Is Humor an Essential Ingredient?

[moira finnie]

Though it is going to take me some time to catch up on the wealth of Ingmar Bergman films that I recorded last night on TCM, a perusal of a few minutes of The Seventh Seal reminded me of something that is rarely discussed. Ingmar Bergman's movies, for all their alleged doom and gloom, (I don't see them that way), have a nice rivulet of humor, irony and a sense of life's paradoxes running through them.


Do you think that to be a great filmmaker of any period, you need humor? Or is that regarded as too frivolous? Who's an example of movie maker who seems to come equipped without humor in his or her hard drive?

Thanks for any replies you might make.

[charliechaplinfan]

Do you mean humour in there films or humour in themselves as a person?

I'm reading Chaplin A Life at the moment by Stephen Weissman, it concentrates on his early days, I've just got to the Essanay days with only a few pages to go. The one thing that has struck me from this telling is that he had very little to be humourous about, I won't bore anyone with tales of his early years but he wasn't a humourous person in early adulthood when he was scoring success with Karno and Sennett and from reading other things about him from sources he could be like that at other points in his life. It's quite ironic really.

Did Griffith have humour, he favoured drama but did make two reel comedies but soon handed them off to Mack Sennett. I can't think of any humourous sequences in the films I've seen. I might be wrong.

I'd be interested to see what others have to say. I don't feel I know as much about classic directors, I'd be interested in what others have to say.

[JackFavell]

I was thinking of Carl Dreyer, but I don't know all of his work. And of course I have no idea what he was like in real life....he could've been the life of the party!

[moira finnie]

I meant humor in films, but if one doesn't have a humorous spark within, that might be tough to project. You're right, though. There is often little to be humorous about in the background of talented and publicly funny people who may have learned to cope by finding something amusing to make things bearable. I guess I see humor as a key trait for gaining perspective on life, so maybe it's something I need to find in movies in order to enjoy them. Some great moviemakers have real humor, reflecting their understanding of storytelling and life's contradictions, including Chaplin, (whose comedy, I thought, became darker and more bittersweet as he aged), Welles, Renoir, and Fellini. I don't think that Griffith's humor is always readily accessible to most of us who haven't grown up in the Victorian age, but Battle Of The Sexes (1928) is wryly amusing, and there are touches of fun (often among the minor characters) in his best known movies.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I find most great dramas to have at least one or two humorous ideas and great comedies to have one serious scene. This is certainly not a written rule, but it's something I often see.

[MichiganJ]

While I would never consider Bergman as "doom and gloom", there are quite a few of his films that have little in the way of humor in them. Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light (my favorite), The Silence, Shame, The Hour of the Wolf (a Bergman horror film), Cries and Whispers, Autumn Sonata, The Serpent's Egg (starring David Carradine), are all films that have little or no humor (that I recall). Persona either.

But Bergman isn't "doom and gloom" and has plenty of comedies to his credit, too. Check out The Magic Flute, which is fun, funny, and may be the best opera ever put on film. There are plenty of smiles in Fanny and Alexander, too, as well as many of Bergman's earlier films (including The Seventh Seal). Don't miss Smiles of a Summer Night (and The Magician has some good laughs, too.)

I don't recall anything funny in any of G.W Pabst's films or any of the films I've seen by Victor Sjörström (but I haven't seen many).

[Mr. Arkadin]

I meant humor in films, but if one doesn't have a humorous spark within, that might be tough to project. You're right, though. There is often little to be humorous about in the background of talented and publicly funny people who may have learned to cope by finding something amusing to make things bearable. I guess I see humor as a key trait for gaining perspective on life, so maybe it's something I need to find in movies in order to enjoy them. Some great moviemakers have real humor, reflecting their understanding of storytelling and life's contradictions, including Chaplin, (whose comedy, I thought, became darker and more bittersweet as he aged)

I always found Chaplin's comedy dark. He always seemed to deal with life's cruelties, and his character The Tramp obviously reflected his impoverished upbringing. I don't know that he changed in terms of his comedy, but he did begin to interject his political views more strongly and I think his films took on a more serious nature as a result. I see his early work as comedic with underlying philosophical tones. His later films are almost the reverse.

