Noir Films

[JackFavell]

June could have been so evil!

[Dewey1960]

Moira, you excluded one of my favorites from the gritty side of the street:
Jean Gillie in DECOY. Despite being her only dip into the noir pool (she died
not too long after the film was released), she most definitely made an
impression.
[youtube][/youtube]

[JackFavell]

I'm so glad you got to see Journal of a Crime, kingrat. It was very dark - there was some question as to who the murderer was, then the way she descended into madness and despondency due to her refusal to admit the crime.... I felt some definite noir vibes!

The only other thirties film I can think of like this one is Kay Francis' Confession, though to me that one plays more as a woman's picture.

[moira finnie]

Moira, I'd love to see the films you mention, most of which I don't know. Femme fatale films usually aren't what I consider women's films. In The Spiral Staircase, which I like quite a lot, Dorothy McGuire has the central role, with Kent Smith and George Brent playing the parts which are assigned to women in the standard male noir. Because women's films often have melodramatic plots (ya think?), they can move toward noir depending on the style of the director, the cameraman, and the times.

Actually, I don't regard most of the movies I mentioned (except for two of the Claire Trevor ones and Adele Rogers in Armored Car Robbery) as femme fatale movies, but I'm sure that others would disagree. They seem like women caught up in something they hadn't intended to happen. They can be sort of morally unconscious at times, which is fascinating--though I wouldn't want to live with them. I like the melodramatic aspects of these movies, (real life is way more melodramatic than most of us would ever want to dwell on), but like these stories more when I can feel some compassion for at least one of the poor saps in them.

To me, the unreality of the Clifford Odets dialogue is like brown gravy poured over everything in Clash by Night, covering Lang, Stanwyck, Ryan, Monroe, etc. Most people like this film better than I do.

FYI: I think you and I are in the minority on this one. Paul Douglas and J. Carroll Naish usually elicit instant empathy in me, but despite their presence, I think Clash by Night is one of the worst Clifford Odets movies ever. I like your comment that the "dialogue is like brown gravy poured over everything." I usually like Robert Ryan, but his poor, insecure "tough guy" projectionist is just a pathetic fool, too wounded and childish to think past his next roll in the hay.

Dewey!
Sorry about failing to mention Jean Gillie's shining moment in Decoy, but I like Jean in that entertaining ride on the raw side, though I enjoy her more in other movies, and mentioned her yesterday in regard to The Gentle Sex elsewhere on the boards. I find her character in Decoy pretty amusing, if completely unreal. The same for Leslie Brooks in Blonde Ice (1948). Both Jack Bernhard movies are great fun, but the women are just psychos with great wardrobes, tons of attitude and have all the human warmth of a baby crocodile. But then, who watches movies for reality?

[Dewey1960]

...psychos with great wardrobes...
Moira, that's a fantastic line! In fact I'm going to use it (I'll credit you somewhow)
next Monday night in the film noir class I'm teaching this summer. We watched
DECOY this past Monday and the class was completely flipped out by her!

[ChiO]

Re: TOUCH OF EVIL

kingrat wrote:
You and your wife both get framed for murder? That's a noir nightmare.

My memory could be (strike that) probably is slipping, but if "you" refers to Hestion (Vargas), I don't recall a murder that he's framed for. He accuses Quinlan of framing Sanchez, which provides a paradox (he can't stop the framing of his own wife) and irony (Sanchez is guilty).

What did not hold up well for me was Janet Leigh's performance. The part is poorly written--I mean there are dumb blondes and then there is this totally clueless blonde--and she showed only a fraction of the skill Hitchcock and Frankenheimer drew out of her later on.

A reason to rewatch. Leigh (Suzy Vargas) is definitely not dumb. Clueless? I prefer "out of her element", which is one of the points. She is literally out of her element. It's a border town ("border" being the operative term providing several meanings literally and symbolically). She's forced to be separate from her new husband. She doesn't really know what her husband does. And she's extremely strong and independent...which then allows her to put herself unwittingly in harm's way. One can also see her character to be in juxtaposition with the other strong female in the movie, Tanya (Dietrich) Virgin tied to her supposedly incorruptible husband cop vs. Whore tied to the corrupt cop.

