David Shepard

Past chats with our guests.
User avatar
Ann Harding
Posts: 1246
Joined: January 11th, 2008, 11:03 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Post by Ann Harding »

Thanks for your answer regarding the Paramount silents and the Talmadge films.

I have been doing some research on various Goldwyn silents with Ronald Colman. I found some conflicting stories regarding the surviving status of some of them. Particularly, The Magic Flame (1927) by Henry King. This is one Henry King picture which I think is certainly worth saving because of its interesting script and the beautiful cinematography by George Barnes (as far as I can see from the stills) nominated for an oscar. In one volume about Colman, I read that the first 5 reels were stored at the George Eastman House. When a friend contacted GEH, they replied they didn't have this film on their database. :?:
Does it mean that film archives databases are incomplete? Are films not mentioned because they haven't been restored?

Another Goldwyn silent like that is Two Lovers (1928). I read in Sam Frank's volume about Colman that 7 reels out of 10 are supposed to be at the MOMA. On top, R. Dixon Smith said he saw the film at the MOMA in the 70s. But, when David Packard organised a Colman festival in SF recently, they couldn't find any trace of this film... :?:
catherine
Posts: 19
Joined: November 14th, 2007, 11:41 pm

Post by catherine »

Hello Mr. Shepard,

It would appear that a profession in film preservation is a calling with the meticulous, painstaking attention to detail of neurosurgery. Thank goodness you, Harold Lloyd and countless others had vision as young lads to see the value of a paper route to fund their creative interests!

A day in the life of a preservationist in today's world is of interest to me and has this been addressed in a documentary to your knowledge? A portrait of this profession, with its challenges and technologies may raise interest in silent film, in particular, with the startling discoveries of 'lost' films. There is hope that politically closed doors will open (China, Russia, Japan, Eastern Europe) to provide rare prints and other source material.

Lillian Gish, in her frank autobiography THE MOVIES, MR.GRIFFITH, AND ME, spoke to the fierce competition of the "embryonic movie companies". She states "Piracy was rampant. Unscrupulous rivals stole film prints, remade a few scenes and coolly released the results as their own creations." Like a cattle brand, Biograph would put their trademark initials 'AB' somewhere in each scene, on the doors walls or windows to "block such blatant theft."

Therefore, do you ever really know that you have the print that was intended for distribution by the director and to what degree are today's pirates diminishing/undermining the efforts and expenditure of restorationists?

Thank-you and thank-you SilverScreenOasis for this, Cheerio!
User avatar
cinemalover
Posts: 1594
Joined: April 17th, 2007, 10:57 am
Location: Seattle, Washington

Post by cinemalover »

Mr. Shephard,
Thanks for joining us. I was wondering if you have a "Holy Grail" of missing films that you would love to get your hands on and be able to restore and bring to the attention of a whole new audience? A film that perhaps is thought lost but you've always dreamed of recovering.

Thank you.
Chris

The only bad movie is no movie at all.
DShepFilm
Posts: 10
Joined: November 29th, 2007, 6:38 pm

21 bells and all's well

Post by DShepFilm »

Thanks for your various posts!

To "Gagman 66", wish lists are nice. I have mine too. That and about $3.75 will get you a latte at Starbucks. I even have the DVD of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, but had forgotten about it when writing. But rather than pine for the Paramount films you cannot presently get, I think it would be more constructive to convince everyone you can influence to buy the Ford silents from Fox so that they, and perhaps their comperes from other studios, might be moved to try more of the same.

As to my own wish lists, which Catherine asked about, I greatly regret two films which are apparently lost, TREASURE ISLAND directed by Maurice Tourneur with Shirley Mason as Jim Hawkins and Lon Chaney as Long John Silver; and THE PATRIOT of Ernst Lubitsch (the trailer survives, what a tease!). A tantalising one that exists but which I have never been able to see is GRIBICHE by Jacques Feyder, with Jean Forest. Based upon FACES OF CHILDREN, I would have very high hopes for it.

