John Gilbert
-
silentscreen
- Posts: 701
- Joined: March 9th, 2008, 3:47 pm
John Gilbert
I think you either adore or detest John Gilbert. I am among those who really like him. My favorite silent movie of his that I've seen, since he was more well known in his silents, is King Vidor's "The Big Parade." Any thoughts on John and his films, whether it be silent or sound?
Last edited by silentscreen on May 9th, 2008, 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Humor is nothing less than a sense of the fitness of things." Carole Lombard
-
Ann Harding
- Posts: 1246
- Joined: January 11th, 2008, 11:03 am
- Location: Paris
- Contact:
Hi Brenda!
Actually, I think The Big Parade is -by far- John's best performance. He is acting like a human being rather than like a 'matinee idol'. In some of the other films I have seen him, I have never been moved by his performances. He is just 'acting' the latin lover. But, I suppose, this is a matter of taste.
That said, he appeared in quite a lot of silent classics: The Merry Widow by Stroheim, Vidor's La Bohème (where he is completely OTT), and of course all the Garbo pictures. He was very lucky to be under contract with MGM which gave him these opportunities.
As for his talkies, I haven't seen many. I just remember Downstairs as being interesting.
Actually, I think The Big Parade is -by far- John's best performance. He is acting like a human being rather than like a 'matinee idol'. In some of the other films I have seen him, I have never been moved by his performances. He is just 'acting' the latin lover. But, I suppose, this is a matter of taste.
That said, he appeared in quite a lot of silent classics: The Merry Widow by Stroheim, Vidor's La Bohème (where he is completely OTT), and of course all the Garbo pictures. He was very lucky to be under contract with MGM which gave him these opportunities.
As for his talkies, I haven't seen many. I just remember Downstairs as being interesting.
-
silentscreen
- Posts: 701
- Joined: March 9th, 2008, 3:47 pm
I think John was an interesting character, starting from the beginning of his days as a bit player in Incetown westerns through his matinee idol period and unfortunate decline. Like Valentino, he got typecast as the intense lover, which I think stunted his range as an actor. He was OTT in some parts, but very appealing in others.
I thought he was brilliant in "Flesh and the Devil". I've only seen him in one sound film, and I agree with Stuart that he looked burnt out in the latter part of his career. It's exciting that we have "Bardelys the Magnificent" to look forward to!
I thought he was brilliant in "Flesh and the Devil". I've only seen him in one sound film, and I agree with Stuart that he looked burnt out in the latter part of his career. It's exciting that we have "Bardelys the Magnificent" to look forward to!
"Humor is nothing less than a sense of the fitness of things." Carole Lombard
-
charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Count me as a fan Brenda 
I first saw him twenty years ago in Flesh and The Devil and some of the scenes in that film are still indelibly written in my head. When Gilbert and Garbo go out into the garden and light their cigarettes. Wow.
I partly agree with Christine, his performance in The Big Parade was understated and moving and one of his best acting roles. The scene with the chewing gum and the development of the romance between John Gilbert and Renee Adoree is so touching and I could cry when he has to leave her. I do like his more dashing roles though, he was born to play them.
I've liked him in everything I've seen him in, I don;t even think he overplays much in La Boheme ,sorry. I've liked him too in The Show. He's linked in my mind with Valentino for some reason, I wonder if he'd have died at the height of his popularity instead of Valentino would he have the greater fame today.
I first saw him twenty years ago in Flesh and The Devil and some of the scenes in that film are still indelibly written in my head. When Gilbert and Garbo go out into the garden and light their cigarettes. Wow.
I partly agree with Christine, his performance in The Big Parade was understated and moving and one of his best acting roles. The scene with the chewing gum and the development of the romance between John Gilbert and Renee Adoree is so touching and I could cry when he has to leave her. I do like his more dashing roles though, he was born to play them.
I've liked him in everything I've seen him in, I don;t even think he overplays much in La Boheme ,sorry. I've liked him too in The Show. He's linked in my mind with Valentino for some reason, I wonder if he'd have died at the height of his popularity instead of Valentino would he have the greater fame today.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
-
myrnaloyisdope
- Posts: 349
- Joined: May 15th, 2008, 3:53 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario
- Contact:
-
feaito
I liked him very much in one of my favorite Silents, "La Bohème" where he is fantastically paired with Lillian Gish. He's also very good in "Flesh and the Devil" (1926) with legendary Garbo. I'm ashamed to admit that I still haven't watched "The Big Parade" (1925), which I've had on DVD-R for a time now 
He also suprised me in a small early talkie I taped off TCM titled "Way for a Sailor" (1930) opposite Leila Hyams. He was good as a tough sailor and worked perfectly with Wally Beery and Miss Hyams!!
