Welcome, Scott O'Brien!

[OScott]

For silentscreen –

From what I have researched so far, yes, Mary Astor and Ann were very supportive of one another, especially in the aftermath of Harding’s divorce from actor Harry Bannister, and then again, when Astor faced scandalous headlines over her own divorce and the published contents of her personal diary. Mary said that Ann was a “vital woman” and a “fighter.” Ann was indignant that Astor was being forced to submit to the conditions decided upon by the court (1935), and lined Astor up with her own attorney. And yes, Olivier had nothing but praises for Ann’s generosity to him as a novice Hollywood actor. She had no vanity, and insisted that Olivier’s role be expanded, and often insisted that close-ups should favor him. Critics felt that for the first time Olivier appeared natural and unselfconscious on film … all due to Harding’s camaraderie.

You almost answered your second question yourself. Ann’s own “falling off of enthusiasm” for filming-making, and Hollywood in general, accounts for her big transition into film obscurity. She later reflected, “I loathed the stupidity in the handling of the material in Hollywood.” While in England (1936-37) Ann made a celebrated tour in Shaw’s Candida, and fell in love with the famed conductor Werner Janssen. After her marriage to Janssen, she was content to accompany him on his world tours. She built up her enthusiasm for films once more in 1941. MGM offered her a color screen-test for the part of Orry Baxter in The Yearling opposite Spencer Tracy. The test turned out very well, and she was excited to return to the screen in something she believed in. When plans fell through for the project, Ann really let go of being a “star,” and contented herself with supporting roles. Ageism? Probably. Ann didn’t fare as well in retaining a youthful appearance, as say, Irene Dunne did. (Irene Dunne did?) The bitchy Hedda Hopper made some rather snide comments about Ann’s appearance when she returned to the screen (after a 5 years absence) for Eyes in the Night in 1942.

Scott

[OScott]

Hi Christy

There was nothing to “unearth” as far as the Kay Francis diaries were concerned – they were there for the taking. It was simply a matter of making an appointment at Wesleyan. The staff there was most helpful and generous with their time. Getting in contact with Kay’s friends Jetti and Lou Ames (whom she had known since 1945) provided the most “insight” into Kay’s true character. I would say the same about myself – if you want to know more about the “real” Scott, ask my friends Craig and Caprice (whom I have known since 1971). Kay’s involvement with the Ames family showed what a caring person she was. She was an "Auntie Mame" to her godsons, who adored her stories and loving presence. Tabor Ames emphasized, “Kay kept your attention, and at the same time paid attention to you.”

As far as the Virginia Bruce research, I was surprised at her involvement with liberal politics from 1938-1950. As a free-lance star she didn’t have a studio clamping down her political activity. She even considered running for the California State Legislature in 1944. And, as you may have guessed, J. Edgar Hoover’s boys had a sizeable FBI file on Ms. Bruce for, as she put it, “wanting to help the little fellow.”

Good question. Thanks!

[moirafinnie]

Hi Scott!
I was wondering if you could please address some areas of Kay Francis' life that intrigue me, especially after reading your book?

Regarding WWII:

Could you please talk about her participation in the USO? She doesn't seem to have done it for publicity, but with real conviction. How active was she in getting the USO organized during the war? Was she also a regular at the Hollywood Canteen begun by her former co-workers Bette Davis & John Garfield?

Since many of the perks she'd enjoyed were lavished on them at the end of her time at Warner's, did she ever harbor any lingering regrets privately about what she'd given up? To be honest, in your book, she seems to have been happier after she left the studio.

What the heck happened between Kay Francis and Phil Silvers that caused him to give that interview in '73 claiming that Kay "had no interest in men"? Did Phil entertain the troops at the front lines as she had in North Africa, or was that just in the movie?

Prior to WWII, could you please explain a bit about her serious involvement with Baron Erik Barnekow? How did he support himself before becoming engaged to Kay? Was he serious about starting an aviation machinery business? Did he have ties to the Nazi party or was he a member of the aristocratic Junker class and therefore loyal to Pomerania (the region he came from in Germany) more than he would have been to Hitler? How did you research his life once he left the U.S. and how did you meet his very understanding son, (who also sounds like a very grounded person).