As for Dennis Weaver's atrocious overacting as the night desk clerk, part of my noir nightmare would include having to watch his endless scene with Charlton Heston over and over again. Because Weaver is a talented actor, I can only assume this is what Welles wanted.

Another reason to rewatch. A brilliant improvisation elicited by Welles. He expresses sexual fear and loathing (lots of that throughout the film). The Vargases are straight forward; every move "the night man" makes is on a diagonal. And he is "the night man", even though he's there during the day waiting for "the day man" (Godot?) who never arrives. He is the bridge between reality and nightmare.

How does one survive a nightmare? One way is to laugh nervously with hope that it will go away. Welles loads the film with comedic elements that are out-and-out hilarious (e.g., Uncle Joe's toupee), and others where the laughter is a defense mechanism (e.g., the night man). Given the overall tone of the film, the act of laughing adds an unsettling feature to the whole experience.

Why couldn't he make a good film after CITIZEN KANE?

[Mr. Arkadin]

Welles films are indeed loaded with humor and sometimes it takes more than one or two viewings for his works to reveal themselves.

I don't have much time to post these days, but perhaps a look back through the Best Noir Contest thread, where it fought to the finish with Out of the Past might reveal some of its magic (as the second best noir of all time, of course ):

http://silverscreenoasis.com/oasis3/vie ... =51&t=2296

[ChiO]

as the second best noir of all time, of course

Agreed, but the Noir gods conspired to keep GUN CRAZY out of the running.

Yes, those archived threads point out numerous virtues of TOUCH OF EVIL, many of them posted by our resident Duke of the Dark, Dewey (ignore his posts in "And the Winner Is" wherein the demented Duke demonstrates his nefarious namecalling no-goodnik-ness-osity...I still await his public recanting).

Why, just last night, I watched IT'S ALL TRUE via projected DVD that beat the heck out of my ratty ol' VHS version. While not noir on its face (though the "Four Men on a Raft" segment can come mighty close), the back story of its making and the impact it had on Welles' career is too noir to be believed...but it's all true. So we have segments of an unfinished film, one I'd rank at about #13 or so in his filmography, and it's still a work of genius.

Some guys have all the luck.

[Rita Hayworth]

Double Indemnity is pure noir, not a woman's film at all, except, and this could be a big exception, Stanwyck has so much power and energy. On the other hand, Leave Her to Heaven feels more like a cross between noir and a woman's film with a male protagonist.

Double Indemnity is one of my favorites Noir Films because Stanwyck did an impressive performance that left me speechless and I do agree with Kingrat's assessment that her performance in this film was pure power and energy.

[JackFavell]

Lured is going to be on tonight and although it has it's flaws, I really enjoy it. It's got a touch of everything, including noir, and was directed by Douglas Sirk. It's playing tonight at 1:30 AM ET.

[CineMaven]

Oh boy...this is what I get for not visiting the dark side of the oasis more often.

* Dewey, you're teaching a class?
* Moira, I loved your list of lethal ladies films (even if you don't think they're strictly by-the-book-noirs).
* Kingrat, I watched about ten minutes of "SCORPIO" as Alain Delon (he IS handsome, isn't he?) gives chase to Burt Lancaster. Couldn't take much more than that.

[Mr. Arkadin]

Dewey, you're teaching a class?

Mr. D. has taught at Stanford University for several years now, but often lectures here for a smaller fee. You did pay at the door didn't you?

[ChiO]

I thought is was pay as you eggs-it.

Oh, well(es) -- back to my Noir for Dummies book.

Speaking of which, anyone nabbed this one yet? Directors on the Edge: Outliers in Hollywood (James Ursini, 2011). Apparently the focus is on Hugo Haas, Reginald LeBorg, Ida Lupino, Gerd Oswald, and Edgar G. Ulmer. Quite the line-up.