He's also sublime in "The Show" (1927) a truly great Tod Browning film.
I'd like to see him in "The Merry Widow" (1934), "Downstairs" (1932), "Fast Workers" (1933), "Desert Nights" (1929), "Man, Woman and Sin" (1927), "The Cossacks" (1928) and "The Phantom of Paris" (1931).
I also have "Love" (1927) and "He Who Gets Slapped" (1924) on Video but haven't gotten around to watching it.
"Queen Christina" (1933) is a good film but it's more Garbo's picture all the way.
He also suprised me in a small early talkie I taped off TCM titled "Way for a Sailor" (1930) opposite Leila Hyams. He was good as a tough sailor and worked perfectly with Wally Beery and Miss Hyams!!
He's also sublime in "The Show" (1927) a truly great Tod Browning film.
I'd like to see him in "The Merry Widow" (1934), "Downstairs" (1932), "Fast Workers" (1933), "Desert Nights" (1929), "Man, Woman and Sin" (1927), "The Cossacks" (1928) and "The Phantom of Paris" (1931).
I also have "Love" (1927) and "He Who Gets Slapped" (1924) on Video but haven't gotten around to watching it.
"Queen Christina" (1933) is a good film but it's more Garbo's picture all the way.
-
silentscreen
- Posts: 701
- Joined: March 9th, 2008, 3:47 pm
I just read an interesting tidbit about John written in "Classic Images" a few years ago. His daughter with Leatrice Joy, Leatrice Gilbert Fountain, who wrote a fabulous bio on her father, said that Joan Crawford was always on "the make" for him. But she wasn't his type and he spurned her. Just something I'd never heard before.... John was such a ladies man, it's hard to imagine him rejecting the divine Miss Crawford!"Humor is nothing less than a sense of the fitness of things." Carole Lombard
-
myrnaloyisdope
- Posts: 349
- Joined: May 15th, 2008, 3:53 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario
- Contact:
I just rewatched The Big Parade last night(this time in English), and Gilbert is quite good in it. His scenes with Renee Adoree are really quite moving. My only complaint would be his hamming it up during the trench scene, I pretty sure if you did that in a real trench you would have been shot instantly.
It's too bad he went out like he did.
It's too bad he went out like he did.
Feaito, Myrna,
Hey there This is for you it seems. I just posted this review of Gilbert's THE COSSACKS earlier tonight!
I had been looking for this film for some two years with no luck. Finally, thanks to my good friend Jorge, after all this time, I got to see the picture on Thursday evening.
In what was probably John Gilbert's last major feature of the Silent Era, THE COSSACKS is a near Epic scale production ranking with Gilbert's finest works. The monster cast. Includes Renee Adoree, Ernest Torrence, Nils Asther, Dale Fuller, and Mary Alden. Plus two big name Directors in George Roy Hill, and Clarence Brown. And continuity by the revered Francis Marion. Possibly MGM's most expensive and ambitious feature of 1928, with the exception of maybe Clarence Brown's THE TRAIL OF '98 with Delores Del Rio?
Set in an un-certain time frame, Gilbert plays "Lucashka" an outcast to his own village tribesmen. The majority of which can not read or write. Lucashka though is different, as He was sent away and well schooled in Moscow. Upon returning home He has no desire to fight the Turks as a Cossack! This is what all the men do after-all! He sees the constant Warring as futile, and senseless. Besides Lucashka is a lover not a fighter! He would much rather woo his childhood sweetheart the lovely Maryana! (Adoree). Can't say that I blame him. Ivan his burly brutish father, and the leader of The Cossacks, and his merry army regard Lucaska only as a ridiculous fop! They make jokes about his not wanting to fight, doing Woman's work, and picking wild flowers. Even so, Gilbert is at his most handsome and dashing from the very start in this picture.
The ladies job is tending to the land, and other decidedly rough labors. Meanwhile, their men fight, drink Vodka, wrestle, and chase brazen gypsy girls about! Such is life in the simple Village of Yernak! "And Over All Is GOD!" The entire group pauses to reflect, and kneel whenever the bells ring out each day. Once this brief interlude is over, it's back to business as usual! More fighting, drinking and carousing around! Kinda the way it is now! 
Lucaska is skilled at handling his prize Stallion. He attempts to impress Maryana with his daring riding skills while she toils in the fields. But she resists him! The girl has grown weary of his idling ways! He leaps off his horse, and lands atop the Hay wagon where Maryana is raking. After some brief banter, Lucashka grabs and kisses her none to gently! She becomes agitated! "I spit on you and your tricks!" Lucashka, responds slyly "You Love Me, And My Tricks"! And despite his general roughness toward her, indeed She does! As He rides away mounted backwards and waves to her, a coy yet unmistakable smile comes over Maryana in parting.
