Coming up this week. Beautiful cinematography and wonderful shots. Hawks expressed dissatisfaction with the lack of action in this film, but it's actually quite engrossing.
Probably the weakest part is the Indian portrayals (which were pretty bad in most films of this era), otherwise a nice enjoyable ride. Also contains one of the best drinking songs on film. Thoughts/comments anyone?
The Big Sky (1952)
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Mr. Arkadin
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Mr. Arkadin:
You're right about this movie. The photography is grand, and the trip holds your interest throughout. I've seen it several times since I was about 15, and always enjoy it, I just ignore Kirk Douglas and concentrate on Dewey Martin and Arthur Hunnicutt. Hunnicutt has some great one-liners going for him. Douglas plays his usual over the top fierce, tough guy. If he would only ease up once in a while he may be more entertaining to watch. the indian girl was lovely, wasn't she?
Anne
You're right about this movie. The photography is grand, and the trip holds your interest throughout. I've seen it several times since I was about 15, and always enjoy it, I just ignore Kirk Douglas and concentrate on Dewey Martin and Arthur Hunnicutt. Hunnicutt has some great one-liners going for him. Douglas plays his usual over the top fierce, tough guy. If he would only ease up once in a while he may be more entertaining to watch. the indian girl was lovely, wasn't she?
Anne
Anne
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Mr. Arkadin
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He did get his finger chopped off.mrsl wrote:Douglas plays his usual over the top fierce, tough guy. If he would only ease up once in a while he may be more entertaining to watch. Anne
That would send me over the top as well! Actually, I think Douglas is a bit more laid back in this film. When I was a kid I felt much the same way about his style as you did, but over time I have looked at some of his performances (Lust for Life is a great example) and realize how would anyone else play some of the impassioned roles that he did without that power and prescence? I also felt roles like Out of the Past and The Strange love of Martha Ivers showed his abilty to play complex lower key characters. The Bad and the Beautiful shows both extremes. Last Train from Gun Hill and The Brotherhood also show a depth of character that is long gone in today's acting. Finally, Lonely are the Brave is really the one part Kirk wanted to play (R.P. McMurphy from One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest in disguise) on the silver screen and you can see the joy and innocence in his character.
While Kirk certainly has his critics, even those that dislike his portrayals have to admit that he had an individuality that set him apart from the herd and grabbed your attention--for good or ill.
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Ray Faiola
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Like its predecessor RED RIVER, this film was heavily cut for general release and subsequent reissue. Last time I saw THE BIG SKY on TCM they had a hybrid print with the cut scenes inserted from a 16mm print. This is one of those cases where they made 16mm prints for military release before the film was re-edited after the road show presentations.
I think it's a beautiful film, extremely atmospheric. Several years ago I produced the original soundtrack CD from a set of acetates in the Tiomkin collection. Here's a link if you'd like to listen to the Main Title:
http://chelsearialtostudios.com/bigskymt.mp3
RPF
I think it's a beautiful film, extremely atmospheric. Several years ago I produced the original soundtrack CD from a set of acetates in the Tiomkin collection. Here's a link if you'd like to listen to the Main Title:
http://chelsearialtostudios.com/bigskymt.mp3
RPF
Classic Film Scores on CD
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
Mr. Arkadin:
No argument with your estimation of Kirks' acting skills in roles that call for his ferociousness, but using the films you, yourself mentioned, he was pretty over the top in the normal roles like Martha Ivers, and Out of the Past to my way of thinking. I can't say anything for The Brotherhood because I've never seen it, and your reference to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest fails me because I've never seen it due to Jack Nicholson (another Kirk Douglas type) who goes over the top in most cases. The few films I've suffered Jack in were Terms of Endearment, for Shirley Mac, As Good As it Gets, and A Few Good Men, in which he was again a Kirk type. But in that role, as in many of Kirks roles, the role called for the fierceness.
Both Kirk and his son Michael are so egotistically sure that they are and were God's gift to women, and that point alone turns me off in a hurry. I prefer the take me or leave me type like Mitchum and Lee Marvin who are both ruggededly handsome, but don't push it.