But fugitive films that actually exist ofen turn up when one least expects them --- Transit has restored and Kino licensed Pabst's SECRETS OF A SOUL, previously available here only in a butchered one-hour version with added narration; Lobster has restored and ARTE is about to release the silent version of Duvivier's POIL DE CAROTTE, which I thought I would never see in my life. (In case my life is suddenly abridged, I was sent an advance copy -- it's wonderful -- and the commercial version will have optional English titles, which mine doesn't). Another "holy grail" which Eric Lange, Jeff Masino and I have restored, almost entirely from prime quality 35mm elements (5 sources) and which will be released in late Spring with a large-orchestra score by Robert Israel, is Abel Gance's LA ROUE, in 4 hours 23 minutes. Remember, before Raymond Rohauer, Keaton's best work was almost un-seeable. In general, I would rather look at the glass half full than the glass half empty.

I know of two documentaries on film preservation. One was made by TCM but the title escapes me; the other is called KEEPERS OF THE FRAME. Kevin Brownlow has written books about his work on NAPOLEON (there's a revised and improved version published only in the UK, which includes a CD of highlights from the Carl Davis score) and UNKNOWN CHAPLIN (published in Bologna in a bilingual edition, and with a DVD of the series included).

I don't know much about the post-1925 silent Goldwyn films. Frances Goldwyn told me that it was her command to junk the Goldwyn silents because they did not attain (her opinion of) Sam's high standards (as represented by PALMY DAYS ?). Fortunately BARBARA WORTH was overlooked and STELLA DALLAS survived outside the studio clutches. I believe MoMA has THE MAGIC FLAME; I am unaware of any others.

The influence of film pirates on restoration is a loaded question. Of course, many films which would otherwise be lost or totally locked away owe their survival or below-the-radar availability to people who blithely ignored such technicalities as copyright protection. BARDELYS was saved by a private collector, for example. We can only be grateful.

On the other hand, Grapevine's open bootlegging (in rather poor quality) of a film like THE GREAT K&A TRAIN ROBBERY, for which Fox owns beautiful elements, might well discourage an authorized edition, plus it is theft for profit, plain and simple.

Close to home, we have been badly hurt by Passport Video's hijacking of almost all of our silent De Mille films, "mastered" from our DVDs, which they issued in a $25 box set only two or three months after we first released several of them, guaranteeing that those titles will never recoup what we spent on them. We cannot afford to sue, either psychically (is this really what I want to fill my mind with for the next three years) or financially (the cost is estimated at $300,000). So I just take solace in the judgment of $2,800,000 won against them by the Elvis Presley estate, which COULD afford to sue -- and did.

With respect to Miss Gish's comments, it is often possible to use non-film sources to determine the authenticity of a film. For example, as I mentioned, we obtained the tint log, cutting continuity and title list to help us make a more or less authentic English version of BARDELYS. The most interesting example of this I ever encountered was STRAIGHT SHOOTING, John Ford's first feature (1917). The original print was in possession of an itinerant showman in Czechslovakia, who would travel around and put on shows with it every summer. During the winter he would re-edit and re-title it, and come back passing it off as a different film the next year. World War II put a stop to his travels and the by-now-unintelligible print made its way to the Czech archive in the 1960s. It was possible to figure out what the film was by the combination of actors appearing in it; then, a detailed synopsis was found in Universal's original application for copyright. I put the bits and pieces back in what seemed to be correct order and wrote titles based upon the synopsis (and of course, upon my knowledge of Ford's later work). I failed (who knew in 1969?) to disclose this process, so when the film was shown, critics commented on how amazingly "Fordian" was this early work (which is actually true -- just not with respect to the titles!).

Mea culpa. Until tomorrow,

David S
User avatar
Ann Harding
Posts: 1246
Joined: January 11th, 2008, 11:03 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Post by Ann Harding »

Thanks for your answer Mr Shepard. The Goldwyn silents are still very much a mystery. I really hope that, one day, somebody will get an interest in The Magic Flame.