The "Ataman" of Yernak returns to find his son helping his Mother by hauling around heavy timber's! More Woman's work! He is filled with Shame and disgust! As evening falls, Lucashka makes another play for Maryana's affection. She explains that things can never be as they were between them! He is not a Cossack, but a Cowslip! Again taking liberties with Marynana, Lucashka, is cornered by a group of Cossacks! Since He will not fight, Lucasksa will pound the grapes for Wine as the Woman do! "What I fine Grape Wench He shall make!" They place a flower-wreath on his head, tie him to a post, and pelt him with grapes! Even the woman! Lucaska shows concern for Maryana, she is goaded "What do you think of your Sweetheart now? Maryana responds "He is not my Sweetheart! I Hate him!" Grasping a handful of Grapes she assaults him as well! The words hurt Lucaska deeply!
Humiliated, He is untied. His Father is enraged over the public spectacle! He takes down his trusty Horsewhip to punish his son! Beating him with the whip suddenly Lucaska is a flurry of anger dives at him and retaliates! He swipes the Whip away and starts to give his Father a dose of his own Medicine! The young son overwhelms the old man and thoroughly defeats him! Just than several Turkish prisoners having strangled the guards escape! Lucaska runs to see what the excitement is about? The father bludgeoned by his son looks in the mirror at his wounds, and laughs his heart swells with pride! His Lucaska does indeed have the fighting heart of a Cossack!
With a rush of Adrenaline, Lacashka races after the escaped Turkish prisoners! And subdues them! Almost over night He transforms from one who is scorned to admired and respected by the Cossacks! Riding away to face the Turk Maryana tries to Make amends for her offensive remarks! she is still deeply in love with him! Suddenly, Lakashka perhaps still lingering on his past betrayal by her spurns her love. And now it is His turn to treat Maryana with indifference!
After The band departs for the mountains, an unexpected coach arrives at Yernak from Moscow! It's passenger is the regale Prince Olenin (Asther), and Lo, He is hunting for a Bride! Decreed as such by his Uncle, to blend the blood of the peoples. He will Wed one of the Turnip Woman of Yernak! Scanning the crowd of female oglers with much distain, His focus finally comes to rest favorably upon Maryana! Now things get interesting as suddenly when Lakashka returns from his Triumphant tussle with the Turks, He finds himself with a rival for the first time! And Maryana is no longer all that sure if she wants to be the Wife of a Cossack anymore, or not!
In deference to his passion for Maryana, Gilbert's Lucashka is not exactly a one woman man, He has an open tryst with a flirtatious Gypsy seductress, right under Maryana's pretty little nose and even flaunts it! He is likewise rather Arrogant and conceited! A genuine pompous ***! At times this Bad Boy character isn't an easy fellow to like! At others the strong hearted, and even caring individual underneath his bravado is allowed to peer through.
At this point there is still a whole lot to come! Plenty of give and take between Lucashka, and Maryana. Some humorous Goat-getting, real romance, Spite and In-spite, and Making amends! Plus loads of fighting, and a surprise kidnapping! Father and Son Taken Prisoner, and much more! Yet Victory and Tragedy lay ahead! And lest we forget "Over All Is God!"
Though I enjoyed the picture on first viewing, I was nonetheless, somewhat under-whelmed by it. However, as I added music, the movie really started coming to life. I objected somewhat to the way that "Lukashka" treats Maryana. He kicks her around, and even punches her in a fit of rage at one point during her Pre-Marriage preparations to the Prince! Otherwise He is pretty rough with her much of the movie. But so are all the men with the Woman with the possible exception of Nils Asther's Olenin , and He's a real Lady Killer, obviously used to routinely getting exactly what He wants from the opposite sex!
Asther's character is almost an after-thought. He doesn't even appear until the film is nearly half-over. He seems to be there for the sole purpose of making Gilbert jealous? Although He attempts to make peace between the Russian's and the Turks. There is no question who is the "Star" for a moment, and who is filler! Gilbert is your Star, not Asther! A bald-headed, huge mustached Ernest Torrence, is rousing good fun as the leader of "The Cossacks".
To me, Co-Star Renee Adoree is the best thing about the movie, and she really sparkles here. Often-times she is at her most beautiful, and She is very close to being my favorite Silent Screen Actress by now. Gilbert should have forgot Garbo and Married Renee! In my opinion they had even more on-screen chemistry together as a combination!
