Welcome to Eve Golden, Biographer of John Gilbert

Past chats with our guests.
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moira finnie
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Welcome to Eve Golden, Biographer of John Gilbert

Post by moira finnie »

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In 1927 John Gilbert said "It's all very well to make pictures of these heroes and villains of the past, but are they honestly and truthfully any more romantic than the man who fills my gasoline tank? How do you know what emotions the man across the street from you is experiencing? How do you know what love has come into his life, what he feels?"

The Silver Screen Oasis is pleased to welcome Eve Golden, the author of John Gilbert: The Last of the Silent Film Stars (The University Press of Kentucky), who will be our guest this weekend on Sat. May 18th and Sun. May 19th. Here's where we can post our questions for Eve and read her responses this weekend.

Perhaps this visit from Eve Golden is our chance to discover some of the answers to the above questions applied to the handsome, mercurial and talented actor who is so often cited as a prime example of the destructive power of Hollywood's transition to sound.

To begin, I would like to thank Eve for visiting us again and ask why she was drawn to write about John Gilbert?
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by JackFavell »

Hi, Ms. Golden! I'm so happy to see you here at the Oasis! I want to thank you for writing about John Gilbert, one of the most misrepresented of film stars.

I think John Gilbert was one of the best leading men we've ever had in film. His ability to get across even the smallest moment with a gesture or a look made him the most expressive leading actor of his time, with the possible exception of Lon Chaney. He and Chaney had that same depth and ability to show deep struggle and feeling. Did they know one another?

Did Gilbert have any theatrical heroes? Did he study any actors that you know of? How did he become the actor he did? I do know he was 'born in a trunk', so to speak.

I wanted to ask you about Gilbert's relationships (or lack thereof) with his mother and father. Was the meeting with his father during the filming of one of his movies a turning point at all for Gilbert? Did this traumatic moment affect his life, or was he always subject to depression, on a trajectory toward self destruction and darkness of temperament, thanks to his terrible childhood?

Were you able to find any of his writings and read them? I've read that he could have been a tremendously good writer, had he chosen to do so.

How did you go about the research for the book? It seems like there are so few people left to really talk to, or interview. I think much of the information we have now is from one or two people who may or may not be reliable sources.

Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate the chance to talk to you about this most expressive of actors.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by CoffeeDan »

Good morning, Ms. Golden! I finished reading your book on John Gilbert last week, and I just wolfed it down -- I finished it in less than four days. Really a fine piece of work, and I say it because I have also done a lot of research on John Gilbert (intensely in the last 20 years or so), and even attempted to write my own life of Gilbert before I gave up in frustration. So I am thankful and eager for this opportunity to "compare notes," if I may.

There's an elusive quality about Gilbert I find both appealing and irritating. Sometimes, in the course of my research, I would get close enough to almost touch him, and then he would fade away. I would redouble my efforts, once again get tantalizingly close, and again he'd escape me. It was like chasing a feral cat (and I'm really good with cats!).

Truer words were never spoken when his second wife, Leatrice Joy, compared him to mercury, saying: "Touch him, and he'd vanish." That happened many times as I've researched his life. Put another way, every time I solved a mystery in his life, two more sprang up in its place. That's why I eventually gave up on writing his life -- there were finally more loose ends than I could cover, although my research continues.

In that light, my question to you is this: Did you find the same thing(s) happen to you when you were writing about Gilbert, and if so, what kept you going? I'd really appreciate your insight!
Last edited by CoffeeDan on May 18th, 2013, 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Ms Golden,

Did John Gilbert has any rivals of his own? ... What is his take on movies that being destroyed (for example, Bardelys the Magnificent, back in 1926) ... And, my favorite movie of all time ... Queen Christina (1933) of which Greta Garbo played the queen in this movie ... not a bad cast with Director Rouben Mamoulian at the helm.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by mongoII »

Dear Ms. Golden, welcome to the Oasis. It's nice having you visit here.
To begin I would like to get some speculation of John Gilbert settled once and for all.
Was he really left standing at the altar in 1927, after Greta Garbo got cold feet about marrying him?
Is it true that he had a huge enemy in Louis B. Mayer after Gilbert pummeled Mayer while defending lady love Greta Garbo's honor?
Also it is said that Mayer himself, and/or his chief sound engineer, manipulated the knobs of Gilbert's first talking films so that a perfectly adequate speaking voice came out on the big screen as ridiculously high pitched?
And when the actor's shrill declarations of love in "His Glorious Night" (1929) hit movie theaters, audiences howled with laughter?
Was his short marriages due to his drinking, or the fact that he was still in love with Garbo?
I would appreciate a reply that may shed some light on these questions.
Thank you very much.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by egolden »