I have a piece of news for you regarding Feyder's Gribiche (1925). It was shown last year at the Paris Cinémathèque. I couldn't go, but, thanks God! It's showing again on February 24th at the Musée d'Orsay in Paris (they are organising a festival of French silents).
I am a great fan of Feyder (both his silents and talkies) and I don't want to miss it. The film's story is about a rich American woman (Françoise Rosay, Feyder's wife) who adopts a child from a poor family to give him a life of luxury. The child is played by Jean Forest whom Feyder discovered and cast earlier in both Visages d'Enfants and Crainquebille.
User avatar
MissGoddess
Posts: 5072
Joined: April 17th, 2007, 10:01 am
Contact:

Post by MissGoddess »

With respect to Miss Gish's comments, it is often possible to use non-film sources to determine the authenticity of a film. For example, as I mentioned, we obtained the tint log, cutting continuity and title list to help us make a more or less authentic English version of BARDELYS. The most interesting example of this I ever encountered was STRAIGHT SHOOTING, John Ford's first feature (1917). The original print was in possession of an itinerant showman in Czechslovakia, who would travel around and put on shows with it every summer. During the winter he would re-edit and re-title it, and come back passing it off as a different film the next year. World War II put a stop to his travels and the by-now-unintelligible print made its way to the Czech archive in the 1960s. It was possible to figure out what the film was by the combination of actors appearing in it; then, a detailed synopsis was found in Universal's original application for copyright. I put the bits and pieces back in what seemed to be correct order and wrote titles based upon the synopsis (and of course, upon my knowledge of Ford's later work). I failed (who knew in 1969?) to disclose this process, so when the film was shown, critics commented on how amazingly "Fordian" was this early work (which is actually true -- just not with respect to the titles!).


Oh, how wonderful! As a most besotted John Ford film fan, I would love to know if this movie is available anywhere???? Is it on dvd?
catherine
Posts: 19
Joined: November 14th, 2007, 11:41 pm

Post by catherine »

The glass really is half full and that's what I'll take away from your conversation with us this week. Thank-you again.
Last edited by catherine on January 21st, 2008, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
charliechaplinfan
Posts: 9040
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am

Post by charliechaplinfan »

It's so nice to hear what you have to say. I have seen your name on many of the discs I own and have you to thank for the wonderful quality that makes them so enjoyable.

Being a Brit many of my discs come from the BFI but you made a comment about them, are they in danger of pulling out of the market? They are an invaluable source of DVDs in Britain.

Also I wanted to ask if you knew about two of Mary Pickford's later films Rosita and Dorothy Vernon of Haddon Hall. Is there any chance of these being released on DVD?

I too would like to see some of the Talmadge silents released and Marion Davies. It's frustrating to be able to read about them as actresses but not see them in anything. (they may be available on TCM but the British TCM does not show silents)
SSO Admins
Administrator
Posts: 810
Joined: April 5th, 2007, 7:27 pm
Contact:

Post by SSO Admins »

Thank you so much for joining us this week. As always, you are more than welcome to stop in anytime you like.

My last question has to do with how you come up with the scores for the films. Do you choose the composer to work with based on the material? Are there composers that you prefer to work with? At what point in the restoration process do you begin working on the score?

I will add that my question was inspired by seeing the very nice dedication Robert Israel gave to you on the score for "The Mating Call."
User avatar
Lzcutter
Administrator
Posts: 3149
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:50 pm
Location: Lake Balboa and the City of Angels!
Contact:

Post by Lzcutter »

David,

We met years ago when a friend of mine, Gardner Monks, was your assistant at USC.

I just wanted to say thank you for being here this week, thank you for all your work in film preservation and I hope you have fully recovered from your accident last year (two years ago?).

You worked with Kevin Brownlow and David Gill on the Hollywood series (one of the most magical documentaries I have ever seen and a big influence upon me) and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about the experience and whether or not the series will come to DVD soon.

