Noir Alley

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ElCid
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by ElCid »

Dargo wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:29 pm
Thompson wrote: January 15th, 2023, 8:05 pm ...Mitchum wasn’t smokin’ no left handers you are right ElCid but he had that reputation and he looked kinda stoned to me in the movie.
Whacha talkin' 'bout here, Thompson?!

Heck, Mitchum ALWAYS looked like he was stoned in just about every movie he was ever in!

(...that was just his natural expression, dude)

;)
I agree - part of his cinematic appeal. :smiley_cheers:
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jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

ElCid wrote: January 15th, 2023, 4:07 pm
jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 15th, 2023, 2:46 pm
ElCid wrote: January 15th, 2023, 12:03 pm James. Thanks for your comments re: why it has noir elements. I watched, but did not hear Eddie explain why he thought it was noir. I think another noir element was that it was kind of "dark" in many settings, especially the night time driving scenes.
Liked that Eddie explained that it was filmed in Transylvania Co., NC, but the city location apparently was in Asheville (Buncombe Co.), note Asheville Pharmacy in a couple of scenes. Major city in Transylvania Co. is Brevard. No vampires.
I actually have a 45 RPM record of Mitchum singing "The Ballad of Thunder Road." The reverse has him singing "My Honey's Lovin' Arms."
Yes, I did look at the cars quite closely. Interesting, especially the '55 to '57 models.
Overall, I think it rates highly as a very interesting and entertaining movie, but then Mitchum fails to entertain.
Eddie's after the film comments has a political tone related to overreach by the Federal government as it relates to regulations, taxes and a over burdensome Federal government, that benefited the rising corporate America while hurting mom and pop types businesses. Note that the moonshiners that Mitchum's family was associated with made a first class product. I think that is important since it supports the POV that these moonshiners were not hurting anyone. There has been other movies where the Feds crackdown on moonshiners but they were sell crap that could hurt someone or even kill them. Those type of moonshiners should be shutdown, but mom and pop businesses that make a first rate product and don't sell to minors; like I said, these were decent Christians folks.
James, not sure where you got the above from. They were not decent Christian folks, but rather hypocrites. Remember, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Therefore, they were stealing. If other alcoholic beverage producers had to pay taxes, then everyone producing should.
Not sure where you get government overreach from and other burdens from the federal government. US government had taxed alcohol since nation founded. The Congress (every one of them) determined they would tax alcohol, just as they taxed imports, other products and eventually incomes. Producing moonshine was not a mom and pop business, but an illegal activity. They did NOT want to pay taxes on it or comply with purity standards. All mom and pop businesses are taxed and always have been.
As for "first class product," moonshine in that period was notorious for impurities, lead poisoning and many other problems. Almost all moonshiners used lead to solder all the pieces together and the water came straight out of streams and rivers with no checks for impurities. No telling how much rust and other nasty things got into the moonshine. Not to mention additives to make it taste better or go down "smoother." It may have been clear, but was far from pure.
So, they were hurting a lot of people potentially and depriving the various governments of legal revenue which resulted in other people paying higher taxes. Including all other mom and pop businesses
It was a way to make money without paying taxes on it and to charge a high price.
A very good, very entertaining movie, but pure Hollywood fiction. :smiley_cheers:
This was a movie, not a documentary.
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ElCid
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by ElCid »

jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 16th, 2023, 10:48 am
ElCid wrote: January 15th, 2023, 4:07 pm
jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 15th, 2023, 2:46 pm

Eddie's after the film comments has a political tone related to overreach by the Federal government as it relates to regulations, taxes and a over burdensome Federal government, that benefited the rising corporate America while hurting mom and pop types businesses. Note that the moonshiners that Mitchum's family was associated with made a first class product. I think that is important since it supports the POV that these moonshiners were not hurting anyone. There has been other movies where the Feds crackdown on moonshiners but they were sell crap that could hurt someone or even kill them. Those type of moonshiners should be shutdown, but mom and pop businesses that make a first rate product and don't sell to minors; like I said, these were decent Christians folks.
James, not sure where you got the above from. They were not decent Christian folks, but rather hypocrites. Remember, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Therefore, they were stealing. If other alcoholic beverage producers had to pay taxes, then everyone producing should.
Not sure where you get government overreach from and other burdens from the federal government. US government had taxed alcohol since nation founded. The Congress (every one of them) determined they would tax alcohol, just as they taxed imports, other products and eventually incomes. Producing moonshine was not a mom and pop business, but an illegal activity. They did NOT want to pay taxes on it or comply with purity standards. All mom and pop businesses are taxed and always have been.
As for "first class product," moonshine in that period was notorious for impurities, lead poisoning and many other problems. Almost all moonshiners used lead to solder all the pieces together and the water came straight out of streams and rivers with no checks for impurities. No telling how much rust and other nasty things got into the moonshine. Not to mention additives to make it taste better or go down "smoother." It may have been clear, but was far from pure.
So, they were hurting a lot of people potentially and depriving the various governments of legal revenue which resulted in other people paying higher taxes. Including all other mom and pop businesses
It was a way to make money without paying taxes on it and to charge a high price.
A very good, very entertaining movie, but pure Hollywood fiction. :smiley_cheers:
This was a movie, not a documentary.
Exactly. You seemed to be making a lengthy statement that the government was overreaching and hurting the mom and pop bootleggers. In addition, they were doing it partially to advance the interests of big corporations. While not recognizing that it was a potentially hazardous product due to lack of any real quality controls or product safety.
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jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

