SSO Summer School- The Films and Style of Howard Hawks

[charliechaplinfan]

I'm pleased to be joining in with this thread. The only film activity I have managed in the last few weeks whilst moving is finishing off Todd McCarthy's book on Howard Hawks.

I read the flaw in BUB, I love the fact everyone is crazy but Cary is crazy because he is surrounded by crazy people. I like all of Cary's collaborations with Katharine Hepburn but only The Philadelphia Story was a triumph for Katherine Hepburn, for me these are amongst the best of her films (I'd also include Stage Door from this period too) Perhaps as has been said Katharine Hepburn was playing to the perceptions of her.

I really look forward to discussing Rio Bravo, I've seen it for the first time and I'd be interested to know others thoughts about it.

[Lzcutter]

Okay, class, hope you are ready to move on to this week's assignment.

Hawks liked strong women, especially those who could be sexy and strong at the same time. Even better if they could handle zingy dialog when called for. It was only after Jean Arthur saw THaHN that she realized what Hawks was trying to get her to do with her character in Angels. She went straight to Hawks' house, waited for him to come home and promised that if they ever worked together again she would overcome her insecurities and work with him to fashion a better character.

Talk about the female leads and how they differ and their similarities from Only Angels Have Wings to To Have and Have Not to Rio Bravo.

In addition, which one do you like the best and which one is your least favorite and WHY.

Have fun!

[mrsl]

On this I can add my two cents.

Only Angels Have Wings: Rita's part just seemed to be an aside to prove Cary's character had a past. She was so wishy-washy IMO since first, she wants to leave her hubby, then get with Cary again, then finally she's going to try again with hubby - Make up your mind, girl. Now, you know I intensely dislike Jean Arthurs' voice, but I will be impartial regardless. Like Irene Dunne in A Guy Named Joe, Jean just does NOT strike me as the fun loving, hang with the guys type of gal. Such a shame Jean Harlow was gone by the time of this film, she would have been perfect. It seemed like Jean Arthurs' eyes locked on Cary when she had to stop and wait for the next flight, and the rest of the film was her chasing after him, while everyone else was doing a serious drama. The only time she came across as serious was when Thomas Mitchell died. If Hawks was trying to make her into a semi-sweet, semi-sexy woman, he failed miserably.

With Lauren Bacall in To Have and Have Not however, he ranked supreme. The fact is though, that Lauren IS sexy without trying, Jean Arthur is not. In the first place Lauren looks older than 19 which she was when THaHN was made, not really older, just wiser and more worldly. Also she was able to use sex as a tool in getting Bogey out of the mess he was in, by getting the police to watch her instead of him. She didn't have to turn on the sex for every scene though. In several scenes she simply had to be there and contribute once in a while, thereby utilizing all the skills she had, without even knowing she had them since this was her first movie.

Rio Bravo: As Feathers, Angie Dickinson was pure sex from beginning to end, she used sex in everything she did, even when talking to that sweet hotel/bar owner, and the 'kid' Rick. Mr L once said she talks through her eye lids, meaning she always uses that husky voice, while looking at you from those half closed eyes. Jean Arthur was able to handle Rita in OAHW because Rita was a badly flawed person in Cary's eyes, but she would have been no match at all for either Lauren or Angie - they would have eaten her alive.

I love Angie Dickinson, but I think my favorite was Lauren both on and off screen. In relation to the parts however, I prefer the way Lauren handles herself in all instances.
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[charliechaplinfan]

What I love about OAHW is that it's so manly, Cary grant never got that many chances to do that kind of role and he was so good at it. I guess I like all the boys stuff in this movie, Jean Arthur who I love in everything else just doesn't gel. The chemistry between her and Cary could have been so much more, she comes across as an annoyance and makes me wonder why he would keep her with him.

Lauren Bacall/Slim was the pinnacle of the back talking sexy dames in To Have and Have Not, he touched on gold when he cast this movie, in more ways than one. Is she Slim Hawks or has Howard pushed into a caricature portrait of Slim. I like the chemistry too in The Big Sleep the difference here is that Lauren is more grown up, she's been married rather than just acquainted shall we say and she's playing with bigger fish. The chemistry perhaps slightly diminished but only by a bug's whisker.

