Oliver and The Kid. Dickens and Chaplin

[stuart.uk]

With all the talk of Charles Dickens and Chaplin the past few days, I found myself comparing the great works of both geniuses. I've heard of how Dicken's championed himself as a spokesperson of the poor in Victorian England through his works like Oliver, Great Expectations and David Copperfield (I wish someone would make a movie about Domby And Son, so far all I've seen is mini-series with Julien Glover). I'm not to sure if I see Chaplin as a champion of the poor, but he was clearly influence by his poverty stricken upbringing in London's East End with movies like The Imigrant, Easy Street and The Kid, the latter film which mirrors his own childhood experiences.

I found myself comparing more so Oliver and The Kid
Oliver's mother dies in child birth in a workhouse. The Kid's unmarried mum abandons her son, after leaving a workhouse.
Oliver spends much of his childhood in the workhouse. The workhouse employess try to snatch the kid from The Tramp, after they discover he's not the natural father. (In reality Chaplin was snatched from his mother, along with half-brother Syd and put in a workhouse)
Oliver is rescued from the gutter by an old man, who turns out to be his grandfather. The Kid meets his now famous mum 5 yrs after his birth, but she doesn't recognize him at first. However, she soon discovers he's her son and she rescues both him and the tramp from a life of poverty

[RedRiver]

Hmm...I'm not sure I knew about an old man turning out to be Oliver's grandfather. I haven't read the book. But I don't remember it from the movies. Have I just forgotten?

[stuart.uk]

Maybe not grandfather. I seem to remember in one film Oliver's mother turned out to be the old man's neice

[charliechaplinfan]

I wonder if Chaplin had read Dickens? Or rather when he read Dickens. He was a haphazard education and tried to make up for the holes in his education. I think The Kid is the London of Chaplin's childhood which can't have been very different from the London that Dickens wrote about, perhaps little had changed despite the attention Dicken's brought to the plight of the poor in London. Both leave indelible impressions.

[JackFavell]

Isn't it silly, I can see the connection easily but it never crossed my mind before to compare the two.

[stuart.uk]

I think the London that excisted at the time of Dickens death won't be to far removed of the city Chaplin was born into. Folk still got around with a horse and cart if they could afford one

I think Limelight showed how life could change dramticilly for a music hall entertainer. Chaplin's Calvero at his height would have been on good money, but once his appeal waned he ended up in board and lodgings. In David Robinson's book about Chaplin, we here of a story about a young female entertainer, who was at one time a headliner, but in just a few shorts yrs she was a derilict, taken in by Chaplin's mother, when she found her on the street. Hannah Chaplin to seems to have been well off for a time when younger, but she too hit on hard times

[charliechaplinfan]

I've always wondered just how much of Limelight is about Chaplin's own father. Chaplin spent so much time behind these scenes in the music hall he saw lots of characters. Chaplin's shorts, once he'd attained autonomy show London, not LA even when being American in subject like The Immigrant, the street scenes to me are still London. . This film that demonstrates this most clearly in Easy Street, that's Dickensian.

[stuart.uk]

It's funny when it's said Chaplin based Calvero on his father, only because Charles snr died young, whereas Calvero was probably in his 60s.

I was just thinking that most of the classical actors once they hit their 60s, save Cary Grant, seemed to cease from doing love scenes. In Duke Wayne's latter films, the suggestion is still there, but no real love scenes. Likewise in Limelight, while I believe, despite Neville, that Calvero and Terry loved each other, other than linking arms, there was no phyiscal affection shown between Charlie and Claire Bloom's characters, at least on camera

Now, it's acceptable to see the likes of Harrison Ford in love scenes

[intothenitrate]

I've always wondered just how much of Limelight is about Chaplin's own father. Chaplin spent so much time behind these scenes in the music hall he saw lots of characters...

I just watched Limelight again, and, as usual, am haunted by the afterimages in my mind. In order to process my feelings all over again, I went over to IMDB to read through the user reviews. It's amazing the wide range of opinions about the film -- people seem to either love it or hate it.

So while I'm putting the puzzle together (once again), it started to dawn on me that the model for Calvero might have been more Chaplin's father, than Chaplin himself. So I came back over here to SSO, searched on "Limelight," and came to find out that you were way ahead of me, CCF.

You often hear that Limelight is an evocation of Chaplin's music hall roots. But this observation, once I started thinking about it, was somewhat incongruous. He was quite young when he switched from stage to film, so his experiences in music halls were the experiences of a youngster on his way up -- an ambitious person bootstrapping himself out of abject poverty through his wit and art. There's no room for pathos and irony in such a worldview. Plus, I never got the impression that Chaplin's work in the music halls was of the song-and-dance variety, the way Calvero's was. I think he's channeling someone else's art there.