Moira, thanks for having me back! As for Jack (I hope you will forgive me the familiarity), how can you not love him? So talented, funny, smart, gorgeous--and so screwed up, poor thing. Thank goodness so many of his films were available for me to see, and that no author had really gotten around to him, other than his daughter.
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Post by egolden »

Jack (Favell, not Gilbert)--He was a wonderful actor, wasn't he? There are several scenes where he is only seen from the back, and manages to get across a performance just through body language. He learned to act on the job: that's why being a stock player at Triangle was so important to him. Got the kinks out before being thrust into leading roles.

Jack and Lon Chaney worked together twice, and according to Jim Tully (who is not always to be trusted), they did not get along. Chaney found Jack to be too bumptious and his mood swings were not always easy to deal with.

His childhood was not good, and he was bitter toward his mother and his birth father, but had a good relationship with his stepfather, Walter Gilbert (all three were successful stock performers). I think his mother, Ida Adair, was given a bum rap in a lot of writings, though--she was a single mother, doing the best she could under very trying circumstances.

I was very lucky that my ace researcher, James Zeruk, found lengthy interview notes writer Gladys Hall took down between 1924-33, so I had Jack's own uncensored words, before the fan-mag editors got their hands on them. I was able to quote him, not Photoplay's version of him! That was a huge help and I hope gets his voice across.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by egolden »

Coffeedan, I am so glad you liked the book, esp, as you are an expert on John Gilbert yourself! He really was such a complex character--he didn't understand himself, and no one really understood him. All I could do, really, was sit back and let his quotes, his friends' quotes, and his actions speak for themselves.

I like him, but he must have been an awfully frustrating person to deal with. Terrible husband, fun coworker but awful employee--I actually felt sorry for Louis B. Mayer, can you imagine having to deal with Jack Gilbert complaining about everything, constantly?

I must add that all of his ex-wives and ex-lovers--except Garbo!--spoke lovingly and fondly of him, no matter how tortured their breakups were. That speaks volumes, I think.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by egolden »

Miss Hayworth, John Gilbert was never happy with any of his films, except for The Big Parade. He did not think he was a good actor--called himself a ham--and complained endlessly about the writing, direction, casting and even sets and costumes of his films.

Queen Christina was a horrible experience for him, though he was very grateful to Garbo for giving him the work. But being back at MGM, with a vengeful Louis B. Mayer and an uncaring crew around him, nearly killed him. It was not much of a role, either; all he had to do was gaze longingly at Garbo. he found everyone but her to be impatient and no one would give him any input at all. Honestly, I don't know what he was thinking--he didn't need the money, and he had to have known that MGM was not going to welcome him back with open arms!
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Post by egolden »

Mongo, of course I was not there, so all I can do is ferret out what facts we do know, and tell readers "this is what I think happened, and here's why I think so."

That 1926 double wedding was blown out of the water by Karen Swenson in her excellent Garbo bio. They had never applied for a wedding license, and none of their friends ever saw Garbo say (or even indicate) that she would marry Jack. He asked her--again and again--as was his wont, but she kept him at arm's length. I think Garbo (only 20, remember, barely speaking English and very lonely) was swept off her feet by John Gilbert--who wouldn't be? But I don't think she was nearly as in love with him as he was with her.

The Mayer/Gilbert fistfights--one described by Eleanor Boardman and another by Sam Marx--I do not think happened, and I go into why in the book. But Mayer and Gilbert did hate each others' insides, no doubt about that. There was no mike-fiddling going on, though. For one thing, his voice sounded fine (and it sounded pretty much the same in all his 1929-34 talkies), and that kind of technical sabotage was just not possible in 1929.

Audiences did laugh at His Glorious Night--I laughed at His Glorious Night. It is a horrible, horrible film.

His marriages were brief because he was a dreadful husband--he drank, he was selfish and pig-headed, he yelled, he was basically a bi-polar mess, poor thing. But all his wives--after having escaped his clutches--remembered what fun he could be too, and looked back on him with great fondness.


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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by Gagman 66 »

:) Hello Ms. Golden Welcome to SSO, thank you so very much for gracing us with your knowledge and presence here. Gilbert was such a charismatic figure. There have been so many misconceptions about him in the past. For to long now, he has primarily been known for the the four films he made with Garbo. And that is indeed a shame. He was so much more versatile of an actor then he has generally been portrayed. It's quite gratifying to see interest in his life and career being rekindled at last.

