Gee Hollis, I'm surprised at your intent to see the Eiffel Tower. Have you ever seen Mount Rushmore, the Painted Desert, the Grand Canyon or the Pacific Ocean from the San Diego shore? (You'll never see a more beautiful place than San Diego and the gorgeous harbor.) Did you see the Grand Tetons, Black Hills, the mountain sculpture of Crazy Horse similar to Mount Rushmore, or the Great Salt Lake? On the other hand, have you seen the Liberty Bell, the Lincoln Memorial, Arlington National Cemetery or the battlefield at Gettysburg? With all the hardships our country has gone through in the past eight years, with layoffs, loss of homes, cars, etc., I would suspect the states that these amazing American landmarks are in would appreciate a touch of that tourist money.
I have never, and will never understand born and bred Americans who yearn to see Europe. I can understand the soldiers who were stationed there during, and after WWII during the occupation, and of course immigrants like my Dad who were born in Italy. (he never wanted to return though). The U.S. has so much to see. You can't drive 200 miles in any direction without seeing some sort of bill-board for some kind of attraction. I have nothing against a European trip if you've already seen what the U.S. has to offer. I was in my 40's and 50's before I got to see all the things I listed, and the funny thing is, all my life I longed to see just those things. I wanted to learn as much about my country as I could. My family told me enough stories about 'the old country' to assuage my curiosity about Italy, France, and Poland, but nobody in my family had ever journeyed outside the boundaries of Illinois.
I should probably apologize for being such a 'stick' about this, but it's a subject I've argued all my life. Thirty years ago one of the fellows in my office took a European trip with his wife (he and I had already had our disagreements), and when he returned, all he talked about was how dirty the cities are, the bad water, and the bland food, while I secretly clapped my hands and said 'good for him'. I'm not wishing the same on you, I just cannot conceive how the Alps wouldn't compare with the Grand Tetons, or the Eiffle Tower with the Sears building, and how could Big Ben be anywhere near as interesting as the Liberty Bell?
I'll shut up now, and sincerely hope you do have a good trip.
Anne
The Good News Thread
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Lzcutter
- Administrator
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Congratulations, Klondike on being a Grandfather, again!
And Hollis, congratulations to you as well. Sounds as if your luck has turned around!
Come west, young man!
And Hollis, congratulations to you as well. Sounds as if your luck has turned around!
Come west, young man!
Lynn in Lake Balboa
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
Hollis, I am happy for you and hope you'll enjoy yourself. And Klondike, congratulations on your grandchild. 
I'm sorry that I'm late in congratulating you, but I've been busy both on the days and the evenings studying, so I have really only had time to check my mail. I try, but these days I'm having a harder time getting involved with the message boards I am a member of, mostly because when I come home, the last thing I want to do is turn on a computer. I like you all, but it has taken me a long time to get involved, and oh well never mind. This is just egocentric.
Anne, I've always thought you should be curious about other cultures and try to learn new things. I thought knowledge was preferable to ignorance and prejudice. Possibly all that dirt your friend talked about has corrupted my mind somehow. But surely patriotism doesn't mean you should show disdain for all other cultures but your own? Why shouldn't you want to see both the Eiffel Tower and Mount Rushmore? Apart from the fact that you might accidentally learn something real about something other than your own sphere, what could you possibly have to lose?
Well, the good news for me is that my mother probably has found a new job.
I'm sorry that I'm late in congratulating you, but I've been busy both on the days and the evenings studying, so I have really only had time to check my mail. I try, but these days I'm having a harder time getting involved with the message boards I am a member of, mostly because when I come home, the last thing I want to do is turn on a computer. I like you all, but it has taken me a long time to get involved, and oh well never mind. This is just egocentric.
Anne, I've always thought you should be curious about other cultures and try to learn new things. I thought knowledge was preferable to ignorance and prejudice. Possibly all that dirt your friend talked about has corrupted my mind somehow. But surely patriotism doesn't mean you should show disdain for all other cultures but your own? Why shouldn't you want to see both the Eiffel Tower and Mount Rushmore? Apart from the fact that you might accidentally learn something real about something other than your own sphere, what could you possibly have to lose?
Well, the good news for me is that my mother probably has found a new job.