That Limelight is a contemplation of mortality -- now that's an observation that has legs. I believe it's the only film in which Chaplin's character dies. As we contemplate our own death, it's only natural that we look to the examples of our closest relatives that have preceded us on that journey. I'm thinking that, later in life, Chaplin is reflecting (in part) on the demise of his own dad -- this time with a fuller and deeper sympathy and understanding.

My oldest son and his wife just had a baby, a beautiful boy, my first grandchild. It's interesting how (at least in my mind) our relationship has changed. He (my son) is no longer a "terminal node" on the family tree. Now he and I are on the same team, the support team devoted to making sure the new ones get off to the best start possible. Limelight echoes this sentiment -- quite conspicuously -- in the realm of the arts.

For all of the time Chaplin has played inebriates, I've heard that he didn't drink himself because of what it had done to his father. And even though Calvero isn't shown as a "Lost Weekend" sort of dipsomaniac, the script of the film provides a set of connect-the-dots clues pointing to alcohol as the cause of death. That is, a) He tells Teresa he quit drinking because he nearly died of a heart attack; b) He has a beer bash with the street musicians after she's back on her feet; c) He takes a drink before he goes on stage for his final performance; and d) The doctor tells everyone he's had a heart attack after falling into the orchestra pit. Other than that, Calvero doesn't seem the type to be wholly given over to drink, like a classic alcoholic. So if he is patterning the character after his father, he's toned the pathology way, way down.

Another little clue about the models for these characters comes from an interview with Claire Bloom. She said that when she and Chaplin were picking out her wardrobe for the part, he would say of some articles, "Wear this, my mother had something like this." Now, whether that was simply to place the costuming in the correct period, or whether it was a more deliberate, personal evocation of his mother, we'll never know. Still, it suggests a parallel between the Theresa and Calvero couple and his own parents.

Ultimately, Limelight is a fiction, a story, a piece of art, with many sources and inspirations. If it is in part a re-imagining of what Charles Sr's later life might have been -- had he been a little more philosophical, a little less self-absorbed, a little more prone to compassionate action -- he might have been able to go out on top, as the character Calvero did. The mood of the film is often described as "bittersweet." As a re-imagining of Chaplin's origins, I believe it takes a situation that was almost patently bitter and adds not only sweetness, but redemption.

[stuart.uk]

Chaplin told of a story of when he was a kid, much to his childlike disaproval, his mum helped a drelict girl, took her back home and tried to help her. 3 yrs before this derlict girl was a headliner on the music hall stage. It seems to have been a rutheless profession, where a peformer was only as good as their last performance.

[charliechaplinfan]

Congratulations on your grandson, you must be so proud of your son and his wife.

I love Limelight, I think his father is there in Calvero but also other people he'll have known around the music halls and perhaps it's a reflection of the men he might have been if he hadn't have found the new medium of film, if he'd have stayed in the music hall. I think it's a love letter to the English tradition of the musical hall, like vaudeville in America, it was fading into the past. I always thought Claire Bloom's character was in part about Oona, Claire looked a lot like Oona and Oona doubled for Claire in the long shots, I'm sure there were parts of his mother there too. One thing that has been said about Chaplin is the ability for him to keep ideas in his head for years and years just waiting for the right opportunity to use them, the flea circus he'd wanted to use for ages. I love Buster being in this film, it makes it terribly sentimental for me, I find the film sentimental anyway but the addition of Buster just adds to the connection to music hall/vaudeville.

It's a great movie, I'm not sure that Chaplin ever made a bad one although I haven't watched his last two, probably because I don't want to be shaken from this feeling.

[intothenitrate]

I wonder what someone would think of the film if they had never heard of Charlie Chaplin. For me, it's like a glorious "extra" on the "DVD" of his body of work. Whereas some commenters on IMDB complained about his pithy soliloquies about life and love, I'm quite happy to hang on every word. What I'm saying is, because I'm a solid fan, I find the entire film fascinating, and worthy of mulling over (obviously) for days after watching it.

I hope you get a chance someday to watch A King in New York. I'd love to hear what you think of it.

[charliechaplinfan]

When it comes to Chaplin we think alike, Limelight played on my mind for days afterwards. It was far better than I'd been led to believe, I'm hooked on whatever comment Chaplin wants to make about the world, I've always liked his sense of humanity and think it's a pity that his views got seen in such a negative political way, he's an idealist and a sentimentalist and I love him for it.

[intothenitrate]

I've been a practicing Buddhist since 1986. It's a lay organization, mostly consisting of small groups meeting in members' homes. Of course there's an international infrastructure, with a main leader -- a Japanese gentleman -- whom we trust and admire. He's a prolific writer. A few years back, he published a number of articles about Chaplin's life and thought. When I watch Limelight, I feel as though I'm listening to a Buddhist epistle.

[charliechaplinfan]

I bet Chaplin would really appreciate that, he wasn't a religious man but he was a humanist, it would fit with his world view. He certainly travelled in the Far East, it wouldn't surprise me if he had embraced some of the ideology.