Kay Francis never seemed to have the slightest interest in politics, though she often tried to help others in concrete ways, and one would have thought she might have become more aware during the Depression and the war. Do you think she had political leanings one way or the other? Was she rather naive in some ways about politics and the international situation in general? Was Kay ever active in the Screen Actors' Guild during its creation in the '30s or later?

Thank you so much for any info you might have about this aspect of Kay's life.

[Birdy]

Scott,

I don't have a questions but also wanted to thank you for being here. I have found the discussion so far very interesting and will look forward to reading your book in the future.

My fave Kay film so far is In Name Only, altho' I'm almost embarrassed to say I think Charlie's Aunt is a HOOT. I have a lot more Kay films to go, though. I may try to borrow some of the Paramount films in the future - I appreciate the opportunity to learn a little more about them.

Is everyone meeting on the Lido?
B

[moirafinnie]

Is everyone meeting on the Lido?
B

Well, I for one plan on being there, Birdy, though I may have to be on the QT. Pretend you don't know me if you see me shooting the breeze with that flatfoot, Sgt. Steve Burke. I'll be the tall job with the high-falutin' accent going by the name of "Countess Barilhaus" and tickling the ivories for the swells.
Your pal,
Barrel House Betty

[silentscreen]

Just want to say a hearty thank-you for all your well thought out, insightful, and entertaining responses to all our questions Mr.O'Brien! I've quite enjoyed it!

[bettyjoan]

Welcome Scott:

I remember that devastating quote about wanting to be forgotten forever. I read it in a fan site some time ago.

What was at the heart of Kay Francis' deep melancholy? I read that she was ambivalent about her bisexuality and overwhelmed with guilt from abortions during her Hollywood heyday.

"Downstairs" was a wonderful film in my estimation. - I know that Jack Gilbert had written the script himself and planned to make a comeback with his naturalistic performance as a charlatan without a conscience. Ms. Bruce and he were proportedly in love during filming and married right after. (You'd never know it though, because her expression of marital love for Paul Lucas is so believable.)

After their marriage Virginia was asked what it was like to be married to a great actor. - She paused, and then, looking at Gilbert, said: "Ask him."

Truly, in "Downstairs" (the only film I've seen her in) Virginia Bruce revealed great range as an actress, playing an innocent, adorable virgin who becomes sexually awakened virtually against her will and then defies her husband's conventional refusal to forgive her: "...You good, good man!"

[OScott]

For Madame la Countess

From the time Kay arrived in Hollywood in 1929, she repeatedly told interviewers that she was focused on saving money. “The only thing I take seriously,” said Kay in one such interview, "is my work and the only reason I take that seriously is because I want to make a lot of money. And as soon as I’ve got that money I’m getting out of here.” This was in 1935 – long before she battled Harry and Jack Warner. Kay also mentioned how important it was to her to be of some service to those in need. By that, she didn’t mean just giving away money (she could be very generous when it came to offering financial help to someone who was struggling), what she really meant was the giving of her own time. The relief of suffering. Oddly enough, it was her battle with Warners that enabled her to let go and do the very thing that she claimed was so important. As early as 1936, Kay became involved with the Red Cross, and when war was declared in Europe she began her work for Bundles for Britain, and doing tours for the USO (along with many other stars). Kay and Myrna Loy shared the night shift at the Hollywood Canteen during 1942. Kay's most famous trek took place in 1942-43. When General Eisenhower asked her if she would entertain nearer the front, in battle zones. She was emphatic, “We want to get to the boys who are doing the dirty work. Please let us go.” GI’s seeing Kay, Carole Landis, Mitzi Mayfair and Martha Raye showing up in the desert (!) it made a huge difference in their morale. Next to The Four Jills Tour, her Arctic Tour (also known as “The Kay Francis Tour”) with Marsha Hunt and Reginald Gardiner (early 1944) was the most publicized.

Kay's most important involvement during WWII was with the Naval Aid Auxiliary Hospital in Corona. She spent hundreds of hours with the wounded and dying. If she sensed that a man was nearing death, she would sit hours with him until he "crossed over." She was also chief coordinator for the entertainers who came to Corona … they were dumbfounded by the devotion Kay put into her work.

In return for all her “service” and “relief of suffering,” the GI’s gave Kay the fortitude and confidence to return to the stage. She claimed they were the best audience anyone could ever ask for. Her stage comeback was the very catalyst which helped her leave Hollywood for good. She made an admirable transition into the next phase of her life. She was spared the indignity of making Trogs, Berserks, and Bunny O’Hares.