Thank you again and I hope to see you in person here in Los Angeles one of these days as it has been way too long.
Lynn in Lake Balboa

"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."

"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese

Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
User avatar
Gagman 66
Posts: 613
Joined: April 19th, 2007, 11:34 pm
Location: Nebraska

Post by Gagman 66 »

Dear M. Shepard,

:) Yes, You'll be pleased to know, that I have told all my friends to buy the Ford At Fox Silent's Box set, most of them already have done so!

While it is a good collection, I was disappointed that films such as CAMEO KIRBY (1923) with John Gilbert, THE BLUE EAGLE (1925) with Janet Gaynor, and George O' Brien, and RILEY THE COP (1928), with J. Farrell McDonald, and Louise Fazenda were not included. They could have easily chosen one of these instead of JUST PALS, and a second version of THE IRON HORSE. Still it is definitely gratifying to see some Fox Silent's on official DVD at long last!

You mention the De Mille features, I have the Laser-disc you produced of THE VOLGA BOATMAN, and enjoyed it very much. The print was beautiful! I was wondering is it possible that a restored version of a film like ROAD TO YESTERDAY might be released on DVD by Image or Kino, in the future?

:o Also there has been some discussion on the TCM forum of late about ROMULA (1924), with Gish Sisters, and Ronald Coleman, the only prints I have seen are quite poor, but I understand that better material does exist? I believe this is movie that you have worked on? Is this correct?

:? Strangely A film that no one seems to ever talk about is Richard Barthelmess THE PATENT LEATHER KID (1927), probably because it's a First National picture, made just before the merger with Warner Brothers? Yet Barthelmess was nominated for Best Actor for this film in the first year of the Academy Awards. I have seen this movie, and it is certainly worthy of a proper restoration. The same with Colleen Moore's LILAC TIME (1928). Another First National release, Both Barthelmess, and Moore's First National films in general have been tragically ignored.

:shock: With Harry Langdon just having a DVD set released, it would be nice to see the same thing happen with Raymond Griffith's few remaining comedies. I have seen Three of his features THE NIGHT CLUB (1925), PATHS TO PARADISE (1925), and HANDS UP (1926). I can honestly say that I like Griffith much better than I do Langdon! It's very sad that there seems to be little or no interested in restoring the few films that have survived?

In addition to the two Pickford features mentioned by Ann Harding above, I am rather curious about POOR LITTLE RICH GIRL, THE HOODLUM, and most of all LITTLE ANNIE ROONEY. None of which Milestone has released on DVD? I have all the Milestone Pickford's and my favorites may have very well have been the last two in the series. THROUGH THE BACK DOOR, and LITTLE LORD FAUNTLEROY (Both 1921), both releases were superior with outstanding scores by Robert Israel, and Nigel Holton respectively. Since seeing those, I have dreamed of nicely restored, and elaborately scored version of LITTLE ANNIE ROONEY! I've had the Blackhawk video-tape since 1979!

I also wonder about some of the Hearst Cosmopolitain Pictures Silent's with Marion Davies. The ones made before She signed her deal with MGM. A suprising number of these survive. WHEN KIGHTHOOD WAS IN FLOWER, LITTLE OLD NEW YORK, BEAUTY'S WORTH, JANICE MERIDEITH, ZANDER THE GREAT Etc. Yet little has been done with them, which is discouraging.

I am sorry for getting long winded here again. I already cut this post in half! Trying to save a few inquiers for the last day! In ant event, thank you so much for addressing our questions here this week! And that goes Double for putting up with the likes of me! :wink:
User avatar
CoffeeDan
Posts: 145
Joined: April 25th, 2007, 1:53 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Contact:

Post by CoffeeDan »

Greetings, Mr. Shepard! Thanks for stopping by! So many of the DVDs in my collection bear your name or that of Film Preservation Associates, I had to post here if for no other reason but to say "thank you" for making so many lost film masterpieces available again!

I decided to hang back a while since so many people were asking the questions I wanted to ask (great minds running in the same channel and all that), but now I'm ready with a few of my own.