Inspired by your biography, it would be nice if TCM could produce a documentary on Gilbert. Maybe Warner's actually has something in the works? Part of the special features included in the upcoming Blu-ray and DVD Editions of THE BIG PARADE perhaps? Are you aware of anything that you can talk about? Of course I have waited and waited for THE BIG PARADE to receive it's long overdue release and I'm pleased that it finally is coming to pass later this year. Lack availability of over the years has been frustrating to say the least. As a result, the reputation of THE BIG PARADE has suffered. Hopefully, it will be become a true revelation to critics and classic movie fans alike. It was definitely for me, this is literally my favorite movie ever, Silent or Sound.

I'm curious are there any of Jack's lesser known surviving Silent films that you are particularly fond of? Perhaps a HIS HOUR or maybe 12 MILES OUT? I know that a few years back some footage of WIFE OF THE CENTAUR turned up in a Manhattan Antique store. Did you get to see this? Again, I believe it was only a fragment, but I would be elated to find out otherwise.

Thank you, and I look forward to reading your comments.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by moira finnie »

Eve, thank you for your interesting comments. Your mention of Gilbert's sound financial position--even after the Wall Street Crash of '29--made me wonder why he clung so fiercely and self-destructively to his acting career. He talked about taking a yacht around the Pacific and even becoming a writer (and showed signs of some talent, based on Downstairs). He never needed to work again, but he still needed his career, even after it became clear that Hollywood was never going to fully accept him again as a leading man. Why do you think Jack was so devoted to acting?
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Post by egolden »

Gagman, I tried to get Warner Home Video to put out a John Gilbert Collection, and when I finally reached the right person, he said, "Ha-hahahaha, yeah, that's not gonna happen." Oh, well.

TCM is doing a whole John Gilbert Day this summer, and they have been kind enough (after much pleading from me) to make my book May's Book of the Month, so he (and I!) have been getting lovely little mentions every so often.

Of his silents, I found His Hour to be surprisingly enjoyable (and sexy--it is Elinor Glyn!), The Show, ditto (despite the watering-down of his character, which he himself complained about), and I think my favorite Garbo/Gilbert film is Love--has the best acting, direction and character development (again, despite that ending). I never did get to see whatever there was of Wife of the Centaur, though I saw a lot of rare films at MoMA and the Library of Congress.
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Post by egolden »

Moira, Jack wanted to work--acting, directing, writing, whatever. He told Gladys Hall in the early '30s that he could sit in his lovely home atop the hills and listen to opera records and read and garden and go golfing, and that he would go mad very quickly. He had to be out doing something.

He did lose some money in the '29 crash, but thanks to an excellent and honest business manager, he was set, financially. Also, he had that money ($500,000 per year) coming in from MGM and he would not give that up for anything, out of spite if nothing else.

But he burned so many bridges, and his health and his drinking were so bad, that few would hire him. What's so sad is that he was finally on the road back in 1935: Marlene Dietrich--bless her little cotton socks--had gotten him character work at Paramount, and he could have gone on to an Adolphe Menjou-type career, which he'd have been happy with, but then he died.
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Re: Welcome to Eve Golden, Our Guest Author in May

Post by JackFavell »

Thanks Ms. Golden, for the quick replies and thoughtful answers! It's a shame that Warner's has no plans for a John Gilbert collection. Sigh.

Was there anything about Gilbert that surprised you? Do you have a favorite performance by Gilbert? I think I read that The Big Parade was your favorite, but is there another film that won you over?

What do you think actually led him to such self destruction? You mention bi-polar disorder. Did this seem to be a problem all through his life, or did it gradually grow stronger as he aged? When did he start drinking?

I know King Vidor and Monta Bell were close to him, but it seems as if they were always trying to help him out, or into better roles. Did he have any male friends who were just friends, not in the business or in a position of power? Was he friendly with other actors? Was he competitive?

Which of his films did you get to see at special locations like MoMA and The Library of Congress? Are there any that you wish you could find?

Some of Gilbert's films that had bad reputations ended up pleasing me, maybe because I had no expectations. I enjoyed his performance in Redemption, for instance. I felt he captured the spirit of the story it's based on exactly, to the letter, and that it was a superb role for him, even if the movie itself is not quite all it could be due to other factors. Gentleman's Fate is also worth watching, and Downstairs is extremely good. Did you have the same reaction to certain films that had been panned?
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