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charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
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feaito
Hollis, I know this is a dream come true for you, and I don't know where Anne's co-worker traveled,
Nancy
, but that's not the Paris, Zurich, Cologne, Brussels, Bruge, Antwerp that I saw. I saw terribly dirty streets in Chicago, and some really pretty ones, too. I guess if you try and find the negatives, you will. And if you want to see real beauty, it doesn't matter where you go - you'll find it. Don't let any one rain on your parade, dear friend!all he talked about was how dirty the cities are, the bad water, and the bland food
Nancy
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silentscreen
- Posts: 701
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Hedvig, good to hear from you! I'm so happy for your mother! I shall send an email to your home address soon.Synnove wrote:Hollis, I am happy for you and hope you'll enjoy yourself. And Klondike, congratulations on your grandchild.
I'm sorry that I'm late in congratulating you, but I've been busy both on the days and the evenings studying, so I have really only had time to check my mail. I try, but these days I'm having a harder time getting involved with the message boards I am a member of, mostly because when I come home, the last thing I want to do is turn on a computer. I like you all, but it has taken me a long time to get involved, and oh well never mind. This is just egocentric.
Anne, I've always thought you should be curious about other cultures and try to learn new things. I thought knowledge was preferable to ignorance and prejudice. Possibly all that dirt your friend talked about has corrupted my mind somehow. But surely patriotism doesn't mean you should show disdain for all other cultures but your own? Why shouldn't you want to see both the Eiffel Tower and Mount Rushmore? Apart from the fact that you might accidentally learn something real about something other than your own sphere, what could you possibly have to lose?
Well, the good news for me is that my mother probably has found a new
job.
Brenda
"Humor is nothing less than a sense of the fitness of things." Carole Lombard
Dear Anne,
Not to brag, but I've seen each and every one of the places you mentioned. The Liberty Bell? I grew up in Philly for crying out loud and New York is only 90 miles to the north. I've been there more times than I can count. Did you ride the world's fastest elevators in the WTC (pre 2001?) I did. My son and I went to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty (and went to the top, a 2 hr wait!) As a matter of fact, I've been fortunate enough to have visited, for varying lengths of time, every state in the Union. And that includes Alaska in the spring. San Diego pales by comparison, It falls well short of the Big Sur region of Northern California as well. I've also been fortunate enough to have set foot on every continent except Europe which is why I want to go so badly. What do you think our form of government is based upon, or where our common law statutes come from? England and France, that's where. I can guarantee you that between two cross country tours by car with my parents and my 7 years in the Navy, I've been to more places and seen more things (good and bad) than you could hope to dream of. So don't pass judgment on me without knowing all the facts. But that does seem to be your style, doesn't it?
Hollis
P.S. I don't think that if you lived to be 500 you could see "everything" the USA has to offer, Maybe what you see on all those far too numerous billboards you mentioned, but certainly not all of it, there's simply too much to see. I'd bet that you haven't seen all that Chicago has to offer. Or maybe you don't want to. And by the way, the Eiffel Tower opened officially on my birthday in 1889 (March 31st) and maybe that's part of my desire. And what veteran doesn't want to see Normandy, where his father fought and was wounded?
Not to brag, but I've seen each and every one of the places you mentioned. The Liberty Bell? I grew up in Philly for crying out loud and New York is only 90 miles to the north. I've been there more times than I can count. Did you ride the world's fastest elevators in the WTC (pre 2001?) I did. My son and I went to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty (and went to the top, a 2 hr wait!) As a matter of fact, I've been fortunate enough to have visited, for varying lengths of time, every state in the Union. And that includes Alaska in the spring. San Diego pales by comparison, It falls well short of the Big Sur region of Northern California as well. I've also been fortunate enough to have set foot on every continent except Europe which is why I want to go so badly. What do you think our form of government is based upon, or where our common law statutes come from? England and France, that's where. I can guarantee you that between two cross country tours by car with my parents and my 7 years in the Navy, I've been to more places and seen more things (good and bad) than you could hope to dream of. So don't pass judgment on me without knowing all the facts. But that does seem to be your style, doesn't it?
Hollis
P.S. I don't think that if you lived to be 500 you could see "everything" the USA has to offer, Maybe what you see on all those far too numerous billboards you mentioned, but certainly not all of it, there's simply too much to see. I'd bet that you haven't seen all that Chicago has to offer. Or maybe you don't want to. And by the way, the Eiffel Tower opened officially on my birthday in 1889 (March 31st) and maybe that's part of my desire. And what veteran doesn't want to see Normandy, where his father fought and was wounded?
Last edited by Hollis on February 20th, 2009, 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Synnove:
I am very curious about other cultures, I prefer however, to learn about my own first, and my own country.
Knitwit:
If you recall, I said it was 30 years ago - things may have changed by now, and if so I would apologize.
Hollis:
From the tone of most of your posts, I got the impression you had never been anywhere or done anything due to your injuries, and I could not understand why you would not want to see the country you had fought for, since you were a veteran. Thus the reaction of my 'style'. I have been to 42 states also for various amounts of time; some overnight and some for weeks. I never got to N.Y. because as I've said, it just seems like a larger Chicago (which I have also stated that I cannot stand because it is dirty, and scary). Once I moved to the suburbs, I never looked back. I don't know what I saw in San Diego, because I don't know the descriptions, but we had lunch at some restaurant that overlooked the ships moving around and farther over were the private sailboats with all the sparkle of brass and silver twinkling in the sun and to me it was beautiful, more so than the beach of Big Sur - waves banging against the rocks and shore I've seen here at the beaches of Lake Michigan. Some things just don't impress me like they do other people. I've seen trees, so I wasn't that ga-ga at Yellowstone Nat'l Park, but the colors and rock formations of the desert outside of Vegas, that's another story. I have a touch of claustrophobia so a fast elevator would not turn me on. What I'm saying is I choose the sights I want to see and the things I want to experience. I've seen all of this stuff in the last 25 years when I was old enough to appreciate it, and I'm glad you also have seen it. I said I would, and I do apologize for 'jumping the gun', I've always believed in the see America first rule and most of the people I know have never seen so much as the Grand Canyon, yet they rave about the changing of the guard in England.
So, again, I hope you seriously have a wonderful trip and take lots of pictures so you can put them on here and we can all share.
Anne
I am very curious about other cultures, I prefer however, to learn about my own first, and my own country.
Knitwit:
If you recall, I said it was 30 years ago - things may have changed by now, and if so I would apologize.
Hollis:
From the tone of most of your posts, I got the impression you had never been anywhere or done anything due to your injuries, and I could not understand why you would not want to see the country you had fought for, since you were a veteran. Thus the reaction of my 'style'. I have been to 42 states also for various amounts of time; some overnight and some for weeks. I never got to N.Y. because as I've said, it just seems like a larger Chicago (which I have also stated that I cannot stand because it is dirty, and scary). Once I moved to the suburbs, I never looked back. I don't know what I saw in San Diego, because I don't know the descriptions, but we had lunch at some restaurant that overlooked the ships moving around and farther over were the private sailboats with all the sparkle of brass and silver twinkling in the sun and to me it was beautiful, more so than the beach of Big Sur - waves banging against the rocks and shore I've seen here at the beaches of Lake Michigan. Some things just don't impress me like they do other people. I've seen trees, so I wasn't that ga-ga at Yellowstone Nat'l Park, but the colors and rock formations of the desert outside of Vegas, that's another story. I have a touch of claustrophobia so a fast elevator would not turn me on. What I'm saying is I choose the sights I want to see and the things I want to experience. I've seen all of this stuff in the last 25 years when I was old enough to appreciate it, and I'm glad you also have seen it. I said I would, and I do apologize for 'jumping the gun', I've always believed in the see America first rule and most of the people I know have never seen so much as the Grand Canyon, yet they rave about the changing of the guard in England.
So, again, I hope you seriously have a wonderful trip and take lots of pictures so you can put them on here and we can all share.
Anne
Anne
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Brenda and Alison, thank you for your kindness! We thought she had a job in the bag last summer, but she didn't have a contract then, and things were changing fast. Now more people have lost their jobs, so the competition is tough. We are optimistic now though. Anne, a few things have changed. I could exhaust my hand writing about what happened in 1989 alone. There's also the formation of the European Union, which has been a great benefit to the economy of countries like Ireland. But even 30 years ago, the historical monuments were there, the ones that hadn't been devastated by the recent war. It's like Knitwit45 says, you can choose what to focus on. I was in Ann Arbor, Michigan last summer. I could either talk about the amazing bookstores and magnificent parks, or the bad roads. Which is more important and interesting?
I guess the reason why I'm puzzled by your attitude has to do with the very country you are from, the United States of America. The fact that it's rich with so many different cultures is the main reason why I admire it. How can you learn about the history of the US without learning about the different histories of the African Americans, the Italians, the Irish, the English, the French or the Germans who made it?
Heck, Sweden would seem pretty homogeneous at first glance, but when reading Swedish history I would have to be pretty thickheaded not to learn something about Germany, England (thanks for the parliamentary system!), Finland, Russia... I could go on. You can't put different cultures in separate boxes with lids on, that would be ignoring history. We have always interacted.
Hollis, I must say I'm impressed by your travels. I hope you will enjoy Europe too.
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klondike
Hollis & Anne:
Enough with the dirt-bombing already!
You've both stated your positions, and made your individual points exhaustively well . . if either of you want to continue with your one-up-manship, one of you will need to start an America v. Europe Tourism thread somewhere appropriate, but further posts here by either of you need to be back in the correct tone of this thread: Good News!
And by the way, just for the record, according to the memoirs of Benjamin Franklin & Thomas Payne (current to the 1770's), the closest, most inspirational model referenced for their prototype of the new American government were the governing bodies of the Iroquois Confederacy.
But . . enough with ancient history & dueling ideologies; let's get back to some Good News!
Enough with the dirt-bombing already!
You've both stated your positions, and made your individual points exhaustively well . . if either of you want to continue with your one-up-manship, one of you will need to start an America v. Europe Tourism thread somewhere appropriate, but further posts here by either of you need to be back in the correct tone of this thread: Good News!
And by the way, just for the record, according to the memoirs of Benjamin Franklin & Thomas Payne (current to the 1770's), the closest, most inspirational model referenced for their prototype of the new American government were the governing bodies of the Iroquois Confederacy.
But . . enough with ancient history & dueling ideologies; let's get back to some Good News!
Anne,
Didn't you see the Upper and Lower waterfalls at Yellowstone? Or Old Faithful? The "Hot Spots" and the Badlands are virtually identical to the Grand Canyon but they're much older and (I believe) cover more area. And Devils Tower Is right across the state line in Montana. How many cores of extinct volcanoes are there? Devils Tower is the first National Monument, declared so by Teddy Roosevelt in 1906!
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The last time I was there I was 10 years old and after almost 50 years I can still vividly recall it. And the bears and the bighorn sheep and antelopes that are indigenous to the area were fascinating to a boy born and raised in a big city like Philly. I was also there at 8 years of age so I'm certain there's a certain crossover effect to my memory.
And speaking of Nevada, didn't you go to Lake Tahoe? almost 1,000 feet deep and 99% pure! You can drink right from the lake with no worries. and it's the caldera of an ancient volcano too. No trip out West is complete without a trip to Hoover Dam, it's awe inspiring.
.
Didn't you see the Upper and Lower waterfalls at Yellowstone? Or Old Faithful? The "Hot Spots" and the Badlands are virtually identical to the Grand Canyon but they're much older and (I believe) cover more area. And Devils Tower Is right across the state line in Montana. How many cores of extinct volcanoes are there? Devils Tower is the first National Monument, declared so by Teddy Roosevelt in 1906!
****************************************************
The last time I was there I was 10 years old and after almost 50 years I can still vividly recall it. And the bears and the bighorn sheep and antelopes that are indigenous to the area were fascinating to a boy born and raised in a big city like Philly. I was also there at 8 years of age so I'm certain there's a certain crossover effect to my memory.
And speaking of Nevada, didn't you go to Lake Tahoe? almost 1,000 feet deep and 99% pure! You can drink right from the lake with no worries. and it's the caldera of an ancient volcano too. No trip out West is complete without a trip to Hoover Dam, it's awe inspiring.
.
Last edited by Hollis on February 20th, 2009, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Count me in as someone who'll help if you want me too. We're a tiny country in comparison but our motorways are chocabloc most of the time. Driving in America is easy in comparison. Marta (wherever you are) will be able to tell you, she is a Tennessee native but married to a Brit. It does depend on how confident you are driving on the left and driving abroad in general.
There are some beautiful places here, you must take time out to see the Lake District if you can. It's about 90 minutes form here and is so beautiful.
I love the travelling I've done in the UK, Europe and America. I'd have to live until I was 200 to see everything I want to see. Seeing this interesting world of ours is one of life's pleasures.
There are some beautiful places here, you must take time out to see the Lake District if you can. It's about 90 minutes form here and is so beautiful.
I love the travelling I've done in the UK, Europe and America. I'd have to live until I was 200 to see everything I want to see. Seeing this interesting world of ours is one of life's pleasures.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
Hollis, what happened to Oscar? This avatar is cute, but Oscar...ooo la la!
since this is the good news thread, here's some good news:
My company survived another week! No telling what next week will bring, and I keep hearing a swirling, watery rumbling noise, but so far, we've got the drain plugged.
AND, it's almost 50 degrees and sunny. Snow predicted for tomorrow, but I'm enjoying this almost balmy day!
since this is the good news thread, here's some good news:
My company survived another week! No telling what next week will bring, and I keep hearing a swirling, watery rumbling noise, but so far, we've got the drain plugged.
AND, it's almost 50 degrees and sunny. Snow predicted for tomorrow, but I'm enjoying this almost balmy day!