Phil Silvers. He always gave the impression that everything was all about him. Perhaps he had heard that Kay had quite a few lovers around that time (Otto Preminger, Mamoulian, aviator Don King, producer Bert Friedlob), made moves, and she snubbed him. I’m only guessing.

Baron Erik Barnekow (a very handsome, intelligent man – I can see why Kay was smitten) attempted to get an aviation business going (Kay gave him money to jump-start the venture), but it never really took off. Then his flying buddy from WWI, Ernst Udet, encouraged Barnekow to return to Germany in 1939 and try out the new planes. After the Russians attacked Pomerania, Erik was committed to the German army. Udet and Barnekow had no idea about the concentration camps, and when they learned the truth, both men committed suicide. My main source for this information was Erik’s son, also named Erik, who today does human growth/potential workshops in Europe.

Kay put more energy in philosophy than she did politics, although she did get a bit ruffled when one reference book stated she was a Republican. According to her friend Jetti, Kay was a registered Democrat. “Kay was a liberal,” Jetti told me.

I have no record of Kay’s participation in The Screen Actors Guild, but Ann Harding was very involved and served as third vice president of the organization in 1933.

Well, our cyber-cruise is nearing San Francisco – "Keep those Golden Gates ajar!" Betty, I can almost hear the cluck, cluck, cluck from your chicken ranch in Petaluma.

Love,
Skippy
(“I gave you a five dollar bill!”)

[moviemagz]

Hi Scott, I haven't yet read your book but I'm looking forward to getting it. Kay Francis seems to have most disputed date of birth (actually year of birth) of any movie star. I've seen anywhere from 1897 to 1905 listed. What was the year and can you tell us how you determined it?

I love Kay in IN NAME ONLY best, it's intriguing to see her in kind of a Gail Patrick role in this film yet she holds her on and then some and make no mistake is the third star of the picture.

I'm fascinated by your publisher Bearmanor Media who seems to be about the only publisher around these days who are interested in stars from the golden era. I'm considering doing a book on Una Merkel for them could I perhaps ask for some of your tips in research. Feel free to email me privately if you want to comment on some things not on the net. Thanks! Wonderful to hear you are doing a book on Virginia Bruce, I love it when a "second level" star gets some attention, they are often as fascinating as the superstars. You mentioned how you were drawn to Kay, what is the history of your interest in Virginia?

[moirafinnie]

A few last questions before you run away for a much-deserved respite after a busy week, Scott, please.

Three of Kay's co-stars are among my personal favorites as actors of the studio era, Herbert Marshall, Ian Hunter and Brian Aherne. Could you please comment on Kay Francis' work and personal friendships with these seemingly forgotten fellows?

In September, TCM will be featuring Kay Francis as the Star of the Month each Thursday.

Would you recommend any particularly choice (and very rarely seen ) Kay Francis films from the TCM schedule for us to see among those listed here please? Is there any chance that you might make an on-camera appearance to enliven the discussion of the actress with Mr. Osborne?

Lastly, thank you so much for giving of your time, and sharing your enthusiasm and depth of knowledge about Kay Francis, Virginia Bruce and Ann Harding. I hope that you will continue to post whenever you'd like to comment on any subject here on the SSO and, when time permits and the publication date for your forthcoming book on Miss Bruce is nigh, I hope that you'll consider making a return visit with us.

It's been a pleasure, and, unlike that One Way Passage, one without a bittersweet ending.

[MissGoddess]

I'm coming late on board for this discussion but it's been a pleasure as I am a fan of Miss Francis and take every opportunity to record her films as they air on TCM (I recorded Mary Stevens, M.D. and took it with me on my trip). My only question is whether you may have heard any promising rumors that One-Way Passage or Jewel Robbery may perhaps be coming to dvd?? How I adore both of these films!!!!!

[OScott]

Bettyjoan

If Kay carried any melancholy into her later life it would have been rooted in her disappointment over fiancé Barnekow’s betrayal and disappearance (she really loved the guy), and her mistreatment from Warner Brothers. Kay’s friend Jetti Ames told me that Kay simply referred to the Warner’s episode as her “great struggle,” and never gave any details. The late Bob French (a big Kay fan) met Kay through a couple who were in the management of Bergdorf-Goodman (where she frequently shopped during retirement). Bob told me that the couple confided to him that Kay had been bitterly disillusioned by Baron Barnekow. I don’t know how deep Kay’s melancholy was – everyone carries around emotional baggage of some sort or other.

