Downton Abbey

[knitwit45]

BOY O BOY O BOY!!!!!!!

[moira finnie]

Lillie (1978) is online at youtube. Francesca Annis was wonderful in this (and other) roles, as can be seen at the playlist below:



I am just catching up with the first two epis of Downton Season 3. What has happened between O'Brien and Thomas? No longer thick as thieves?

[JackFavell]

I'm sorry. I'm so shallow....I loved Edith's gown.

[knitwit45]

beautiful, wasn't it? I thought it much prettier than Mary's.

[JackFavell]

They shamelessly name dropped Patou and Lucile, two of my favorites from that era. Lucile herself was a fascinating woman, sister of Elinor Glyn and survivor of the Titanic. Her story would itself make a good miniseries.

It's no wonder she won out over Patou for Edith's gown, she was a British designer after all (though she had moved to America by 1920), and Patou was mainly known for his sporty, artistic garments and for his stage designs. He would have only been on the scene for a year or so - during the war he left design to enlist and fight in the war, though his 1919 collection was very popular and put him at the forefront of the clothing design industry.

Lucile fashions:




Here are some Patou fashions:

[mrsl]

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Although both very fashionable for the period, I also much preferred Ediths gown over Marys. It just seemed to be so much more classic (not to mention looking a lot more expensive). Thanks for the catchup on the two designers. Other than Coco Chanel I don't know of any designers of any earlier eras.

What a shocker about Lord ultra-sensitive. (almost as bad as Matthew's disdain for the money left to him, from his fiancee's father). I thought he was going to claim he was gay or something like that, but I guess that would be a little more than acceptable in 1920, it's bad enough today. Anyway, I guess I should be glad he was sensitive enough to realize what kind of life Edith would have after a few years.

O'Brien finally realized what a scumbag Thomas is at the end of last season, but I won't say what he did for the folks who are trying to catch up now with seasons 1 & 2.

Could anyone tell what it was that was hidden in Bate's cot? I couldn't tell and I rewound twice, but my T.V. system doesn't have a slow speed, like my old one did.

Does anyone else think the cook lied to Carson about the housekeepers' health in order to relieve his mind and keep him from fretting about her constantly? It looked to me like he had kind of a crush on her, but never reacted to it, especially with his little song after getting the good news.

Knitty: I love NCIS and never miss it. Go ahead and start a thread. I would love to talk about it with you and I'm sure others would too. I'm not sure what you're talking about for sure, unless you mean the death of Ziva's father. I'm anxious to see tomorrow's episode when she is geared up for revenge.
.

[knitwit45]

I kind of wondered about the way Mrs. Patmore answered Mrs. Hughes, also. But then again, the ladies seemed so cheerful, and Mrs. P had most of the technical term "benign something or other". Sir Anthony, I believe, was truly in love with Edith, I think there is more to this story. I think it was marijuana hidden in Mr. Bates cot. The reaction of the guards was pretty scary, wasn't it?

Is it only Monday? Geez Louise, six more days??? Argh.

[Rita Hayworth]

Jack Favell ... I enjoyed looking at those old fashion photos that you posted earlier of Lucille ... I love looking at old photos of any kind. Thanks for sharing it.

[moira finnie]

Re: Bates in Prison
I thought that it might have been a folded knife in Bates' cot--though I kept wondering if that might have been able to fit into crevice in the brick wall, so perhaps it is marijuana.

Did anyone else get dark hints that Bates might actually be guilty of the murder? His choking his cellmate and the seemingly sincere account given by the first Mrs. Bates' chum seem to indicate that there might be another side to his character.


Re: Mrs. Hughes scare
First of all--Mrs. Patmore aka Hannah Hysteria is NOT the person to accompany anyone to the doctor. Yikes, I would have slugged her and told her to wait outside during those visits, but then, Mrs. Hughes is an exceptionally diplomatic and self-controlled person...fortunately for Mrs. P.

I thought that Patmore was trying to convey to Carson the state of Mrs. Hughes' health without completely betraying her friend's confidence. The fact that Mrs. P. and Hughes did not discuss in detail the nature of her problem may also have reflected the diffidence (and unfortunately, shame) surrounding breast cancer and other female diseases at that time.

Perhaps this health scare made Carson realize that the housekeeper is not just his co-worker and confidante, but his best friend/potential helpmate for life. I loved the way that Mrs. Elsie Hughes smiled when she heard him singing "dashing away with a smoothing iron she stole my heart away". Romantic hints abound, though it is entirely credible (if frustrating) that the two may never articulate their feelings aloud.

SPOILER ALERT

Re: Edith's Travails

What was the point of Grantham and his mother's dislike of Edith's Sir Anthony? Their negative feelings toward this wounded older man undermined the union as much if not more than Edith's somewhat desperate longing to love and be loved. Didn't they realize that there were very few men her own age and class for a girl like Edith to choose from in the post-WWI era? Were Grantham and the Dowager Countess so dim that they unconsciously wanted her to be alone and a spinster so she could be on tap to play the "good" daughter for the rest of her life?

Why did Edith have to go through so much pain to get her father to understand her feelings? He is so keen to help her sisters but Edith is always getting neglected or the short end of the stick. Of course, Edith sure got payback for spreading rumors about Mr. Pamuk and her sister Mary in London society, didn't she?

I agree that Edith's elegant wedding dress was much more modern looking and also liked the delicate diamond diadem she wore. Thanks for the interesting background on Lucile the dress designer.

