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BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

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RedRiver
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby RedRiver » August 18th, 2011, 8:58 am

Where in bloody Hell are my posts going? I must be clicking and running too fast. I click SUBMIT. I see something appear on the screen. I move on. Should I slow down a little?

At the risk of repeating myself, I wouldn't call the 1941 "Falcon" more noir than the original. It's just better. SATAN MET A LADY? That's pretty much fluff. It's hard to take any of that seriously. You can drive yourself crazy analysing this concept. I usually call it all "crime drama."

RedRiver
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby RedRiver » August 18th, 2011, 9:01 am

If you'll indulge me in a scientific experiment, this is a test. I want to see if this posts successfully.

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MichiganJ
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby MichiganJ » August 18th, 2011, 9:18 am

RedRiver,

After clicking SUBMIT wait until you get the "your post has successfully posted" (or whatever it says) before clicking away and you should be okay. Just like the great poetry of "click it or ticket" remember "to click and run is no fun", or, perhaps, "to submit and wait is really great". (I think I've stumbled on a new vocation.)
"Let's be independent together." Dr. Hermey DDS

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JackFavell
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby JackFavell » August 18th, 2011, 9:57 am

After clicking SUBMIT wait until you get the "your post has successfully posted" (or whatever it says) before clicking away and you should be okay. Just like the great poetry of "click it or ticket" remember "to click and run is no fun", or, perhaps, "to submit and wait is really great". (I think I've stumbled on a new vocation.)


You're good. Real good. :D

Gary J.
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby Gary J. » August 18th, 2011, 10:03 am

MichiganJ wrote:In regards to The Maltese Falcon (1941), if the lighting is flat and the overall film is not visually interesting, what makes this Noir while the original 1931 version and 1936's Satan Met a Lady are not generally considered Noir?


You answered your own question, MichiganJ. It's not. FALCON is a great detective film that has more in common with the crime thrillers of the 30's than film noir of the 40's. Where lovers of noir get tripped up is that this film has many of the components that would be used later to create great noir. The plot is sufficiently twisty enough to be about one thing when it is really about another. There is a disparate group of thugs, a duplicitous woman and an ambiguous detective. All of these elements would later be elevated into films that contain more surreal and sinister heights, but that is not this movie. The gang of thieves are more greedy than homicidal. Bogart's Spade is more menacing than all of them combined. He toys with Greenstreets' hired gun and then quickly dispatches him when the time has come. In fact, Spade is always in control of the plot. He is never taken in by Astor's femme fatale but, in a nice twist, is amoral enough to enjoy her company for the time being.

After the war these same detectives would act just like Spade, have the same swagger and funny quips, but more often than not be in over their heads with what they are dealing with. But none of that could had occurred if there wasn't a prototype to base noir on, which in this case was the hard-boiled films of the Thirties - of which Huston made a classic example of.
Gary J.
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kingrat
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby kingrat » August 18th, 2011, 11:58 am

Gary, that seems like the best overview of THE MALTESE FALCON that I've read.

RedRiver
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby RedRiver » August 18th, 2011, 1:52 pm

In the book, Spade and Brigid were pretty much in love. It was clear that his final action caused them both considerable pain. I think we're meant to infer that from the movie as well. It's not as clear as it might be. But to fill in the gaps would restrain the breathtaking pace, the film's strongest asset. The love story is abridged for the sake of expediency.

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JackFavell
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby JackFavell » August 18th, 2011, 3:16 pm

Thank you, Red! I have always thought that too, that he was more invested in Brigid than just as a case. I did read the book but too long ago to remember details.

In an informal poll either here or at the other website, I think I was the only one who thought that Spade was in love with her. If he doesn't care, then it's just a textbook on how to catch criminals. There is a heartbreaking depth to him sending her up the river if he cared for her, and I am positive this is included in Bogart's performance.
Last edited by JackFavell on August 18th, 2011, 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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knitwit45
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby knitwit45 » August 18th, 2011, 4:58 pm

I've been hanging around Facebook too long...I keep looking for the "like" button :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:
I do think Bogie is in love with Brigid, at least as much as is possible for him to be. He DID get involved with his partner's wife, he IS amoral and tough, and .....Bogie.

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JackFavell
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby JackFavell » August 18th, 2011, 5:04 pm

Thanks for the back-up, knitty. I get nervous standing alone. :D :D :D :D :D

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knitwit45
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby knitwit45 » August 18th, 2011, 5:14 pm

Moe knows her friends....

kingrat
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby kingrat » August 18th, 2011, 6:00 pm

I'm with you on Spade and Brigid. Of course the poor sap falls for the wrong dame, but he's even smarter than she is, see. If he were just exploiting her, then who cares? Brigid has reason to believe she can get away with this.

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knitwit45
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby knitwit45 » August 18th, 2011, 6:03 pm

See, we DO need a 'Like' button! :lol:

RedRiver
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby RedRiver » August 18th, 2011, 6:10 pm

Also in the book, when Gutman pays Spade and some of the money is missing, he forces Brigid to submit to a strip search. It's cold and humiliating, all the more so because they do care for each other. In the movie, she says, "No, Sam. No!" He buys it. But it's clear there's something unspeakable at stake. Swell lot of thieves!

You bet this depth of feeling is evident in Mr. Bogart's presentation. He struggles with the decision. His jaw muscles are so tightly clinched they could snap. But "when a man's partner is killed, he has to do something." The performance that made Bogart a star would forever be his best work.

I love talking abut this masterful piece of filmmaking. It flows smoothly and artfully to a thrilling climax. When it's over, you just sit quietly and say, WOW!

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Mr. Arkadin
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Re: BOGART NOIR on TCM 8/17

Postby Mr. Arkadin » August 19th, 2011, 7:47 pm

kingrat wrote:If he were just exploiting her, then who cares?


Exactly.


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