ElCid wrote: January 16th, 2023, 2:21 pm
jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 16th, 2023, 10:48 am
ElCid wrote: January 15th, 2023, 4:07 pm

James, not sure where you got the above from. They were not decent Christian folks, but rather hypocrites. Remember, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Therefore, they were stealing. If other alcoholic beverage producers had to pay taxes, then everyone producing should.
Not sure where you get government overreach from and other burdens from the federal government. US government had taxed alcohol since nation founded. The Congress (every one of them) determined they would tax alcohol, just as they taxed imports, other products and eventually incomes. Producing moonshine was not a mom and pop business, but an illegal activity. They did NOT want to pay taxes on it or comply with purity standards. All mom and pop businesses are taxed and always have been.
As for "first class product," moonshine in that period was notorious for impurities, lead poisoning and many other problems. Almost all moonshiners used lead to solder all the pieces together and the water came straight out of streams and rivers with no checks for impurities. No telling how much rust and other nasty things got into the moonshine. Not to mention additives to make it taste better or go down "smoother." It may have been clear, but was far from pure.
So, they were hurting a lot of people potentially and depriving the various governments of legal revenue which resulted in other people paying higher taxes. Including all other mom and pop businesses
It was a way to make money without paying taxes on it and to charge a high price.
A very good, very entertaining movie, but pure Hollywood fiction. :smiley_cheers:
This was a movie, not a documentary.
Exactly. You seemed to be making a lengthy statement that the government was overreaching and hurting the mom and pop bootleggers. In addition, they were doing it partially to advance the interests of big corporations. While not recognizing that it was a potentially hazardous product due to lack of any real quality controls or product safety.
You assumed incorrectly, yet again. My points related to the points MITCHUM was making in the film. MITCHUM wrote the story. Clearly he wanted to present a romanticized view of these rural folks. This was MITCHUM's vision. I assume there is a relation to him getting busted for pot and his rebel persona. Also Luke was a Korean War veteran. I hope you can understand why MITCHUM would throw that in as well.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by ElCid »

jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:28 pm
ElCid wrote: January 16th, 2023, 2:21 pm
jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 16th, 2023, 10:48 am

This was a movie, not a documentary.
Exactly. You seemed to be making a lengthy statement that the government was overreaching and hurting the mom and pop bootleggers. In addition, they were doing it partially to advance the interests of big corporations. While not recognizing that it was a potentially hazardous product due to lack of any real quality controls or product safety.
You assumed incorrectly, yet again. My points related to the points MITCHUM was making in the film. MITCHUM wrote the story. Clearly he wanted to present a romanticized view of these rural folks. This was MITCHUM's vision. I assume there is a relation to him getting busted for pot and his rebel persona. Also Luke was a Korean War veteran. I hope you can understand why MITCHUM would throw that in as well.
Afraid not. Those are your comments I quoted. I watched the intro and the outro and I did not hear a reference by Eddie to what you stated nor that Mitchum was trying to portray what you stated. That is your misinterpretation.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

ElCid wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:16 pm
jamesjazzguitar wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:28 pm
ElCid wrote: January 16th, 2023, 2:21 pm

Exactly. You seemed to be making a lengthy statement that the government was overreaching and hurting the mom and pop bootleggers. In addition, they were doing it partially to advance the interests of big corporations. While not recognizing that it was a potentially hazardous product due to lack of any real quality controls or product safety.
You assumed incorrectly, yet again. My points related to the points MITCHUM was making in the film. MITCHUM wrote the story. Clearly he wanted to present a romanticized view of these rural folks. This was MITCHUM's vision. I assume there is a relation to him getting busted for pot and his rebel persona. Also Luke was a Korean War veteran. I hope you can understand why MITCHUM would throw that in as well.
Afraid not. Those are your comments I quoted. I watched the intro and the outro and I did not hear a reference by Eddie to what you stated nor that Mitchum was trying to portray what you stated. That is your misinterpretation.
You're saying Eddie never mentions the Feds in his outro? I'll have to see if I can find that on YouTube. My comment about the quality of the moonshine was said by Eddie (and if I imply that, that would be my error). It was a comment Mitchum made in the movie. So yea, my interpretation is that Mitchum added this comment as a way of saying his dad was making a high qualify product.

