Will You Take Romance?

[Mr. Arkadin]

While I understand your feelings, they are not related by blood. When I see them, I think it's romantic in the fact that here are two young people who would and should be in love and married. It's the hands of society in the form of Martin's father whose lust took Anne away as a child and used her for his own means that is warped and unnatural. His underlying guilt tells much in this story.

[ChiO]

I don't buy the "not related by blood" argument. When Martin and his father's new wife first meet, she says she was concerned about him coming home to such a young "mother", Martin refers to her as "mother", and she calls him "son". And, of course, Absalon considers her now to be Martin's mother. So, the family ties and dynamic are set up for violation of the incest taboo.

All of the above is just to bolster what I intended by my initial comment: unlike St. Joan and the female lead in ORDET, the young woman in DAY OF WRATH is not an idealized female, but has a soul that is arguably as corrupt as any of those around her. Because of that corruption of the soul, I can't accept the possibility of the relationship being "romantic".

But we certainly are in agreement on a key point: this film (and Dreyer's films generally) have great emotional depth and a respect for each viewer to develop an interpretation.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I have said--and still agree--that Anne is as corrupt as the society around her. While some view her as saint, others as sinner, I see her as neither. Anne is someone much like us who has good and bad qualities, succumbed to temptation, and has also helped others (she helps the accused witch). BTW, I don't buy the witch as innocent either. At the first of the film she clearly extols the virtues of "Dark Powers".

Is there an incest quality about Anne's and Martin's relationship? Yes, I can see that, because as I mentioned in the other thread, Dryer leaves everything open ended. You could ask the same question of Anne's eyes shining with a mysterious fire. Her unearthly powers are suggested, but never proved to us. This is why her end is so perfectly balanced. We feel that she deserves some kind of punishment, but we feel sympathy for her as well.

Anne is accused by Absalon's mother--not because of any proof she is a witch, but because of simple dislike and jealousy. Something a good Christian should rise above. It's also noteworthy that physical sins (that which can be seen such as fornication or witchcraft) are condemned, whereas sins of the heart (pride, jealousy, avarice) are ignored. This is also true in today's society. Herein lies Dryer's point: In all of us exists the potential for evil. Sadly, many of us never recognize it, or the harm we do to ourselves, and others. Many times we rationalize truth to salve our conscience, and encourage others to do the same.

[jdb1]

Excuse my ignorance, friends, but I'm not sure which movie on this thread "Anne and Martin" belong to. Have I missed a posting somewhere?

[ChiO]

jdb1 said:

Excuse my ignorance, friends, but I'm not sure which movie on this thread "Anne and Martin" belong to.

I got carried away with one of Mr. Arkadin's choices, DAY OF WRATH. I was about to start another thread for it since it was getting dangerously close to a hijack, but I believe we're done now.

Sorry.

[Mr. Arkadin]

Sorry about our discussion, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[moirafinnie]

Sorry about our discussion, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Huh?
Hey, no harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned, guys. You make me want to seek out Days of Wrath, which I've yet to see. Ah, so many films, so little time...If only I could send that "other" Moira off to work and social occasions, and the "inner" Moira could watch all the movies she needs to catch up with to complete her cinematic education. Maybe in my next lifetime.