Anatomy of a Murder

[CineMaven]

Hmmmm...food for thought, definitely.

[mrsl]

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Yes, a lot of food for thought, however, I always doubted if Barney actually hurt Lee or if it was her hubby that did the damage. I felt that she flirted just a little too much with Barney and hubby finally had enough, and after 'teaching her a lesson', decided to teach Barney a lesson also. My decision is based on the attitude between husband and wife during the movie, and the twisted ending (both hubby and wifey had little or no conscience between them), so it wouldn't have bothered either of them to leave Stewart in the lurch after all his effort on their part.
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[RedRiver]

Preminger doesn't tell us what we're supposed to think of the characters.

True.

All the key roles have just the right actors working in top form.

Also true.

[charliechaplinfan]

I saw this thread, I'd never seen the film before but I did have a copy waiting to be viewed, so without reading your comments I watched it and this is my first impressions.

Firstly, I love James Stewart but I also love Ben Gazzara and George C Scott so to have them all in the same film with the lovely Lee Remick and Eve Arden was a joy. I think Ben Gazzara is an actor who doesn't give much away and as Manion he didn't give much away. My instinct was that a man who had murdered a man who had viciously raped his wife had a reason, perhaps not in law. The one I really doubted was Lee Remick, I think she did play up to Barney Quill but that's not an excuse for rape or did she go all the way with him and then get frightened when her husband found out and her husband beat her. Did her husband encourage her to play up to other men because he enjoyed letting his temper go? Anything is possible with them but they do seem pretty perfect together, if extrordinarily volatile.

What struck me was what was discussed on screen, watching this film from 60 years ago and being used to hopping through timelines of film and courtroom dramas like a grashopper. I was still shocked to hear Jimmy Stewart mention panties, ejaculation, spermatezoa etc and it must have been pretty forward in it's day.

I loved the film, I'd watch it again. Ben Gazzara and Lee Remick made the perfect if somewhat volatile couple.

[RedRiver]

Stewart was almost always good. Usually excellent. But this is REAL Jimmy Stewart. One of those vehicles that suits his style and talent so well it could have been written for him. Like the great Capra films and HARVEY, this is a role that displays the depth this outstanding actor could achieve with the right material.

[ChiO]

CCF wrote:
My instinct was that a man who had murdered a man who had viciously raped his wife had a reason, perhaps not in law. The one I really doubted was Lee Remick, I think she did play up to Barney Quill but that's not an excuse for rape or did she go all the way with him and then get frightened when her husband found out and her husband beat her. Did her husband encourage her to play up to other men because he enjoyed letting his temper go? Anything is possible with them but they do seem pretty perfect together, if extrordinarily volatile.

You got me to thinking (so it's all your fault).

That sly Preminger presents an extremely entertaining human drama masquerading as a courtroom drama (perhaps an homage to his grandfather, a Talmudic scholar; his father, a lawyer; and, himself, a law school graduate). Beyond the entertainment, he may be asking some profound, inter-related, questions: How do we react to persons based on limited information? Do we ever really know a person?

Our views of characters (the Manions, McCarthy, Pilant, Quill) change as the movie progresses and we get more information. But with more information, we may know them even less.

As a lawyer, I've had to learn that people aren't just good or just bad. People are many things. -- Paul Biegler

Can it be mere coincidence that Remick's character is named "Laura"?

[charliechaplinfan]

Ah, no I think it more than coincidence that her name was Laura, she is another female who captivates men as Laura herself does, even perhaps getting men to do things to stay around her. I imagine this Laura hasn't had a great upbringing, she lives on her allure. If Biegler had wanted payment in kind instead of a promisery note I'm quite sure she'd have paid him. And Biegler is attracted to her and knows she's quite capable of leading that man up the garden path. He takes a great risk on this couple, he can tell that everything is perhaps not as it has been told. And Manion, he never, ever looks like a man who might be facing a life sentence or even a death penalty, he feels assured by the reason he killed Barney Quill or at least the reason he gave for killing Barney Quill. Right until Pilant brought the panties to court I wasn't convinced of the rape story. I'm still not convinced by the rape story, I felt she was quite capable of crying rape after the event, after Manion had beat her up. Laura didn't carry a lot of sympathy with me but Manion, strangely did, even though he did the killing.

