The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters.

Essential?

Moderators: Sue Sue Applegate, movieman1957, moira finnie, Lzcutter

RedRiver
Posts: 4209
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: Essential?

Postby RedRiver » October 11th, 2014, 4:03 pm

Then there are the generational differences. I know some young people who think VULGAR and FUNNY are the same thing. If somebody says Doo-Doo, it's hilarious!

User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3924
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Essential?

Postby ChiO » October 11th, 2014, 4:51 pm

Ha-ha-ha! He wrote doo-doo. (I'm young at heart.)
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8175
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Essential?

Postby moira finnie » October 11th, 2014, 7:07 pm

How is Stella Dallas an essential? An essential weepie? An essential movie about mother love? Jeez, so was Now Voyager in my book. Well, before the sky falls, I just gotta say that Stanwyck is good in this impossible part, but she's been better. Lots better. And it wasn't when she played a martyred mom. But that's just one viewer's opinion. Would others argue that Stella Dallas was really an essential?

Is an essential a movie that demonstrated the pinnacle of a genre or performance? I've never been sure.
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks

User avatar
fxreyman
Posts: 41
Joined: May 1st, 2009, 10:16 pm
Location: Libertyville, Illinois

Re: Essential?

Postby fxreyman » October 12th, 2014, 7:02 pm

Based on the writings so far on this thread I can honestly say that some have indicated that they aren’t so interested in the selection of certain films to be included as an “Essential” but rather that the actual conversation of the film should be longer in some regards.

I would agree with this opinion. I think that whomever is the co-host with Robert Osborne should at least have an idea or thought process about the movie they are showing on the particular evening that they show the film.

In my opinion there has only been one really good co-host with Robert and that was Alec Baldwin. Now I am not a fan of the Baldwin’s personal views about politics but I will say that he has a very good knowledge of how a film is made and can at times equal Robert’s enthusiasm for a film, not so much the history behind a film, but rather having an opinion that is really based in part on his own career and what he has seen in the movie-making process.

I wish that if and when Robert does retire that he is replaced by Baldwin. That could still be ten years off, I mean Robert has gotten a little slower but he is still very vibrant and his vast knowledge of old time Hollywood comes in handy when discussing films on TCM.

Or maybe the best thing to do would be to pair Robert back up with Alec?

Although when I did subscribe to TCM I almost always watched at least the beginning of the Essentials to see exactly what RO and AB would have to say about the film being shown as an Essential. But in my opinion they need to expand the opening a little, maybe make it a fifteen minute opening where both RO and AB can discuss the film at length. And then after the film another fifteen minute closing discussion.

Then the Essentials would become a classroom of sort for the introduction to classic film and the new viewers and some of us older viewers (of the channel) could get more quality discussion rather than just the five to seven minute discussion currently offered.

Now as far as the selection of the Essentials are concerned I think one needs to look at whom the series is meant for. In my humbled opinion the series is NOT meant as a series that concerns the feelings and opinions of those of us who have been viewers of TCM for years or at least have been commenting on films on the TCM message boards or here at SSO. The series is meant for the new viewers of classic films that have ventured into the realm known as TCM on their cable TVs.

kingrat
Posts: 2207
Joined: August 20th, 2009, 2:46 pm

Re: Essential?

Postby kingrat » October 13th, 2014, 7:08 pm

Rey, I also like an extended discussion about the Essential in question. I don't know how long an "average" viewer is willing to listen, but if there's a lively exchange of ideas and interesting information about the movie in question

And Moira, we are on the same page about Stella Dallas. It's a famous weepie, and I can see pairing it, as a classic female weepie, with Field of Dreams (or Brian's Song) as a classic male weepie. By no means, however, do I think it's as good as Now, Voyager. The script is more of a hot mess than Stella. Stella wants to improve herself, then she's vulgar, or maybe pretends to be vulgar so her daughter can have a better life. She sleeps around, or maybe she pretends to, since we have a production code to follow. Any of these lines of development could work if they were followed through. The final scene is classic, and Stanwyck brings it off. However, it would be easy for me to list two dozen Stanwyck performances I like more.

