Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

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Lucky Vassall
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Lucky Vassall »

RedRiver wrote:I prefer Whale's film, though neither is a great favorite. I heard Mrs. Oscar Hammerstein was at a party, and somebody said Jerome Kern wrote "Ol' Man River." Mrs. H said, "No. My husband wrote 'Ol' Man River'. Jerome Kern wrote DUM-DUM-DUM-DUM!"
Dear Mrs. H: "You Can't Have One Without the Other!"
[size=85]AVATAR: Billy DeWolfe as Mrs. Murgatroid, “Blue Skies” (1946)

[b]“My ancestors came over on the Mayflower.”
“You’re lucky. Now they have immigration laws."[/b]
[i]Mae West, The Heat’s On” (1943[/i])

[b]:–)—[/b]
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Lucky Vassall
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Lucky Vassall »

Fossy wrote:I have three versions of Showboat in my collection.
Thanks for the info. I assume the 3rd version is the 1929 silent. Would be interesting to learn your reaction to that version, either compared to the other two or standing by itself.
[size=85]AVATAR: Billy DeWolfe as Mrs. Murgatroid, “Blue Skies” (1946)

[b]“My ancestors came over on the Mayflower.”
“You’re lucky. Now they have immigration laws."[/b]
[i]Mae West, The Heat’s On” (1943[/i])

[b]:–)—[/b]
Pinoc-U-no(se)[/size]
RedRiver
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by RedRiver »

I like that the character Kim was born on the border of Kentucky, Illinois and Missouri. KIM!
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Fossy
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Fossy »

Show Boat (1929)

This film was originally part silent, part talkie and part singing. It begins with an overture of a couple of songs by stars from the Ziegfeld stage show, including Hey Fella by Aunt Jemima and her Jubilee Orchestra, Bill, sung by Helen Morgan. Old Man River sung by Jules Bledisloe was announced but not sung. (just one of the deletions).

Basically the story is the same as in the later versions, but with a few exceptions. Magnolia (Jane La Verne) as a little girl is overheard by Parthenia (Emily Fitzroy) telling Julie that she wished Julie was her mother. Julie is sacked on the spot.

As an adult Magnolia (Laura La Plante) meets her new leading man Gay (Joseph Schildkraut) and it is love at first sight. Against Parthenia`s wishes they marry. Their daughter Kim (Jane La Verne in a dual role) is born during a storm. During the same storm Captain Hawks is drowned. After a few years Gay decides he cannot stand his mother-in-law any longer. Magnolia sells her share in the Show Boat to her mother for $20000.00 and leaves with Gay and Kim. Gay loses the money gambling and eventually dumps his family.

Kim is placed in a convent, and Magnolia returns to the stage where she is a great success.

On her retirement, she is told that Parthenia has died, Kim is overseas with her husband, and a lonely Magnolia is standing on the upper deck of the Show Boat. Gay arrives and they are reunited.

This movie was a pleasure to watch.
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Lucky Vassall
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Lucky Vassall »

Greatly appreciate the summary, Fosse. It sounds like a version I would very much enjoy.
[size=85]AVATAR: Billy DeWolfe as Mrs. Murgatroid, “Blue Skies” (1946)

[b]“My ancestors came over on the Mayflower.”
“You’re lucky. Now they have immigration laws."[/b]
[i]Mae West, The Heat’s On” (1943[/i])

[b]:–)—[/b]
Pinoc-U-no(se)[/size]
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Lzcutter »

According to a variety of sources, George Feltenstein at WBros has long wanted to put out a deluxe set of Showboat featuring all three versions.

The hold up is said to be the condition of the 1951 elements. One of the Technicolor reels has badly deteriorated and restoration of that version is proving more difficult than originally anticipated.

Here's hoping they are able to restore it!
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Rita Hayworth »

I prefer the 1936 version over the 1951 version and ... I did not know about the 1929 version that Fossy talked about earlier on this thread. 1931 version was more believable and the 1951 version had more star power - but some reasons that the 36 version is more fun, original, and I'm more in tune with Irene Dunne than Kathryn Grayson of both played Magnolia. That's was the main reason why I like the 36 version better than the 51 version.
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by RedRiver »

In the book, Edna Ferber's love of theatre shows through and through. One of the characters suggests an impressionistic method of set construction. In real life, the idea revolutionized theatrical scene design!
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Belle »

In my opinion the Technicolor 1951 "Showboat" is superior. It is orchestrated by the magnificent Conrad Salinger, and it has the stunning dance team Marge and Gower Champion. The lush restoration has only improved everything about it. The two weaknesses are Ava Gardner and Katharine Grayson; neither is convincing. The latter is more associated with musicals from the 'other' unit at MGM, Joe Pasternak. The Freed Unit was far superior, in every way. It was referred to as "the royal family" at MGM.