As for why Mitchum made Luke a Korean War Vet; a way to show that Luke at done his duty. I.e. just another way to show that Luke wasn't a really bad guy. But if you wish to view Luke, his family and all the locals in a binary way as decent \ not decent, go for it. I believe Mitchum was trying to communicate something more nuanced.
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jameselliot
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by jameselliot »

That poster of Thunder Road is hideous. That's supposed to be Mitchum?

In the "Why didn't I know that?" department, I just learned that his sister Julie Mitchum was an actress and played the newspaper reporter in the original House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

A very poorly acted and directed "bootlegger" flick. It seemed like the entire picture was spent with one shots, as if the director did not trust actors exchanging lines in the same shot. Maybe he was right. Robert Mitchum did what he could in his scenes. Robert Mitchum and Gene Berry acquitted themselves well enough. Son James Mitchum did not embarrass himself but he didn’t have much to do, I don’t think a facial muscle moved one iota in all of his scenes. He sure looked like his father. I give a pass to Keely Smith, she was not in her element here, not enough allure to be a believable love interest for Mitchum, and not really an actress, but she was not meant for those things and is not to be picked on (Oh laffite, so chivalrous :) ), she’s a singer and that what she does and she’s a good one.. This was Mitchum’s story, He has been given credit for the screenplay but that is wrong, but he apparently wrote the story (the treatment). He carried the film, obviously, walking around being cool. It was interesting to me that they gave the city crime boss a penchant for classical music but that was an awkward, nearly laughable speech about playing music for the birds outside his window. Later when he is cuffed by the police, he’s listening to (pedantry alert :P ) the famous Spanish Dance #5 “Andaluza” by Granados, a piece that doesn’t fit him. I think he’s more an 1812 Overture kind of guy, haha. I like those super-chromed ’56 Chevys. Lucas’ new car was a ’56 Ford with the fancy flair-out fins. Great cars for a story like this with all the running and all the stunt driving. Neither the story nor the little personal dramas among the characters were forceful enough to really grab me.. I couldn’t get into the Lucas-Francie connection, nor with Roxanne at all. As mentioned, the crime boss was a little entertaining. Lucas’ insistence that Robin not be a runner (along with mom) was a nice touch. All in all though, I’m not sure I would have hung with this if it hadn’t been for Noir Alley.
I had a giddy moment or two when Roxanne and Robin were walking off in the sunset to end the film because I recalled the following exchange between Roxanne and Lucas earlier when R was trying to get romantic:

Lucas: Roxy, why don’t you just find yourself somebody that’ll be content to punch a time clock or plow a field, and have a mess of kids.

Roxanne: I would, if they looked like you.

…keeping in mind
the STRONG family resemblance between Lucas (Robert Mitchum) and Robin. Roxanne loved Lucas who was now dead and it was ludicrous to think she would just suddenly fall for Robin and doing so because of the resemblance, therefore her children would “look like you.” (Lucas) I was hoping the film chose this ending to send the audience a wink, that Roxanne was really in love with the resemblance, that’s all, or something like that. There may have been, however, an indication (in that same conversation cited above) that Roxanne had a little something for Robin too, although I didn’t see much of that elsewhere. She was clearly in love with Lucas and got him killed for it. :( I was still surprised to see the film end that way, Roxanne and Robin going off together.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by Hoganman1 »

Wow! It appears to me that THUNDER ROAD has generated more comments than any other film shown on Noir Alley in quite awhile. I'm glad to see you're all alive and well. Also, I've enjoyed reading your comments. I worried that the demise of TCM Message Boards would put an end to these conversations.
BTW Where is Ms. Wonderly? I haven't seen her on here as yet.
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jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