User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8175
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Essential?

Postby moira finnie » October 14th, 2014, 11:59 am

Fx, your comments about Alec Baldwin reflect many of my own feelings. I do think that Baldwin had more in-depth interest and knowledge of classic film than many of the co-hosts, though his comparison of older films to modern ones or to remakes (such as Scarface, which he rambled on about during the recent Pre-Code Fridays) is irksome to me. The business atmosphere, technical demands and societal norms have changed so much in that time, the classic movies are a separate subject for me, though Baldwin's comments may help to make older films more interesting to people who are not enamored of classic flicks the way we are.

Kingrat, I would love to see your idea of a male and female weepie-fest on TCM take off as a Friday Night Spotlight feature in the future (with you as host, to boot!). What constitutes a male weepie for you? I tend to see it as a sentimental film about an individual man or a few men facing impossible odds and struggling to achieve a goal despite everything, including death. Other films can take on this theme, but the ones I am thinking of tend to dwell on the emotional underpinnings of male bonds more than those that focus on the big picture more.

Other male weepies for me might include All Quiet on the Western Front (1930), The Champ (1931), Captains Courageous (1937), The Dawn Patrol (1938), Wake Island (1942), Bataan (1943), Pride of the Marines (1945), Scott of the Antarctic (1948), Rebel Without a Cause (1955), The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit (1956), Chariots of Fire (1981), An Officer and a Gentleman (1982), The Natural (1984), Field of Dreams (1989), and the television movie, Brian's Song (1971). Jeez, after looking over that list, I realized how many dealt with sports or war. How sad. :shock:
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks

kingrat
Posts: 2207
Joined: August 20th, 2009, 2:46 pm

Re: Essential?

Postby kingrat » October 14th, 2014, 3:36 pm

Moira, you've listed some classics of the genre. A few more male weepies come to mind: the various editions of the Three Godfathers story. Bang the Drum Slowly is another of the sports variety. The big scene in Wings is a classic of the male weepie. Sports, war, and sometimes little children are the proper occasions when a man may shed a tear.

The Fortune Cookie is like the comic version of the sports weepie, where Jack Lemmon really isn't injured.

User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3924
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Essential?

Postby ChiO » October 14th, 2014, 4:57 pm

Sports, war, and sometimes little children are the proper occasions when a man may shed a tear.

Not this fella.

For me, REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE certainly and ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT (though I don't consider my tears in this instance to be gender-based).

But for that male bonding that leads to tears: DINER.

Male tears due to an inability to bond: ANNIE HALL - But we need the eggs has me choked up by just typing the words.

Male (at least this one) blubbering (and it has nothing to do with the children): HOMEWARD BOUND: THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY (sniff, sniff)

(Addition via edit) Male + parental bonding with male child: BICYCLE THIEVES.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

kingrat
Posts: 2207
Joined: August 20th, 2009, 2:46 pm

Re: Essential?

Postby kingrat » October 14th, 2014, 6:22 pm

Yes, but you're responding like a real person, not a stereotypical American male, which is what the genre of male weepies is all about. Of course, I'm glad you do respond as an individual. That's much more interesting.

One movie where even a boy can cry: Old Yeller.

RedRiver
Posts: 4209
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: Essential?

Postby RedRiver » October 15th, 2014, 12:53 pm

The 1984 Playoffs.

User avatar
movieman1957
Administrator
Posts: 5472
Joined: April 15th, 2007, 3:50 pm
Location: MD

Re: Essential?

Postby movieman1957 » October 15th, 2014, 1:43 pm

This year's playoffs.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."

User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3924
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Essential?

Postby ChiO » October 15th, 2014, 5:00 pm

Yes, you're both right. The Beast dies so that a lesser figure may prevail.

KING KONG.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles


Return to “The Essentials”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest