At Random

[charliechaplinfan]

The boys reaction in the restuarant was just the same as the girl who came to my till, I thought she would be belligerant but she was really pleasant. I don't think she had a notion that someone might find her attire offensive.

I agree with so much of what you say, Jackfavell. My two like having their friends in for tea and as I'm around most of the week, they can be really well behaved here but when their parents turn up to collect them they change. I had one having a screaming fit in my hall, they are young but when my parents called for me, I knew I had to get ready to go.

Brenda, Anna sounds a handful enough to keep everyone else on their toes.

[mrsl]

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Brenda:

I'll admit I've been a faithful viewer of Jon & Kate since their beginning, and I'm going to miss them terribly. But if you ever watched the show, think about those six babies and how each of them were unique to each other. Kate was smart enough to know they would learn at their own pace and never rushed any of them. The funny thing was she had a heck of a time potty training the boys, and that was easy for me, the girls drove me nuts.

As for behavior and words, neither of my daughters or daughter-in-law believed in the NO SPANK rule. They just confined it to the house. It showed however, when the family went out to dinner, a look or reminder of what would happen at home generally quieted a misbehaving kid. All the girls just felt that they made it all right even though they were spanked, so they continued the tradition. I mention this because I just found out recently what they did. I thought they did it with talking, and they laughed at me.
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[JackFavell]

I tell the girls (my own included) that if they want to come over again, they have to be well behaved when it's time to go. I can't take credit for this method, since I stole it from another mom..... it works quite well, with reminders when they are getting geared up to leave.

[charliechaplinfan]

Yes, I've employed that method, my daughter desperately wants a sleepover, despite not sleeping that well at home but the friend she wants the sleepover with was the one who throw a tantrum when her parents came. I told my daughter that no sleepover would be taking place until both girls left each others houses nice and politely and with no fuss.

I can't get over one little girl in my daughter's class who is so manipulative, they're only just 7. Girl's relationships with each other seem a little fraught even at a young age. That's girls, I wonder if boys are any easier, I do hope so.

[silentscreen]

Anne,

I have a strong suspicion that you were a very good mother. Actually while I was there, Anna was the least fussy baby. She could keep herself content for longer periods of time whereas Emma is more emotional and likes attention. I don't begin to fathom how Jon and Kate did it with six babies! I think my daughter-in-law is more than fine with Emma taking a bit longer, she's only afraid that Anna will lead her into trouble. Everyone can't wait for babies to learn to do these things, and then when they do we complain!

[srowley75]

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As for behavior and words, neither of my daughters or daughter-in-law believed in the NO SPANK rule. They just confined it to the house. It showed however, when the family went out to dinner, a look or reminder of what would happen at home generally quieted a misbehaving kid. All the girls just felt that they made it all right even though they were spanked, so they continued the tradition. I mention this because I just found out recently what they did. I thought they did it with talking, and they laughed at me.[/color]
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I'm not criticizing your choice of discipline, but no form of discipline - and I list spanking at the top of the list - should be administered purely in anger.

When I was only 3 or 4, my father was bringing me home from the day care center where I was left for most of the day. One of the elderly teachers didn't have a car, and since her house was on the way he would often give her a ride home. Evidently I had been naughty that day - I really don't remember at all - and she must've told him about something I did or didn't do. After he dropped her off at her house, through the rest of the ride home, I never had any clue that anything was wrong. However, when we arrived home, he simply took me to my bedroom and starting beating me - whether he used a paddle or belt I don't remember, though other times I do remember his using one or the other. It scared the life out of me and to this day it's a traumatic experience I remember vividly. One minute he seemed very cool and the next minute I was getting beaten. I ran out of my bedroom when he was finished and sat on the sofa heaving with sobs while he yelled at me to shut up or else I was going to get some more of the same. I still have no idea what I ever did to deserve what I got and I wonder if it wasn't triggered in part by his own bad mood, because later he'd behave the same way when I was older, only I had more presence of mind to know why he was so upset though he still never waited to administer discipline when he'd calmed down and could rationally explain to me why I was being punished (and for that matter, neither did my mother - she would just yell and then grab me and slap me or paddle me). But I believe this event (as well as several others) contributed to the rift between my father and myself. Throughout my teen years I almost never even spoke to him. I know we were never close and aren't to this day. But for my mother's hereditary ability to manipulate through guilt, I probably wouldn't be close to her either. The only good that might've come of it was that my sister wasn't raised the same way.

[ken123]

As a parent I was a non corporal punishment dad.

[charliechaplinfan]

I was scared of my father, because he would smack, hard, it made me be a very good girl but I'm not alone in my age group. I don't want my children to be scared of either of us but I do want them to realise when they have gone too far. It's finding the consequence for their actions that will make them stop misbehaving. My daughter knows if she is naughty she will be denied her favorite toy for a period of time, once when she really tested the boundaries we binned a toy, not a favorite or an expensive one but it showed her what would happen, now the threat of it seems to work. Our son doesn't like it if we don't talk to him for a while. I try to get into the habit of praising them, it easy to remonstrate and not as easy to remember to praise, it takes more effort but is more rewarding.

