Crime on film and the Criminals that inspired the writing.

[RedRiver]

This is a comparison of a good movie to a VERY good movie!

I may have to issue a retraction of that statement. These are two VERY, VERY good movies. I watched GUN CRAZY again last night. Phenomenal show. Breathlessly paced, with every moment serving a purpose. This should always be the case. Sadly, it isn't! The artful cinematography is pure and rich. Almost every shot tells us something about motivation, reaction or both. I don't know the name of the cinematographer, but I imagine his work is highly regarded.

This is a thrilling story that gets more intriguing with each passing scene. This, also, should be the standard in filmmaking. This, also, is not! I love the way the kids, in the first moments of the story, are shown so clearly as the adults they will be depicted as later. The unmistakable glasses worn by the future newspaper editor, the "cop-like" jacket of the kid who later becomes sheriff. We'd know these guys anywhere, even 15 years later!

I think I'd like anything with a carnival scene. Hell, I've enjoyed Elvis movies that incorporate that environment! I half expected Joan Crawford to turn up and tell off some snooty townspeople. You tell 'em, Joan! I even like that the main players are not super famous. Peggy Cummins and John Dall are not movie stars. They're real. This simply adds to the tension.

This exceptional "good boy gone bad" story was directed by Joseph H. Lewis. It's one of those rare movies that can't be criticized. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with it.

[ChiO]

The artful cinematography is pure and rich. Almost every shot tells us something about motivation, reaction or both. I don't know the name of the cinematographer, but I imagine his work is highly regarded.

Are you playing a little prank, you scamp? Probably the best known movie that Russell Harlan shot was a little number called RED RIVER.

Some others:

THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD
RIOT IN CELL BLOCK 11
BLACKBOARD JUNGLE
RIO BRAVO
DAY OF THE OUTLAW
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD

[RedRiver]

Excellent! No, I really didn't know this. I know directors, writers. Don't read a lot about the techies! This RED RIVER sounds familiar, though. Cowboy show, isn't it?

[RedRiver]

You know something? Have we talked about BADLANDS on this thread? Terence Malick's disturbing, provocative "psychos on the run" story fits the topic with room to spare. Based, to one degree or another, on the real-life killing spree of Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend, the film is exciting, tragic and well executed. An almost unbelievably young Martin Sheen heads the cast, partnered with the talented Cissy Spaceck. The use of color and western landscape brings depth to the picture, making this an impressive package overall.

A unique, intriguing movie.

[Western Guy]

BADLANDS is a great film! Martin Sheen has never been better as "Kit" and, along with her role in CARRIE, this provided Sissy Spacek with her finest hour. Then you've giot the incomparable Warren Oates. As you say,RedRiver, loosely based on the murderous (and mercifully short) career of lowlife Charles Starkweather (whom Stephen King admitted gave him nightmares as a kid) and his trashy girlfriend Carol Fugate, this movie delivers and is highly recommended. Terrific performances and cinematography.

My favorite moment comes at the end when the cop expresses amazement that Kit is shorter than he is, such was the hype surrounding him.

[ChiO]

Speaking of Charles Starkweather and friend, THE SADIST (James Landis 1963) may be the movie that provided me with the greatest shock in unexpected quality. Not just another one of those Arch Hall, Jr. movies, he displays some acting chops. And the cinematography! Vilmos Zsigmond's U.S.-feature debut and it is absolutely stunning.

[charliechaplinfan]

In Badlands the criminals are similar to the outlaws you wrote about Stone, perhaps a slightly different time scale and geography but the heart of it felt similar. I loved Badlands, Chris for reason hated it, perhaps it's because he couldn't understand the motive (does there need to be one?) but it's beautifully filmed. Well worth a revisit. Are there many parellels with Bonnie and Clyde the other famous killer couple?

[JackFavell]

Not to be picky, but I'm not sure Carol Fugate was trashy, it's hard to know what she thought, whether she went along for fun or rebellion, or out of fear. Lat I read she continued to protest she was a victim just as her family was. Granted, it was some time ago that I last read about her.

I love Badlands, it's a great movie, so beautiful, and AMERICAN, I can't get over how Malick mixed the landscape into a story about killers so well.

I'll be on the lookout for The Sadist, I've never heard of it before.