What effect do you think that censorship has on film restoration today? I know that film censorship was primarily local until the MPPDA issued its code in 1922, and an unforeseen effect was to ensure the integrity of the films censored. Before that, films were cut at the local level, and the cuts often were not restored. Does that make films made before 1922 harder to work with than those made after?

I'm also curious about the Howard Hughes silent films (TWO ARABIAN KNIGHTS, THE RACKET, and THE MATING CALL) that Flicker Alley restored three years ago. On their website, they said the films received a "digital" restoration rather than a "full" restoration. What is the difference? And will these films be available on DVD any time soon?

I remember you speaking in a featurette on TCM about the four-hour restoration of GREED when it was shown for the first time in 1999. What was it like working on that project?

Again, thanks for your time! Hope to see you here again soon!

PS: The TCM documentary on film preservation you mentioned earlier is titled THE RACE TO SAVE 100 YEARS. Even though it's a little outdated today (e.g., some of the lost films it mentions have been found, such as BEYOND THE ROCKS), it's still one of the most graphic and compelling arguments for saving our film heritage.
Last edited by CoffeeDan on January 18th, 2008, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
DShepFilm
Posts: 10
Joined: November 29th, 2007, 6:38 pm

Thursday night -- and one more river to cross

Post by DShepFilm »

Greetings, and thanks for keeping this discussion going. I'll post Friday or Saturday if there are posts tomorrow that ask for a reply.

"Miss Goddess," I see that STRAIGHT SHOOTING is on VHS from Movies Unlimited. AFI exchanged a negative with long-defunct Radim Films, perhaps they sold some prints. I don't have one myself: why? Well, Kevin Brownlow and I once asked D. W. Griffith's film editor, Jimmy Smith, if he wanted to see INTOLERANCE. "God, no," he said, "I saw enough of that when I was working on it!"

Hey, charliechaplinfan, I'm one also. Although Milestone has an exclusive deal with the Mary Pickford Foundation to distribute its films, which I strongly suspect sell rather small numbers, the editions are all produced and financed by the Pickford people. They (actually, Hugh Munro Neely) try to do first rate work. Why not write to them (www.MaryPickford.com) and submit your requests?

There's lots of online discussion about the ever-changing but always-challenged situation at BFI these days. Within the last month I have been told both that video publishing would be shucked off on a commercial outfit that would work in the Institute's name, as was done with publishing; and that they had hired new staff to continue with video themselves. I had to deal with them recently over some Melies films, and within a matter of a few months they established a new trading division (which made our negotiations very complicated) and then liquidated it, along with its personnel.

I think several of the pre-MGM Cosmopolitan films with Marion Davies would be available if someone wanted to acquire, restore and publish them. She was certainly an outstanding comedienne but the costume pictures I saw struck me as less than sparkling. You might hunt up Michael Yakaitis at Library of Moving Images in Hollywood; he's a great Davies fan, and I believe he has many of her films and might make you private copies.

Jon, you asked about scoring. I work with about ten different artists for our silent film music. The choices depend upon who is available at any given time, how much I can afford to spend (determined largely but not exclusively by anticipated income), the size of the accompaniment which the production seems to demand, and my own sense of the sympathy a particular musician might bring to a particular film. I feel honored that all of these talented artists will give their best to silent films if they are not hopelessly overbooked when I approach them, and we have released relatively few scores which I later regret. There were only two instances in twenty years when a finished score was such a misfire that I commissioned another one -- and easily a hundred instances where I was delighted. On the first project or two with a new musician, I like to look at sketches and comment upon work in progress, but after I know we are of one accord, I do not interfere and simply await the finished result. Once that is in, I have been known (but hardly ever) to ask for revisions.