One role I think was made for Kirk however, was the Heston part in The Agony and the Ecstacy. Although I loved Heston until he started spouting his rifle association business, and thought he was great as MichaelAngelo, I still think Kirk would have had that repressed anger better in his verbal bouts with Rex Harrison. Between Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster, you could put them in a paper bag and pull them out by parts, and the various parts would have made one whole. The odd thing is, I'm not a great Burt fan, but I far prefer him to Kirk.
As I've said before, I have to like the lead actor/actress, and when I do, I can take them in anything, just about. If I don't like them however, I simply ignore their movies, unless they are surrounded by folks I like, as in The Big Sky.
Anne
No argument with your estimation of Kirks' acting skills in roles that call for his ferociousness, but using the films you, yourself mentioned, he was pretty over the top in the normal roles like Martha Ivers, and Out of the Past to my way of thinking. I can't say anything for The Brotherhood because I've never seen it, and your reference to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest fails me because I've never seen it due to Jack Nicholson (another Kirk Douglas type) who goes over the top in most cases. The few films I've suffered Jack in were Terms of Endearment, for Shirley Mac, As Good As it Gets, and A Few Good Men, in which he was again a Kirk type. But in that role, as in many of Kirks roles, the role called for the fierceness.
Both Kirk and his son Michael are so egotistically sure that they are and were God's gift to women, and that point alone turns me off in a hurry. I prefer the take me or leave me type like Mitchum and Lee Marvin who are both ruggededly handsome, but don't push it.
One role I think was made for Kirk however, was the Heston part in The Agony and the Ecstacy. Although I loved Heston until he started spouting his rifle association business, and thought he was great as MichaelAngelo, I still think Kirk would have had that repressed anger better in his verbal bouts with Rex Harrison. Between Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster, you could put them in a paper bag and pull them out by parts, and the various parts would have made one whole. The odd thing is, I'm not a great Burt fan, but I far prefer him to Kirk.
As I've said before, I have to like the lead actor/actress, and when I do, I can take them in anything, just about. If I don't like them however, I simply ignore their movies, unless they are surrounded by folks I like, as in The Big Sky.
Anne
Anne
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Mr. Arkadin
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Never would compare him with JN. You're right about Kirks opinion of women and what self assured jerk he was, but if I were to evaluate an artists talent with my approval of their personal lives I would not have many artists to enjoy.
I engineered FOH mixes for quite a few popular music artists and I can tell you there are some extremely talented jerks out there as well as some extremely inept nice people. The bottom line is do you have something to say as an individual statement and the technique to pull it off?
One should never confuse an artists personal life with their gift. They are totally different things and should be treated as such.
I engineered FOH mixes for quite a few popular music artists and I can tell you there are some extremely talented jerks out there as well as some extremely inept nice people. The bottom line is do you have something to say as an individual statement and the technique to pull it off?
One should never confuse an artists personal life with their gift. They are totally different things and should be treated as such.
Last edited by Mr. Arkadin on June 1st, 2007, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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moira finnie
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Hi Anne & Arkadin,
I hope that you don't mind if I jump in here with some thoughts, since I share both of your views about Mr. D.'s career.
I know what you mean about Kirk Douglas' capacity for overacting, but frankly, I find it highly enjoyable in some of his films, especially The Vikings, Spartacus and his repressed rage role in Seven Days in May in which Kirk and his bro' acting-wise, Burt Lancaster, are at their best together, imo. I think that The Big Sky had some very good qualities as previously mentioned, but whenever Douglas seems to have been faced with a pretty lame script, as he did in this film, pulling out all the stops dramatically was often his response. Btw, an even more egregious example of Douglas overdoing everything may be witnessed in another frontier story, The Indian Fighter, also from the '50s.
Some directors seemed to find a way to use his aggressive energy and intelligence and helped him to give some of his best work on film, notably in Champion, A Letter to Three Wives, Detective Story, The Bad and the Beautiful, Young Man With a Horn and Ace in the Hole. Some interesting failures during his early career, in which Douglas attempted some roles that weren't truly commercial at all in nature but were worthy projects for him were Act of Love, The Juggler, and the later, excellent movie, Lonely Are the Brave. As I mentioned sometime ago in a thread called Jumping the Shark, I think Douglas seems to have had two careers, one when he was a fresh young talent and his later movies, when the underlying capacity for preening self-indulgence really comes out and he became a big, honking movie star. Perhaps the biggest artistic sin that Kirk Douglas committed was making too many movies for too long. I also don't think that he ever truly could've mastered the introspective qualities he probably needed to ever be considered as a great actor by the critical community. God knows he gave it a valiant try in Lust for Life and came closest in Paths of Glory, but his physicality always overruled his ability to be still and to portray a true intellectual.