Kern said that Conrad Salinger 'over-orchestrated' his music, but Kern had already died when "Showboat" was released. And the orchestration is absolutely stunning. Salinger was nonpareil in the realm of film orchestration.

(I'll be posting a separate thread about Conrad Salinger soon.)

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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Belle »

kingrat wrote: May 2nd, 2023, 10:43 pm One of the differences between the 1936 and 1951 versions is that Allan Jones is a tenor Gaylord and Howard Keel is a baritone. The head voice-y tenor is authentic to the stage original, but I prefer Howard Keel's baritone. 1951 also has "Life Upon the Wicked Stage," another plus. Irene Dunne is a better actress than the lovely Kathryn Grayson, but that isn't news to anyone here.
I very much admired Irene Dunne and her screwball and other roles!! She had a fine voice too, but I think for "Showboat" a theatrical voice was probably more desirable. One which projected from the stage to the back of the theatre, is what I mean. I loved Keel's voice and thought he fitted his roles in musicals very well. (I loved little Kim dancing with Captain Andy with the kane in that brief segment of the 1951 version; magic!)

Here's a recording from John McGlinn where the late Jerry Hadley (he's much missed!) is singing Gaylord. With Frederica von Stadt as Magnolia; she's got power and a great range. I felt Dunne and Grayson were both canaries in comparison, to be honest.



This is an absolutely superb recording, by the way!! McGlinn's is supposed to be the 'authentic' version, chapter and verse with the original score - and it has a more 'classical' orchestration in many of the numbers than the Freed Unit film. There are significant changes made for the film and, of course, Salinger's extraordinary orchestrations suited that modestly-sized MGM orchestra (LAPO musicians). Listen to the overture of the McGlinn. It's a volcano!! Right away the tragedy which is coming is heard in the opening bars!! This is TO-DIE-FOR!!! Kern was a highly-trained composer in the classical tradition and you get a real sense of his musical sophistication from this studio recording much more so in the film, which was very good in it's own special way. (MGM's Salinger had studied at the Paris Conservatoire also!)

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Swithin
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by Swithin »

Just catching up with this thread to say that the 1936 Show Boat is one of the great musical films of all time. I don't think the pleasant enough 1951 version comes close. Those three songs near the top of the film -- "Make Believe"to "Old Man River" to "Can't Help Loving that Man" are breathtaking and unequaled in just about any other film. William Warfield has a fine voice in the 1951 version, but the scene is shot rather pedestrian and can't compare to Paul Robeson's song, directed by James Whale, who knew how to use a camera. And then there is Helen Morgan and Irene Dunne, Charles Winninger and Helen Westley, and Allan Jones. Nothing can touch it. Also, the 1951 version basically ditched Hammerstein's script, cleaning it up a bit for the 1950s. Also making Magnolia and Gaylord too young, later in the film.

At the end of the 1951 version, Ava Gardner is on shore, watching the show boat sail away, with Magnolia and Gaylord on it. I much prefer Ava on shore at the end of On the Beach, watching Gregory Peck's submarine depart. (Though Ava is lovely and gives a good performance in 1951, they should have persisted with their attempts to get an actress who didn't need to be dubbed.)

And of course there is Helen Morgan's "Bill" scene, in 1936.

Just look at this clip of Paul Robeson. Compared to this, William Warfied seems to be giving a lieder recital!

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BagelOnAPlate
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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by BagelOnAPlate »

I can't grasp why MGM replaced Ava Gardner's track of "Can't Help Lovin' That Man" in the released version of the 1951 Showboat with Annette Warren's recording.

Here's the sequence with Ava Gardner's singing restored:

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Re: Showboat 1936-1951, which is best.

Post by TikiSoo »

BagelOnAPlate wrote: August 5th, 2023, 4:08 pm I can't grasp why MGM replaced Ava Gardner's track of "Can't Help Lovin' That Man" in the released version of the 1951 Showboat with Annette Warren's recording.
Thanks for that clip, Bagel- I don't know why they dubbed anyone singing in movies. There is a sincerity to a person's real performance that you can hear & feel, while a dubbed voice is more separated from the performance.

I have a DVD of both versions and frankly, I didn't like either. I do agree Paul Robeson's Ole Man River is the highlight of the movie & had more impact. I also tend to agree with Swithin that Whale's deft direction makes the '36 version the better one. (although I'm a huge Howard Keel fan)
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