[JackFavell]

OK, if we are talking Chaplin here, I would love to bring up A Woman of Paris. It's a very serious movie, with tragic overtones, though I wouldn't necessarily call it a tragedy. However, there is a wonderfully humorous moment between Edna Purviance and Adolph Menjou right in the middle of the film. It serves to point up their bohemian relationship, and also provides a relaxed breathing point in the movie. I find it to be moving in it's own way as well, simply as a human moment. Personally, I think AWOP is one of Chaplin's greatest films, but I think it would not be nearly as poignant if we were not to see this little human and very funny squabble between lovers.

I too, like my comedy mixed with a little drama, and my drama mixed with a little comedy. It makes for a deeper, more satisfying and profound experience. I find it hard to slog through movies (like Dreyer's) that are all serious. I am not saying that Dreyer should have injected humour into his movies, as that would be inappropriate. But I much prefer a "Third Man" to "The Passion of Joan of Arc". Though I can see the latter's greatness, I don't love it.

[charliechaplinfan]

A Woman of Paris is a great non comic silent film, Chaplin added touches to the movie, like displaying the nature of Edna's relationship by having his collars in her dresser. There's no doubting that Chaplin's humour was lighthearted earlier in his career. I think Chaplin is the greatest example of comedy arising out of a difficult childhood, there's also Roscoe Arbuckle and Buster Keaton who fit into that mould.

I don't think I fully appreciated The Seventh Seal when I watched it, Synnove pointed me in the direction of Bergman's comedies, to which I seem better suited.

My preference is for an injection of humour in serious movies, it oftens helps soften the heart towards characters and makes then more vulnerable. There are exceptions.

Dreyer, there are certainly movies that have no humour like Passion of Joan D'Arc and Day of Wrath, which I think are master pieces, although Day of Wrath can be unremitting, there is plenty of humour in Master in the House. Sjostrom too, his greatest work in Sweden The Phantom Carriage doesn't have any humour yet it's impact is great. The examples I can think of films lacking in humour tend to be from the silent era, Perhaps a touch of humour is more important outside of silents or perhaps the influence of the producer versus director became greater.

[Mr. Arkadin]

There are plenty of films that are serious drama and others that are total farce, but I think everyone would agree that's not why we watch movies. We connect with things that touch us personally. Some of those things are are funny, some are pretty dark, but to answer the question is humor an essential ingredient? Not for me.

[mrsl]

Although I haven't seen much of Bergman because the few I have seen are 'doom and gloom' which keeps me away from experiencing the others, I do feel that any drama which keeps the dramatic tension high, needs a touch of humor for exactly what it is called - - - 'comedy relief'. This is needed for the audiences' sake more than to add to the movie because most people need a moment or two of relaxation while being riveted to 'the edge of their seats'. I didn't care at all, for The Seventh Seal, and I found Fanny and Alexander to be terribly boring and filled with foolish people not worth my time. When you don't learn to care about the characters right off from the beginning, the movie causes a huge loss of interest for me.

Anne

[Birdy]

I can't comment on most of the directors discussed here because if I've seen their movies, it was only once and I've blocked them out if they were too serious. I tend to prefer the frivolous 30's comedy but, on the flip, I like a pre-code with a little humor and partying and don't mind a suicide thrown in. Regarding directors, I find Hitchcock's humor very amusing. You've got to admit, it's hilarious when those birds are chasing people down. (Yes, I am a little demented.) My favorites of his are the earlier ones, though, such as The Lady Vanishes. That's probably because I love character actors, though, and always find them amusing.
B

[Ollie]

...Synnove pointed me in the direction of...

This is what is great about this forum. Getting so many titles suggested to me that end up being favorites, and titles I might have never noticed, never found or had bypassed.

[charliechaplinfan]

Yes it is a great thing about this forum, we increase each other's knowledge and enjoyment of film.

[ChiO]

CCF said:

Dreyer, there are certainly movies that have no humour like Passion of Joan D'Arc and Day of Wrath, which I think are master pieces, although Day of Wrath can be unremitting, there is plenty of humour in Master in the House.

As well as in THE PARSON'S WIDOW and, although dark, moments of THEY CAUGHT THE FERRY.

But is "humor" an essential ingredient? For a great filmmaker: probably "yes" if one thinks of "humor" as including the ability to see human folly and run with it. For a great film: not for me. (I like to think of Dreyer laughing late at night after each day of filming ORDET.)