Hoganman1 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 3:35 pm Wow! It appears to me that THUNDER ROAD has generated more comments than any other film shown on Noir Alley in quite awhile. I'm glad to see you're all alive and well. Also, I've enjoyed reading your comments. I worried that the demise of TCM Message Boards would put an end to these conversations.
BTW Where is Ms. Wonderly? I haven't seen her on here as yet.
Eddie is on a kick to show films that are only lean, often very lightly, in a noir direction. Next week is The Two Mrs. Carrrols (1948). This Bogart \ Stanwyck Warner Bros. film, set in England isn't much of a noir but it has a very good cast. Ok, Bogie is miscast, but with those two as leads the film is worth watching. Also with Alexis Smith, who has the best scene in the film, when a not-too-nice Bogie has to attend a lunch and is introduced to Smith and her mom (well played by Isobel Elsom).
Last edited by jamesjazzguitar on January 18th, 2023, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sue Sue Applegate
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Yes, The Two Mrs. Carrolls is definitely worth a look! I can’t wait to hear what Eddie has to say about it.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by Hibi »

laffite wrote: January 17th, 2023, 12:59 am A very poorly acted and directed "bootlegger" flick. It seemed like the entire picture was spent with one shots, as if the director did not trust actors exchanging lines in the same shot. Maybe he was right. Robert Mitchum did what he could in his scenes. Robert Mitchum and Gene Berry acquitted themselves well enough. Son James Mitchum did not embarrass himself but he didn’t have much to do, I don’t think a facial muscle moved one iota in all of his scenes. He sure looked like his father. I give a pass to Keely Smith, she was not in her element here, not enough allure to be a believable love interest for Mitchum, and not really an actress, but she was not meant for those things and is not to be picked on (Oh laffite, so chivalrous :) ), she’s a singer and that what she does and she’s a good one.. This was Mitchum’s story, He has been given credit for the screenplay but that is wrong, but he apparently wrote the story (the treatment). He carried the film, obviously, walking around being cool. It was interesting to me that they gave the city crime boss a penchant for classical music but that was an awkward, nearly laughable speech about playing music for the birds outside his window. Later when he is cuffed by the police, he’s listening to (pedantry alert :P ) the famous Spanish Dance #5 “Andaluza” by Granados, a piece that doesn’t fit him. I think he’s more an 1812 Overture kind of guy, haha. I like those super-chromed ’56 Chevys. Lucas’ new car was a ’56 Ford with the fancy flair-out fins. Great cars for a story like this with all the running and all the stunt driving. Neither the story nor the little personal dramas among the characters were forceful enough to really grab me.. I couldn’t get into the Lucas-Francie connection, nor with Roxanne at all. As mentioned, the crime boss was a little entertaining. Lucas’ insistence that Robin not be a runner (along with mom) was a nice touch. All in all though, I’m not sure I would have hung with this if it hadn’t been for Noir Alley.
I had a giddy moment or two when Roxanne and Robin were walking off in the sunset to end the film because I recalled the following exchange between Roxanne and Lucas earlier when R was trying to get romantic:

Lucas: Roxy, why don’t you just find yourself somebody that’ll be content to punch a time clock or plow a field, and have a mess of kids.

Roxanne: I would, if they looked like you.

…keeping in mind
the STRONG family resemblance between Lucas (Robert Mitchum) and Robin. Roxanne loved Lucas who was now dead and it was ludicrous to think she would just suddenly fall for Robin and doing so because of the resemblance, therefore her children would “look like you.” (Lucas) I was hoping the film chose this ending to send the audience a wink, that Roxanne was really in love with the resemblance, that’s all, or something like that. There may have been, however, an indication (in that same conversation cited above) that Roxanne had a little something for Robin too, although I didn’t see much of that elsewhere. She was clearly in love with Lucas and got him killed for it. :( I was still surprised to see the film end that way, Roxanne and Robin going off together.


I tried watching it, but it was so badly written and acted I didn't make it past the first 15 mins. Noir Alley sucks lately. (I'd seen it many years ago on network tv).
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Hibi
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Re: Noir Alley

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Sue Sue Applegate wrote: January 17th, 2023, 11:28 pm Yes, The Two Mrs. Carrolls is definitely worth a look! I can’t wait to hear what Eddie has to say about it.
Not in my opinion! Another wasted Noir Alley........
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Well, Hibi. I haven't seen it in a while, so I might just watch the intro. I enjoyed it the first time I saw it, but it has been ages ago.
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Re: Noir Alley

Post by Hibi »

Considering this was the only time, I think, that Bogie and Stanwyck starred in a film together, I thought it was a disappointing effort (standard woman in distress flick). It wasn't awful or anything, just predictable. Reminded me of another film of Bogie's around this time period (also with Alexis Smith) whose title escapes me now.
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