I loved George C Scott but how did Laura or mary Pilant restrain themselves from smacking him in the chops.

I definetly watch again because these are only my first impressions and I have the imperssion that this is a very multilayered movie.

What's people's thoughts on the couple, do you see them growing old together? Or growing apart? They seem to take the whole incidence as just a consequence of Laura being attractive and a little drunk, one of those things that might just happen again.

[JackFavell]

She doesn't at any time act like a rape victim. She doesn't seem particularly upset, or even surprised that it happened. I find that last part very difficult to take, that she pretty much expects this behavior from men. Yes, she seems very white trashy, and I find it sad that she expects it.

They remind me of a couple I know, she is a great beauty, he's a good looking boy from a good family. He was majorly into drugs, but she somehow got him off of them, however now they drink like fish. Whenever we see them, they want to go out drinking, and if they don't they are hard to bear, getting into arguments that should NOT be aired in public. When we've gone out, and he seems to be straying mentally, talking to my husband who was his best friend in school, she will go up to the bar and get hit on by whoever she chooses to stand next to,invariably she will behave in a way that draws attention, and then there is the drama of her having to fend off the guy, which always brings hubby's focus back to her... it's her way of remaining desirable to her husband. It's really kind of pathetic. The last time we saw them was years ago, they are still together.

[CineMaven]

My instinct was that a man who had murdered a man who had viciously raped his wife had a reason, perhaps not in law. The one I really doubted was Lee Remick, I think she did play up to Barney Quill but that's not an excuse for rape or did she go all the way with him and then get frightened when her husband found out and her husband beat her. Did her husband encourage her to play up to other men because he enjoyed letting his temper go? Anything is possible with them but they do seem pretty perfect together, if extrordinarily volatile.

Hi Alison. I think Lee Remick’s Laura was very flirtatious, seductive; and didn’t mind getting the ride home. Maybe she even gave Barney a kiss. But ultimately I think Barney didn’t take her “No” for an answer. No, she shouldn’t have gotten in the car with Quill in the first place. But I believe he forced the issue. I don't think she willingly did anything and then tried to back out of it with the lie and cry of "rape." ( A lot of our legislators here do believe that. ) I don’t think Mannion encouraged her to play up to other men just so he could get off on beating them up. I know that couples do enjoy in some kind of sexual role playing in public. Frankly, I think Mannion and Laura's volatility is foreplay for them.

What struck me was what was discussed on screen, watching this film from 60 years ago and being used to hopping through timelines of film and courtroom dramas like a grashopper. I was still shocked to hear Jimmy Stewart mention panties, ejaculation, spermatezoa etc and it must have been pretty forward in it's day.

I’m still taken aback by this frank talk. Whoa! And some of it coming out of Jimmy "Aww shucks" Stewart's mouth!! Why, what must Beaulah Bondi think?

* * * * * * * * * * *

That sly Preminger presents an extremely entertaining human drama masquerading as a courtroom drama (perhaps an homage to his grandfather, a Talmudic scholar; his father, a lawyer; and, himself, a law school graduate). Beyond the entertainment, he may be asking some profound, inter-related, questions: How do we react to persons based on limited information? Do we ever really know a person?

I’m thinking of a conversation about "THE STRANGER" over in the Noir section at TCM-City; that perhaps you never can really know a person. But you know what, if that person is truthful in telling you and showing you about themselves...you CAN know them. I loved this human drama wrapped in the blanket of a courtroom drama. I love the courtroom drama genre, myself. What a conundrum you present ChiO: The more you know the less you know.........

Can it be mere coincidence that Remick's character is named "Laura"?

Ah, no I think it more than coincidence that her name was Laura, she is another female who captivates men as Laura herself does, even perhaps getting men to do things to stay around her...

A rose by any other name would...be LAURA!



* * * * * * * * * * *

I imagine this Laura hasn't had a great upbringing, she lives on her allure. If Biegler had wanted payment in kind instead of a promisery note I'm quite sure she'd have paid him. And Biegler is attracted to her and knows she's quite capable of leading that man up the garden path. He takes a great risk on this couple, he can tell that everything is perhaps not as it has been told.