Joyce Carol Oates wrote a terrifically disturbing account of this type of bad boy/good girl story that gave me the willies for months after I read it. It's called Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been. It was not about the Starkweather/Fugate case, as I originally thought, but about a fellow named Charles Schmid.

I've finally been getting into Stone's book, I am fascinated with Pretty Boy Floyd and Ma Barker. I love her real maiden name - "Arrie" or "Arizona Kate" Donnie Clark.

I wonder about these large takes they made from the different banks they robbed... did they spend the money right off? Did they give it to their families? They don't seem much more wealthy after robbing banks than they were before.

I'm also amazed at how many of these 1930's 'outlaws' had read about Jesse James in pocket books and were inspired by his story.

[RedRiver]

I'm not real familiar with Terence Malick's work, but people seem to like it a lot. In all these years, I have yet to see DAYS OF HEAVEN.

[Western Guy]

Sorry Wendy, from my personal standpoint I beg to differ. From all I've read and seen in documentaries on the subject (and later interviews with her, where she really tried to push that she herself was merely a victim - yeah, right), Carol Fugate was, to me, total trash. Maybe she reformed during her time in prison but anyone who would hook up with a specimen like Charles Starkweather had to be a lowbrow human being to start with. Don't mean to sound offensive but she went right along with Charlie-boy until they were captured, then she twisted the tale around. Hell, I believe W.D. Jones' accounts of his nightmare ride with Bonnie & Clyde more so than I do Fugate's.

That aside, I definitely second ChiO's recommendation of THE SADIST. An amazing film, tense almost every second and Arch Hall is probably the most chilling, vicious psychopath ever depicted on film. I guarantee you, you will be thinking about this film for days after. I repeat: Guaranteed.

[charliechaplinfan]

I'm going to look out for The Sadist too.

Terence Malick hasn't made that many films but the ones that he has are visually memorable and powerful.

All those outlaws had seemed to have read about Jesse James, I suppose he was still within living memory, just. I guessed that a lot of their wealth was spent paying for protection, they seemed to get so little out of it, with the exception of Dillinger who might have made a new life for himself.

[ChiO]

THE SADIST is available on Alpha Video (one of its better prints). Can't wait? It is on YouTube, both as a single piece and as a 9-parter.

Here's the trailer, narrated by Nicholas Merriwether aka Arch Hall, Sr. An exploitation classic!
[youtube][/youtube]

[Western Guy]

Of course that is true, Alison. The interesting thing is that most of the Dustbowl Desperados were afforded protection in major cities such as Chicago and Kansas City . . . if they could pay for it. Hillbillies like the Barker boys were well looked after by the Syndicate. They handed over their bankroll to the gangsters who ran the city, the mobsters took a percentage, protection was given and dollars were doled out as needed to Freddie, Doc and Alvin. The same was true with Nelson and Floyd, though Nelson, in particular, got too restless and reckless.

Alvin Karpis told the story of how when he was particularly hot and sought refuge in Chicago, the Outfit offered him protection and a weekly salary to work for them. Karpis, who looked at himself as an honorable bank robber and not a "hoodlum" rejected the offer. Later, after Karpis was arrested and being transported back to Minneapolis to stand trial, in the custody of J. Edgar himself, Hoover referred to Karpis as a "hoodlum". Karpis took offense and tried to explain the difference to Hoover, who refused to acknowledge Karpis's argument. Interesting how in the film THE BIG COMBO, as Richard Conte is about to be arrested, Cornel Wilde, with emphasis, refers to his character as a hoodlum. Apparently a derogatory trait not much appreciated by the underworld elite.

[charliechaplinfan]

I get the difference, I can see that for some there might be a world of difference and to others they are all criminals.

I watched You Can't Get Away With Murder today, the reason I mention it is because it's another movie set in Sing Sing, I bet Warner brothers got a lot of use out of there jail set, I don't know whether the blue print for cells were them being on top of one another with a wide open space at the other side, I remember Alcatraz being like this, these are nothing like British jails. I wonder if this was the way jails were built in America or whether the Warners and Alcatraz model looking the same is just a coincidence.

I would refer to Bogie's character in this one as a hoodlum of the worst order.

[RedRiver]

these are nothing like British jails.

Is there something you'd like to share with the group, Allison?