This is at times a rather violent picture, with a fair amount of blood being spilt, and some surprisingly brutal battles. There are battered bodies dropping all over the place! In one shocking sequence Lucashka, and his Father are even mercilessly tortured by the Turks with Red Hot coals as Maryana is forced to look on in horror!
All and all, THE COSSACKS is unquestionably one of John Gilbert's best pictures. A rarely seen classic that may at long last be getting ready to resurface soon? The print from TVE is excellent. This film has been beautifully restored. Though what ever music it may have had in this presentation was removed for some reason? Hopefully, TCM will be airing it with a new score soon, or maybe the vintage Western Electric Track still exists? I don't know?
As far as I am aware the Movie has yet to debut on TCM? In any case, not meaning to boast, but it won't be easy to top the score I just dubbed in this weekend. There are a few rough patches as my software is not the best, but for the most part one might be inclined to believe that this is the original score to the film! It enhances the majority of the action on-screen almost perfectly! As I used all vintage recordings from the period, it has the feel and tone of a true Movie-Tone or Metro-tone track. To bad I couldn't get TCM to record the score anew that I compiled together! That would be fabulous! I would love for people to get to be able to hear this effort!
Hey there This is for you it seems. I just posted this review of Gilbert's THE COSSACKS earlier tonight! I had been looking for this film for some two years with no luck. Finally, thanks to my good friend Jorge, after all this time, I got to see the picture on Thursday evening. In what was probably John Gilbert's last major feature of the Silent Era, THE COSSACKS is a near Epic scale production ranking with Gilbert's finest works. The monster cast. Includes Renee Adoree, Ernest Torrence, Nils Asther, Dale Fuller, and Mary Alden. Plus two big name Directors in George Roy Hill, and Clarence Brown. And continuity by the revered Francis Marion. Possibly MGM's most expensive and ambitious feature of 1928, with the exception of maybe Clarence Brown's THE TRAIL OF '98 with Delores Del Rio? Set in an un-certain time frame, Gilbert plays "Lucashka" an outcast to his own village tribesmen. The majority of which can not read or write. Lucashka though is different, as He was sent away and well schooled in Moscow. Upon returning home He has no desire to fight the Turks as a Cossack! This is what all the men do after-all! He sees the constant Warring as futile, and senseless. Besides Lucashka is a lover not a fighter! He would much rather woo his childhood sweetheart the lovely Maryana! (Adoree). Can't say that I blame him. Ivan his burly brutish father, and the leader of The Cossacks, and his merry army regard Lucaska only as a ridiculous fop! They make jokes about his not wanting to fight, doing Woman's work, and picking wild flowers. Even so, Gilbert is at his most handsome and dashing from the very start in this picture. The ladies job is tending to the land, and other decidedly rough labors. Meanwhile, their men fight, drink Vodka, wrestle, and chase brazen gypsy girls about! Such is life in the simple Village of Yernak! "And Over All Is GOD!" The entire group pauses to reflect, and kneel whenever the bells ring out each day. Once this brief interlude is over, it's back to business as usual! More fighting, drinking and carousing around! Kinda the way it is now! Lucaska is skilled at handling his prize Stallion. He attempts to impress Maryana with his daring riding skills while she toils in the fields. But she resists him! The girl has grown weary of his idling ways! He leaps off his horse, and lands atop the Hay wagon where Maryana is raking. After some brief banter, Lucashka grabs and kisses her none to gently! She becomes agitated! "I spit on you and your tricks!" Lucashka, responds slyly "You Love Me, And My Tricks"! And despite his general roughness toward her, indeed She does! As He rides away mounted backwards and waves to her, a coy yet unmistakable smile comes over Maryana in parting. The "Ataman" of Yernak returns to find his son helping his Mother by hauling around heavy timber's! More Woman's work! He is filled with Shame and disgust! As evening falls, Lucashka makes another play for Maryana's affection. She explains that things can never be as they were between them! He is not a Cossack, but a Cowslip! Again taking liberties with Marynana, Lucashka, is cornered by a group of Cossacks! Since He will not fight, Lucasksa will pound the grapes for Wine as the Woman do! "What I fine Grape Wench He shall make!" They place a flower-wreath on his head, tie him to a post, and pelt him with grapes! Even the woman! Lucaska shows concern for Maryana, she is goaded "What do you think of your Sweetheart now? Maryana responds "He is not my Sweetheart! I Hate him!" Grasping a handful of Grapes she assaults him as well! The words hurt Lucaska deeply! Humiliated, He is untied. His Father is enraged over the public spectacle! He takes down his trusty Horsewhip to punish his son! Beating him with the whip suddenly Lucaska is a flurry of anger