Stewart was a crafty lawyer. And I don't think he was using an "aww shucks" tactic to lull the big-city-lawyers-from-Lansing into a false sense of security. He wasn't a bungling hick. He was slow...methodical. ( I loved him talking about fish bait with the judge, something the big city lawyers couldn't get into. ) I think she was an “Army brat.” I think if Laura found herself surrounded by men who were interested in women with IQs of 210, and who read “War and Peace” - Laura would take off her spandex pants and start raiding the public libraries. Some women value and play up whatever it is men value and play up about women.

I’ve heard this phrase: “men use love to get sex, and women use sex to get love” or to keep this in classic movie terms, remember the clothes model in the scene after Mary & Crystal have their fight?

( “Zips up the back and no bones.”- Clothes Model in “The Women.” )

* * * * * * * * * * *

...Right until Pilant brought the panties to court I wasn't convinced of the rape story. I'm still not convinced by the rape story, I felt she was quite capable of crying rape after the event, after Manion had beat her up. Laura didn't carry a lot of sympathy with me but Manion, strangely did, even though he did the killing.

I believed Laura was a flirt, but I believe her story. I see Mannion doing a lot of prison time in the future.

I loved George C Scott but how did Laura or mary Pilant restrain themselves from smacking him in the chops.

Ha! Alison, he did need a sock in the jaw. George C. was great in this. He was very threatening, intimidating and more judgmental than just being a prosecuting attorney trying to win a case. Maybe sexually violent himself. Sheesh...Up close...right in their face. Brother!

* * * * * * * * * * *

What's people's thoughts on the couple, do you see them growing old together? Or growing apart? They seem to take the whole incidence as just a consequence of Laura being attractive and a little drunk, one of those things that might just happen again.

I don’t see this couple lasting. Mannion will eventually, in a jealous rage, kill Laura. He will be court-martialled and put into Leavenworth for thirty years. It’s much too much heat. But then I should re-think this based on Wendy’s experience:

They remind me of a couple I know, she is a great beauty, he's a good looking boy from a good family. He was majorly into drugs, but she somehow got him off of them, however now they drink like fish. Whenever we see them, they want to go out drinking, and if they don't they are hard to bear, getting into arguments that should NOT be aired in public. When we've gone out, and he seems to be straying mentally, talking to my husband who was his best friend in school, she will go up to the bar and get hit on by whoever she chooses to stand next to,invariably she will behave in a way that draws attention, and then there is the drama of her having to fend off the guy, which always brings hubby's focus back to her... it's her way of remaining desirable to her husband. It's really kind of pathetic. The last time we saw them was years ago, they are still together.

Yikes! Sounds like a “Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice” kind of swinging swapping 1960’s couple. Some couples have a different definition of foreplay and jealousy and keeping one’s partner interested. It can sometimes go too far. But then again your acquaintances are still married. But truly, deeply...how happy are they? Breaking in a new partner for these games can be tough as one gets older. So might as well stay together. That'd be too much work for this here Ravin' Maven.

[JackFavell]

Maven, To me the couple I know seem terribly unhappy. I personally don't like them, because for them, drinking is a sport. I don't keep up, and I don't want to constantly be reminded that I should when it's their problem in the first place. I find them terribly unpleasant to be around. All that said with my avatar staring me in the face!

[CineMaven]

There's a difference between what Moreau is doing...and "The Days 0f Wine & Roses" couple you guys know. Next time...turn down their invitation. Don't do what you don't want to do. Keep Moreau up there.

[JackFavell]

We actually haven't seen them in about 6 years, it just got too uncomfortable. I'm keeping jeanne up there! She makes me feel good. And bad.

[CineMaven]

We actually haven't seen them in about 6 years, it just got too uncomfortable.

Good for you, Wendy!

I'm keeping jeanne up there! She makes me feel good. And bad.

...Oooh la la!!

[RedRiver]

From Preminger's LAURA to Mrs. Rob Petrie. Boy, that's a stretch!

[moira finnie]

Whoa, this is one lively thread!

Aside from trying to analyze the Mannion's marriage (and I think your analyses are pretty close to the bull's eye), I only care about two things in Anatomy of a Murder:



1.) Does Maida Rutledge (Eve Arden) ever get a typewriter where the "p" and "f" don't stick so she can stop typing "arty of the irst art" on legal documents?
2.) Does she ever get paid in anything but fish?

I fear that "no" is going to be the answer, though Maida clearly sticks around because her co-workers make her smile.