I like his comedies too from this period. I was a Male War Bride, Ann Sheridan's character dominates Cary's Henri during the first half of the movie and Henri was one of the weaker leads in a Hawk's movie, I think only Cary could have pulled it off so well. Monkey Business, I felt Ginger Rogers was a bit of a half way house, never strong nor vulnerable. Hawk's didn't care for her and Marilyn's character is a fantasy caricature of a secretary.

The last Hawk's movie I have seen from this period is Rio Bravo. I loved Angie Dickinson, she is perhaps closest to Slim than any other role. The chemistry is just not quite there, it's not Angie's fault, perhaps it's something to do with the age gap and the fact that Duke never looks entirely comfortable with her and I don't see why she would want him, I understand why Jean wants Cary and why Slim wants Steve etc but this one I don't see. She'd have been better off with Dean but then it would have messed up the whole plot.

Just my opinion, hope I haven't ridden roughshod over someone's favorite movie. It's the only criticism I can level at Rio Bravo, the rest being a wonderful film.

[movieman1957]

You make a good point about strong women in Hawks' movies. Hildy in "His Girl Friday" and even "Sugarpuss" in "Ball of Fire" (which I just introduced my family to recently) are both strong women. Stanwyck as "Sugarpuss" is having fun, to an extent, leading the boys around and giving them an education. At some point the fun wears out for her though. Even at that when she gives up on her relationship with Lilac (Dana Andrews) she is not afraid to tell him off.

I have to agree with you about Dickinson. Thinking more closely on it she seems to be doing a Bacall through some of the movie. I have a hard time buying her loving someone who certainly is old enough to be her father. I can see her admiring Duke but loving him may be a bit far fetched. Is she looking for a protector of sorts.

[knitwit45]

I love both Rio Bravo and To Have and Have Not, but that's in spite of Dickinson. Her performance seems forced all the way thru, and it's like she was thrown in for the sexy legs part. Bacall is vulnerable, but she keeps it well hidden under the tough girl image. As Steve tells her, she's been slapped around before. Dickinson waivers between being hard, and acting like a little girl. Very confusing.

[mrsl]

I should have added that I felt that many of the Dukes leading ladies were too young for him, like Angie, and Martha Hyer, but actually when Rio Bravo was made, he was only 52, yet you're right, he was old enough to be Angies father. A couple of years later, with El Dorado however, whoever that lady was as his love interest looked perfect.

I realize this is supposed to be a comparison of the ladies of Hawkes films, so I'll leave it at that.
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[charliechaplinfan]

Yet Bacall was perfect for Bogart, both on screen and off. Both men were men's men but with Bogie and Bacall the chemistry worked but for Duke and Angie, it didn't. Hawks struck gold with Bogie and Bacall.

I don't think women were Hawk's strong point. He liked the male camaraderie and the romances in his films never ran a straight path, there was always bickering or disagreement and when his couples did get together it wasn't certain that they would stay together.

Monkey Business was the only film of Hawk's sound career that featured the leads as a married couple. Does this say anything about Hawks?

[mrsl]

Just a short line. Hawkes didn't find gold in Bogey & Bacall, They Did. They fell in love making To Have and Have Not, and like Gable & Lombard, it just kept getting better and better - direction had nothing to do with it. It was their own personal chemistry shining through on screen.
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[charliechaplinfan]

Anne, I meant he found gold in bringing them together, the rest was indeed down to them.

I was interrupted when I was trying to post before, too many small mouths around here needing feeding.

I meant to continue about Monkey Business, Hawks wasn't interested in Ginger Rogers character, didn't want her to drink the potion and have her turn at silliness, she was a big enough name to insist but after that he wasn't friendly on set with her. Despite this I find the film an underrated gem and love the chemistry between Cary and Ginger and Cary and Marilyn.

Then there was Marilyn again in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, a strange film for Hawks to make. He didn't direct the musical scenes, I always felt that the part of Dorothy was favoured in the filming. It is Lorelei's story and Dorothy is her pal, here Dorothy gets 50% of the action. This reflects Jane Russell's greater fame and who she was under contract to. She was Hawk's pal too and got on well with Marilyn. I think Hawk's built his fimiliar camaraderie into this tale of two showgirls.

Hawks liked to use the same leading men, Cary Grant, John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart who were big names but for the female parts he would prefer to discover the talent, only when his discoveries couldn't carry the films did he scout around for replacements.

[Lzcutter]

Hey Guys,

You are all doing a great job of analyzing the weekly topics and putting forth your arguments. You're giving each other and me lots to chew on.