Lynn, when you see Gardner Monks, please remember me to him. The Hollywood series grew in part from an American public television series which was never made, to have been called "The American Film Experience," for which Kevin Brownlow and I wrote scripts. After it fizzled, rights in the scripts reverted to us and some of them were folded into "Hollywood." I also suggested and procured lots of foootage for the shows, and worked with Carl Davis to introduce him to musical practice of the period; but the production was entirely the work of Kevin, David Gill, and the British crew; I was not otherwise involved. A lot of the interviewees were corralled by Bessie Love, who was not credited, but who was delightful (and who fixed great Italian food). One funny memory I have of our time working on this show is when Kevin was reviewing footage at my house. I was taking care of a friend's cat. I had to go out for a couple of hours and cautioned Kevin that the cat must not get out, since he probably would not come back to a strange house. Of course the cat did get out, and Kevin (dressed as always in suit and tie) spent much time crawling aound the neighborhood calling "kitty kitty". When he finally gave up and came home cat-less, the cat was sitting at the door waiting to be let in ...

Gagman 66, the material that survives on CAMEO KIRBY (incomplete, worn source, Czech titles) and THE BLUE EAGLE (also incomplete and in parts streaming with nitrate decomposition) is not suitable for publication. Some day maybe we will do THE ROAD TO YESTERDAY -- we have a 35mm fine grain master. ROMOLA belongs to David Packard who is not an enthusiast of film on small screens --- the bad prints around derive from an ancient 8mm source. The good Raymond Griffith films belong to Paramount, and we discussed that situation earlier this week.

However, THE PATENT LEATHER KID belongs to Warner Bros., and no studio except Disney has done more than they with their very old films. Write to George Feltenstein and maybe he will think of some way to use it somewhere.

Why are you reading this? Go watch a good film!

David S
User avatar
charliechaplinfan
Posts: 9040
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am

Post by charliechaplinfan »

Thanks for your reply. I'll register my request for the Mary Pickford films right away. :) I hope the BFI continue in some way, they have brought some fabulous DVD's to market.
User avatar
Gagman 66
Posts: 613
Joined: April 19th, 2007, 11:34 pm
Location: Nebraska

Post by Gagman 66 »

Dear Mr. Shepard..

:) I will definitely take you advice and try to contact the guy at Warner's concerning THE PATENT LEATHER KID, and LILAC TIME. As well as films like WINE OF YOUTH, and THE COSSACKS. I have yet to see THE COSSACKS, but WINE OF YOUTH I have seen, and I rate this as probably King Vidor's most underrated work! Likewise, thank you ever so much for telling me about the guy in California who has good prints of the early Marion Davies features! Maybe I can twist his arm???

:? One thing I have been meaning to mention. I have a friend from Argentina. Now He has a friend in Argentina. His friend speaks no English, but the man literally has one of the largest archives of Silent films found anywhere in the world! This individual started collecting in the late 40's as I understand. His vaults are largely unexplored for decades on end! Even He himself does not know what is all in there! Many of the films have not been identified to this day! All I can say is, I find it totally inexplicable that this archive has received so little or no attention? Especially considering that it is indeed very possible there could be numerous films stored away in there that are presently considered to be lost! I would like to know what can be done about this before it is to late? I simply can not understand why historian's, and preservationist's the world over, would not be extremely interested in indentifying, and hopefully, even restoring many of these precious films???

:shock: Also much closer to home the Pastor of our local church has several movies in his Attic, I'm assuming Silver-Nitrite, that according to him date back to the First World War! Nothing has been done with them either! He has asked for my advice on what to do with them? His grandparents owned a Cinema during the 1910's, and 20's. I told him to take the prints to the local college film department right away! Don't waste another minute! They could perhaps get in touch with the State University, and determine if any of this material can still be selvedged or not? Any advice that you could provide on how to proceed with this matter, would be greatly appreciated!

:wink: Again, I can't thank you enough for playing host to us this week! I will certainly purchase the new collection from Flicker Alley soon. In addition to this release, do you have any other special project's that are currently in production at this time, that you would be willing to share with us? Thank you in advance, for all you help!
Last edited by Gagman 66 on January 18th, 2008, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Locked