dives at him and retaliates! He swipes the Whip away and starts to give his Father a dose of his own Medicine! The young son overwhelms the old man and thoroughly defeats him! Just than several Turkish prisoners having strangled the guards escape! Lucaska runs to see what the excitement is about? The father bludgeoned by his son looks in the mirror at his wounds, and laughs his heart swells with pride! His Lucaska does indeed have the fighting heart of a Cossack! With a rush of Adrenaline, Lacashka races after the escaped Turkish prisoners! And subdues them! Almost over night He transforms from one who is scorned to admired and respected by the Cossacks! Riding away to face the Turk Maryana tries to Make amends for her offensive remarks! she is still deeply in love with him! Suddenly, Lakashka perhaps still lingering on his past betrayal by her spurns her love. And now it is His turn to treat Maryana with indifference! After The band departs for the mountains, an unexpected coach arrives at Yernak from Moscow! It's passenger is the regale Prince Olenin (Asther), and Lo, He is hunting for a Bride! Decreed as such by his Uncle, to blend the blood of the peoples. He will Wed one of the Turnip Woman of Yernak! Scanning the crowd of female oglers with much distain, His focus finally comes to rest favorably upon Maryana! Now things get interesting as suddenly when Lakashka returns from his Triumphant tussle with the Turks, He finds himself with a rival for the first time! And Maryana is no longer all that sure if she wants to be the Wife of a Cossack anymore, or not! In deference to his passion for Maryana, Gilbert's Lucashka is not exactly a one woman man, He has an open tryst with a flirtatious Gypsy seductress, right under Maryana's pretty little nose and even flaunts it! He is likewise rather Arrogant and conceited! A genuine pompous ***! At times this Bad Boy character isn't an easy fellow to like! At others the strong hearted, and even caring individual underneath his bravado is allowed to peer through. At this point there is still a whole lot to come! Plenty of give and take between Lucashka, and Maryana. Some humorous Goat-getting, real romance, Spite and In-spite, and Making amends! Plus loads of fighting, and a surprise kidnapping! Father and Son Taken Prisoner, and much more! Yet Victory and Tragedy lay ahead! And lest we forget "Over All Is God!"
Though I enjoyed the picture on first viewing, I was nonetheless, somewhat under-whelmed by it. However, as I added music, the movie really started coming to life. I objected somewhat to the way that "Lukashka" treats Maryana. He kicks her around, and even punches her in a fit of rage at one point during her Pre-Marriage preparations to the Prince! Otherwise He is pretty rough with her much of the movie. But so are all the men with the Woman with the possible exception of Nils Asther's Olenin , and He's a real Lady Killer, obviously used to routinely getting exactly what He wants from the opposite sex! Asther's character is almost an after-thought. He doesn't even appear until the film is nearly half-over. He seems to be there for the sole purpose of making Gilbert jealous? Although He attempts to make peace between the Russian's and the Turks. There is no question who is the "Star" for a moment, and who is filler! Gilbert is your Star, not Asther! A bald-headed, huge mustached Ernest Torrence, is rousing good fun as the leader of "The Cossacks". To me, Co-Star Renee Adoree is the best thing about the movie, and she really sparkles here. Often-times she is at her most beautiful, and She is very close to being my favorite Silent Screen Actress by now. Gilbert should have forgot Garbo and Married Renee! In my opinion they had even more on-screen chemistry together as a combination! This is at times a rather violent picture, with a fair amount of blood being spilt, and some surprisingly brutal battles. There are battered bodies dropping all over the place! In one shocking sequence Lucashka, and his Father are even mercilessly tortured by the Turks with Red Hot coals as Maryana is forced to look on in horror! All and all, THE COSSACKS is unquestionably one of John Gilbert's best pictures. A rarely seen classic that may at long last be getting ready to resurface soon? The print from TVE is excellent. This film has been beautifully restored. Though what ever music it may have had in this presentation was removed for some reason? Hopefully, TCM will be airing it with a new score soon, or maybe the vintage Western Electric Track still exists? I don't know? As far as I am aware the Movie has yet to debut on TCM? In any case, not meaning to boast, but it won't be easy to top the score I just dubbed in this weekend. There are a few rough patches as my software is not the best, but for the most part one might be inclined to believe that this is the original score to the film! It enhances the majority of the action on-screen almost perfectly! As I used all vintage recordings from the period, it has the feel and tone of a true Movie-Tone or Metro-tone track. To bad I couldn't get TCM to record the score anew that I compiled together! That would be fabulous! I would love for people to get to be able to hear this effort!