It's a real treat to read your essays and I appreciate everyone who is taking the time and effort to participate.

This week's topic looks at three westerns that Hawks made that all have the same basic story premise.

Compare and contrast Rio Bravo, El Dorado and Rio Lobo.

How do all three stack up against each other, what are the strengths of each film as well as the weaknesses and which one is your favorite and WHY.

[charliechaplinfan]

I've only seen Rio Bravo and found it very entertaining. John Wayne and Dean Martin, I'm not sure they should have been great partners but they were. For me this film was very much about the interplay between the characters, the dialogue. I think the one thing that links the Hawks movies I've seen is the great dialogue.

[movieman1957]

While waiting on "Rio Lobo" I revisited "El Dorado" (or at least most of it.) One thing I noticed about "El Dorado" is that it seems that for being a remake it is almost 45 minutes into the movie before the stories start to resemble each other. The are parallels in the characters, with Duke's role being different because of his not being sheriff here.

Only after Wayne and Caan get back to El Dorado do things get going. The early part spends a bit of time getting Caan's character introduced and into the story. (Something that really didn't happen with Nelson's role.) Mitchum is largely absent after the first scene until well into the story. I like Caan better than Nelson but they may be because he is given a lot more to do. He is certainly a better actor which may be why he had an expanded role.

One thing that struck me about the difference in Martin and Mitchum in their drunkenness is their approach to it. Martin, as I recall, was a more pathetic drunk. Everything was wrong. He wasn't sure he could do anything. Mitchum tries to stay in charge. He continues to do his job. Wayne's job in this part of the film is to be supportive of Mitchum while making sure they do the right thing. This is not something he could so so much in "Rio Bravo" with him being sheriff.

One thing about Bull vs. Stumpy follows something I heard somewhere else is that since you can't compete don't try. No one else could be Stumpy so Bull has to be his own character while filling a similar role. There is plenty to love about Bull for being who he is.

I seem to remember that "Rio Lobo" has a similar line in that the opening has a completely original story but later in the film the characters pairings start to match up as does some of the action.

More on "Lobo" after I get to see it all.

[movieman1957]

Rio Lobo vs. El Dorado vs. Rio Bravo

Having already made some comparisons to between the earlier films Rio Lobo turns out to be the weakest of the three. The story is all well and good but the biggest problem, for me, is the rest of the leading cast. After Wayne you get Jorge Rivero, Chris Mitchum and Jennifer O'Neill. Oh boy! Later and all too briefly you get Jack Elam, David Huddleston, Jim Davis and so on.

Once again Hawks starts a story that takes the long way to get to its "Rio Bravo" like finally. In fact, it seems well over an hour before you get a hint in the story of similarities. The are hints of character parallels along the way but nothing concrete.

Former Civil War enemies band together after the war to find man who sold gold shipment info to the enemy and then later tries a land grab on one of that group. In some ways later the characters story line is reversed from the earlier films. Wayne, et al are the aggressive side of the story. They don't get stuck in a jail until the last twenty minutes of the film. A bit earlier they grab the villain and take him hostage rather then sit on the villain in the earlier films. This leads to the eventual trading of hostages and climactic shootout.

Jack Elam most channels previous characters. He is more "Bull" than "Stumpy." Two inside jokes are Elam using the "suck egg mule" line and Wayne suggesting that Elam "blow a bugle" with as much noise as he makes at an inopportune time.

Side notes. Hawks must have loved shotguns. Near the end lots of post production dialog dubbing seemed evident. Lots of people get shot in the leg. I remember George Plimpton, who plays a small part, made a documentary about being in the film. He kept getting in the way of filming. He had a hard time deciding how he would say his one line. He had fun though.

All in all the Rio Bravo and El Dorado have loyal fans and I guess any could make an argument as their preference one over the other. Rio Lobo could have been a better film with a stronger lead cast. As it is it is ok but not in the league with the other two.

I hope with my two comments that answers what you were looking for.

Corrected "Bravo" to "Lobo" because I messed up. Thanks Lynn for pointing it out.

[Lzcutter]

Chris,

I'm beating you mean Rio Lobo in your opening sentence.

By the way, Hawks hated working with Jennifer O'Neill who he felt was hoisted on him because of her popularity at the time. A one-time model, while quite beautiful, she was no actress and nothing Hawks could do would make her one. He was not kind in later interviews when asked about working with her.