Kirk Douglas, by his own admission in his autobiography, "The Ragman's Son", was a real first class jerk for several years, perhaps in part due to his own immigrant father's lack of wherewithal and alcoholism. He acknowledged that his highly tolerant second wife and his unabashed love for his sons, as well as his awareness of the difficulty of being his offspring were often the best things about his character and life. Since then, Mr. D. has, it seems, in recent years accepted his infirmities and the loss of one of his sons to drugs with considerable grace. His candid admission of his failings and his diminished strength with age make me want to cut the guy some slack.
From what I've read, he has used his wealth to assist many charities through his active support of Unesco, and has taken a special interest in promoting the arts among the poor in the LA area, and has also returned to the faith of his forefathers after half a century of repudiating formal practice of Judaism. Also, the mother of one of my best friend's from college went to St. Lawrence with him, (where he studied on a gymnastic scholarship), and she always said that he was a delightful guy, always eager to focus his phenemonal energy on any fun or constructive project around school. All in all, I think he deserves some kudos and I've some affection and respect for the ol' hambone. We won't see his like again. And he is the last of his kind.
Kirk Douglas, looking hopelessly smug, but ready for his closeup, in the period when he adopted a not so humble opinion of himself...
I hope that you don't mind if I jump in here with some thoughts, since I share both of your views about Mr. D.'s career.
I know what you mean about Kirk Douglas' capacity for overacting, but frankly, I find it highly enjoyable in some of his films, especially The Vikings, Spartacus and his repressed rage role in Seven Days in May in which Kirk and his bro' acting-wise, Burt Lancaster, are at their best together, imo. I think that The Big Sky had some very good qualities as previously mentioned, but whenever Douglas seems to have been faced with a pretty lame script, as he did in this film, pulling out all the stops dramatically was often his response. Btw, an even more egregious example of Douglas overdoing everything may be witnessed in another frontier story, The Indian Fighter, also from the '50s.
Some directors seemed to find a way to use his aggressive energy and intelligence and helped him to give some of his best work on film, notably in Champion, A Letter to Three Wives, Detective Story, The Bad and the Beautiful, Young Man With a Horn and Ace in the Hole. Some interesting failures during his early career, in which Douglas attempted some roles that weren't truly commercial at all in nature but were worthy projects for him were Act of Love, The Juggler, and the later, excellent movie, Lonely Are the Brave. As I mentioned sometime ago in a thread called Jumping the Shark, I think Douglas seems to have had two careers, one when he was a fresh young talent and his later movies, when the underlying capacity for preening self-indulgence really comes out and he became a big, honking movie star. Perhaps the biggest artistic sin that Kirk Douglas committed was making too many movies for too long. I also don't think that he ever truly could've mastered the introspective qualities he probably needed to ever be considered as a great actor by the critical community. God knows he gave it a valiant try in Lust for Life and came closest in Paths of Glory, but his physicality always overruled his ability to be still and to portray a true intellectual.
Kirk Douglas, by his own admission in his autobiography, "The Ragman's Son", was a real first class jerk for several years, perhaps in part due to his own immigrant father's lack of wherewithal and alcoholism. He acknowledged that his highly tolerant second wife and his unabashed love for his sons, as well as his awareness of the difficulty of being his offspring were often the best things about his character and life. Since then, Mr. D. has, it seems, in recent years accepted his infirmities and the loss of one of his sons to drugs with considerable grace. His candid admission of his failings and his diminished strength with age make me want to cut the guy some slack.
From what I've read, he has used his wealth to assist many charities through his active support of Unesco, and has taken a special interest in promoting the arts among the poor in the LA area, and has also returned to the faith of his forefathers after half a century of repudiating formal practice of Judaism. Also, the mother of one of my best friend's from college went to St. Lawrence with him, (where he studied on a gymnastic scholarship), and she always said that he was a delightful guy, always eager to focus his phenemonal energy on any fun or constructive project around school. All in all, I think he deserves some kudos and I've some affection and respect for the ol' hambone. We won't see his like again. And he is the last of his kind.