As far as her abortions? I don’t believe Kay had any regrets about them. Many, many big stars of Hollywood’s Golden age had them. Many considered abortion a viable form of birth control. (Remember, contraceptives were not available to women in the US until 1938). The abortions must have been rough on her physically, but she maintained her sense of humor. After one such operation she noted in her diary, “Hope this is the last of the Mohicans!”

John Gilbert did not want an unknown to play opposite him in Downstairs (MGM paid him 1 cent to produce his story! That’s how important it was to him to get it filmed). Gilbert refused to do a test with Virginia. When he finally saw her test, he was impressed. He proposed to her only nine days after meeting her. “You could have knocked me over with a ping-pong ball!” Virginia later reminisced. Gilbert was really smitten, and so was she. Their traumatic marriage helped Virginia grow leaps and bounds as an actress. And you are right, Virginia comes across as a cinematic veteran in Downstairs. (Be sure and check out the cover for the Bruce biography at www.bearmanormedia.bizland.com I should also have a Virginia Bruce Website up in a couple of weeks).

Scott

[OScott]

Moviemagz

Kay’s birth date is definitely January 13, 1905. Her friend Jetti Ames was adamant about it, saying, “There is no reason Kay would lie to me!” Kay’s parents married in New York City’s Little Church Around the Corner in December 1903. They moved to Oklahoma City in 1904. The hotel Kay was born in opened that same year (her father Joseph S. Gibbs was the hotel manager). A 1910 census listed 5-year-old Katherine E Gibbs in attendance at a Catholic School in Fort Lee, New Jersey. So, there you have it!

Una Merkle! Great! When I get a chance I’ll go through my files and see if I have anything on Una and pass them on to you. From what I have read about her she was genuine and down-to-earth. BearManor is a blessing to classic film fans. The publisher Ben Ohmart has an impressive selection of books for classic film/radio/tv lovers.

The thing that attracted me to Virginia Bruce, Ann Harding, and Kay was their on-screen persona. They came across as real people. All three women belong to that blessed school of understatement and natural acting. I had seen Virginia do a great job playing the “heavy” in The Great Ziegfeld, and Born to Dance. I really took note of her when I saw the 1934 curio Dangerous Corner – a great little philosophical-mystery film about how we perceive “truth.”

Thanks Una-fan!

[OScott]

Moira

Jetti Ames said Kay was very fond of Bart Marshall and kept in touch with him up through the early 1950’s. Kay and Marshall may have had an affair shortly before her divorce from Kenneth MacKenna in 1934. During her work at Corona Naval Hospital Kay invited Marshall (who had lost a leg in WWI) to visit the wounded servicemen. It was a real morale booster for these guys, and Marshall was wonderful with them. As far as Ian Hunter and Brian Aherne? I have no anecdotes to tell. I know that Kay mixed socially with the British Colony, and asked Aherne, and then wife Joan Fontaine, to host a young Brit in the RAF (1941).

My “Top 10” pix from TCM’s lineup for Kay in September:
1- Trouble in Paradise
2- One Way Passage
3- Confession
4- In Name Only
5- House on 56th Street
6- Give Me Your Heart
7- Mandalay
8- Keyhole
9- Notorious Affair
10- Another Dawn
Runners up: Cynara, Man Wanted, Street of Women, Allotment Wives, Mary Stevens, M.D.

I am not guesting on TCM (would like to), but for those living in the San Francisco Bay Area, I will be talking with movie maven Jan Wahl about Kay and Virginia Bruce, on KRON-TV's Saturday a.m. show (August 2nd)

I would love to return for another voyage on the SSO, and so would Virginia!

Well, I can see that there are only a few drops left in my Paradise Cocktail (“So precious, the last few drops!”)

Scott

[OScott]

MissGoddess of Manhattan (Kay’s old stomping grounds)

Alas! I have heard no rumors of any DVD release of the films you mention. However, with Kay being Star of the Month in September, let us hope that Turner has at long last heard the collective pleas of Kay’s legion of fans, and that a "Kay Francis Collection" will be forthcoming.

Scott