I was concerned that Sir Anthony was not just refusing to yoke Edith to himself, but might also be suicidal. He certainly seems wracked by self-loathing both before and at the wedding, with so much anguish about the pain he was causing Edith. I wonder if he will reappear?

I found myself telling Edith "the useful spinster" that it was only 1920--life's horizons for all women rich and poor were beginning to broaden. It might be a good idea to go to London and live her own life for awhile.

Where is Grantham's sister while her nieces are getting married, almost getting married, and having babies? I figure since Granny helped put the kibosh on her daughter and now her granddaughter's marriages, maybe Rosamund could step in as a dea ex machina to whisk Edith out of the doldrums?

[JackFavell]

You have a great EYE for the storylines, Miss Moira. I love your points, all valid. I myself was wondering if Bates was taking a turn for the worse, perhaps he did do it? And it was most certainly marijuana, on our new bigger TV I got a good look at it when they broadcast at 10 PM.

I was wondering why Sir Anthony was such a bad choice for Edith myself. It seemed almost contrived that whole section with Grantham disapproving. Ive always thought that Edith was far more like Isobel Crawley than members of her own family. I'd like to see her go help Isobel with her social work.

[charliechaplinfan]

I can't say, all very good points though.

I always thought that Mrs Patmore is at odds with what I'd have expected of a cook in a large house like Downton, too nice and scatty. I do like Edith, she is the most believable of the sisters for me.

Grantham, a nice but somewhat led character at times, in these earlier episodes he seems even more so.

[knitwit45]

I was wondering why Sir Anthony was such a bad choice for Edith myself. It seemed almost contrived that whole section with Grantham disapproving. Ive always thought that Edith was far more like Isobel Crawley than members of her own family. I'd like to see her go help Isobel with her social work.

Oh, dear, talk about NEVER being happy...I know what Isobel is doing is very important, but the poor woman is clueless. While these women sit thru her "useful" lectures about sewing a straight seam, all they really want is a hot meal. People have to have their most basic needs met before they are willing to learn anything other than trust.

I also wondered about Sir Anthony, and if he is suicidal. I think there is a whole story arc right there. Maybe Edith will be a help to him in some way...or not. geez, it's only TUESDAY!!! Sigh.

[JackFavell]

That's why I think Edith might be useful. She has a caring heart and a basic understanding of people, except in her own family. At the farm she was energetic and helpful, and she really connected with the farm people, except the wife of course. And then there was the hospital. So I think she might bring Isobel some down to earth common sense in dealing with these wayward young folk, plus it would get her mind off of her own problems.

[mrsl]

.
More thoughts after reading all of yours. Isobel is fine for social work, but I would hate to see Edith end up in that kind of life. She's still young enough to find happiness - - maybe SHE should go to America's west and find herself a rowdy cowboy!

If my neighbors and friends had heard some of the fights between my first husband and me, they would also have come away with a terrible image of him (although in my ex'es case, they would have been right). Bates might just be becoming a part of the prison attitude of 'watch your back'. Anyone who was ever married to a witch like Mrs. Bates or a jerk like my ex, knows what it's like to live with that sort of person, and arguments are often just a regular fact of life.

I wonder if Mrs. Patmore and Mrs. Hughes were giggling because of the fact that they put one over on Carson, or if the prognosis really is a good one.

Another doubt about the Sir Anthony thing is that age difference was not really that important during that era (at least for the man to be older by quite a lot). Money, title, and good reputation were the main points to be observed. Lack of money and title are the main reasons the family objected to the youngest (can't recall her name) daughter's marriage to the chauffeur, wasn't it?

One thing I don't like about Mrs. Patmore is how she keeps holding Daisy down and not letting her learn and practice new things in the kitchen. If Daisy was older I could imagine Mrs P. worrying about losing her job to the new upstart, but Daisy is just starting out and she (Daisy), knows it perfectly well.

I DVR many of my network shows and often watch them three or four at a time on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, but I can't keep away from Downton. Even though I watch it on Sunday night, I usually watch again on Monday to catch things I missed the first time around. I just don't have the patience to wait for 3 or 4 weeks to pass before watching.

Quote of the week: I REFUSE TO DRESS A CHAUFFEUR!!!

[Sue Sue Applegate]

I don't know why I haven't seen this thread before, but I am in heaven reading everyone's comments! The lovely Lucille photos are beautiful.

I loved Edith's dress, but when they showed a truncated wedding for Mary and Matthew, and then Edith's turn at the altar came, and they were revealing almost every moment of the walk up the aisle in slow motion, I just felt every step was one foot closer to disaster. I kept thinking someone would reveal how Thomas and Sir Anthony had been revealed in flagrante delicto, and I kept trying to envision how they would phrase such a scenario in the 20's as a formal objection in a huge society wedding.

And I kept feeling that the first Mrs. Bates' dear chum was lying up her petticoats just to hurt Anna. But then we begin to see the nastier nature of Mr. Bates even though he must defend himself against the seamier side of the general public. I do hope they are reconciled and that he didn't murder the first Mrs. Bates. It was just the sexiest moment in the whole series when Bates said that phrase about "having your way with me" to Anna the evening of their wedding. Oh, my! Swoon...Swoon...Swoon.

Did anyone sense that Shirley Maclaine's initial arrival scene was a little curt and contrived? I fell it could have been a little softer, but I loved how she kept eating and kept everyone seated while she savored every morsel at dinner. That was a true Shirley moment!