Kirk Douglas, looking hopelessly smug, but ready for his closeup, in the period when he adopted a not so humble opinion of himself...
Moira, thanks again for your assistance in saying what I intended. I don't know what I would do without you and lzcutter sometimes!. Mr. Arkadin, as in many instances, I mis-worded myself. I agree that personal lives have little to do with acting talents, and rarely associate the two. I mentioned Hestons' NRA business but that didn't stop me from watching his movies, and again moira, considering his Altzheimers, I also consider giving him some slack.
But again, Arkadin, I don't know if you're male or female, most females would definitely see the ego coming through on screen as it does with Michael and Jack. I guess they get so much adulation, it goes to their heads and comes out through some unseen pores in their chemistry. Consider Cary Grant, or Gregory Peck, two exceptionally handsome men, but you never get the sense of egotism from them - its like, "This is how I look, so what?!"
It's Kirks' acting method, of over the top, I dislike, his off-screen personality does not come into the opinion.
Anne
But again, Arkadin, I don't know if you're male or female, most females would definitely see the ego coming through on screen as it does with Michael and Jack. I guess they get so much adulation, it goes to their heads and comes out through some unseen pores in their chemistry. Consider Cary Grant, or Gregory Peck, two exceptionally handsome men, but you never get the sense of egotism from them - its like, "This is how I look, so what?!"
It's Kirks' acting method, of over the top, I dislike, his off-screen personality does not come into the opinion.
Anne
Anne
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Mr. Arkadin
- Posts: 2645
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I would have thought the Mr. gave me away!mrsl wrote:
But again, Arkadin, I don't know if you're male or female, most females would definitely see the ego coming through on screen as it does with Michael and Jack. I guess they get so much adulation, it goes to their heads and comes out through some unseen pores in their chemistry. Consider Cary Grant, or Gregory Peck, two exceptionally handsome men, but you never get the sense of egotism from them - its like, "This is how I look, so what?!"
It's Kirks' acting method, of over the top, I dislike, his off-screen personality does not come into the opinion.
Anne
Seriously though, I agreed with you on Kirk's opinion of himself. I think you will find that if you check my post.
With all due respect to Grant and Peck, I could not envison either of them in films like Lust for Life, The Bad and the Beautiful, or Lonely are the Brave.
We all have actors we like and I understand your preference for Mitchum. He's a great actor, but he's played his share of over the top roles as well. I think also many American 50's films had this stylized sense of performance.
As for comparisons with Nicholson, I am not a fan of his, but what I do like of his work I would not consider over the top. If you compared performances in Out of the Past and Chinatown they're both very low key with maybe a slight edge going to Jack for subtley.
In comparison with Kirk, I see none in their acting styles. Maybe a little built in smug perhaps, but their styles are totally different. That's why JN's performance as R.P. McMurphy to me was a total failure. If you ever read the book you'll understand why Kirk wanted to play this role. The character is totally suited to him.
In closing, this is something we will never see eye to eye on, so let's agree to disagree.
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klondike
According to his biography "The Ragman's Son", Douglas had quite the torrid little affair with Ms. Threatt during the filming of Big Sky, quite brief in duration and mostly al fresco; Kirk claimed she was as stunning in person as she was on camera, but found her psycho-sexual preferences a tad too jarring, and her personality too sad & challenging. (I'll leave details to those opting for the research; it made for an interesting read, but would be a little dicey for repeating out of context.)SHolmes wrote:Having looked over your comments, I do not find anything about Elizabeth Threatt who portrayed Teal Eye (Blackfoot princess). From my copy, on video that I pirated from TCM, Robert Osborn talks about how she was a model and an actual Cherokee Indian. In looking her up on IMdB I find she was born 12 April 1926 at Kershaw, South Carolina. This appears to be her ONLY movie she made and, in my opinion, she made a great impression. I'm not certain I think of her as a really good actress or just because of her alluring beauty. But I love the movie because of her presence in it. She was PERFECT for the part. Howard Hawks could not have found someone better in my opinion. Afterwards, for no reason known to me, or perhaps even you, she left the movie world and was never heard of again.
So I'm wondering if any of you have any further info about this lovely dark eyed woman who only starred in one major motion picture?
Klondike