[JackFavell]

Sorry in advance for the length -

CCFan-

I can so relate to your story of the manipulative girl. What a shock it is to see it so early on!

My daughter Alice had a girl in her first grade class who was very manipulative - within two weeks of the first day of school, this little girl had made my daughter's life miserable. The girl co-opted my daughter, told Alice that she couldn't play with her best friend Emma, or anyone else for that matter. Only her. Alice has known Emma since they were nine months old. Alice was very upset, and was close to just caving in and letting this little girl run her life. It was very traumatic for her (not to mention me, who never thought we would be dealing with this so soon).

We talked it over and Alice and I decided that she needed to stand up to the little girl (first initial P). I asked Alice to tell P that she would play with her IF she would play with others too, or take turns playing every other day, which was only fair. We role played until Alice felt comfortable with what she wanted to say. I also explained to Alice that if P really wanted to be friends, she would make an effort to do it that way. I explained to Alice that P needed her more than she needed P. If P said no, then she just wasn't a good friend anyway and Alice would be better off without her. We talked about all the possible ways P might react and figured out what to do in each case.

Alice went to school sure of what she had to say, but still a little nervous. She came home so proud of herself - all went fine, and P actually capitulated to Alice's requests because she didn't have any other friends. After about a week, she found another little girl to boss around and left my daughter alone. I asked Alice a little while later whether she was having any problems with P and she said, " It's OK mom, I know how to handle her. " I am glad it worked out this way, because this little girl turned into a holy terror.

About corporal punishment - My father and mother didn't do much of it but I deserved it when I got a spanking or hit.

I worry about withholding talk, only because my father went overboard with this exact punishment. I am positive you are a person who uses this tactic in a reasonable way. However, my father was the kind to stop talking to us when he was mad (he later said that he didn't want to say words that would hurt in anger). Sometimes it was two weeks before he would tell us what it was, or why he was mad. It was awful, we knew he was mad, but not why. It turned into a kind of torture...waiting to see when the shoe would drop and he would call you into the living room to "chat" (which was awful in itself).

Once a few years ago, I did it back to him when I had gotten angry about something. I could only go three days without telling him.... he asked every day if I was ready to talk about it. When I told him what was wrong, and why I had not wanted to talk to him, he said, "I didn't like that at all." I told him quietly that that is how we felt growing up. He was very quiet and said again, "I didn't like that at all." I found out recently that his mother would fly into rages and beat him and his sister, and this is why he waited until the anger was gone to talk to us.

[mrsl]

Being the Mom and home all day with 3 or 4 kids is different from the Dad who is there for dinner, then the kids disappear to bed. Even weekends Dad is busy with the yard, or other chores while Mom keeps the kids out of his way. Also, spanking is entirely different from beating. When a child is finally out of diapers and into regular underwear, a spank on the fatty part of his butt: No. 1, doesn't hurt that much, No. 2, let's him know who's boss, No. 3, lets him know he did something wrong and, tho not unforgivable, is unforgettable. Srowley, you were beaten, I would in fact, did leave my first husband when he turned that anger on our oldest son. I could take it, but a child shouldn't have to. The silent treatment literally makes a child feel totally alone and bereft. That too is more harmful to a childs libido than a spank on his butt.
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[charliechaplinfan]

Alice's problem's sound like Elizabeth's with her friend. I had the measure of this little girl from the offset after I'd seen her physically hurting another girl (when they were 5) All last year she made her life miserable and we kept prepping her about what to say, then finally she did it and stood up to her, she felt empowered. At the start of this year my son joined school, he's just turned 4 and on his second day this girl pushed him over in the yard (from behind of course) she bust his nose and lips open. The school told me it was an accident and it was only later that night that Elizabeth told me exactly what had happened and that another friend had seen it too, my little boy had got pushed over out of spite and the two girls who saw didn't say to the teachers because the spiteful one had told them that they wouldn't be believed and they'd be the ones who got in trouble. It took from lunchtime until suppertime for her to come clean, she was so bothered about getting in trouble. Both her and her friend told identical stories, down to showing us how he had been pushed over. I rang the school the next morning wanting to talk to their teacher, when I got there the headmistress saw me, took me very seriously, I filled in some of the blanks on this girl, (the headmistress had only just started there too). Anyway she got hauled into the headmistresses office and got chastised and her mother was sent for. Her mother admitted to the other friends Mum that the little girl is a compulsive liar but wouldn't admit to any wrongdoing in front of the headmistress and thought it was wrong the headmistress had her little girl in the office without her mother there. The mother does not acknowledge me now, but am I bothered?

I type this and I'm thinking, they're only just 7, this little girl has been manipulating since they started age 4. She now keeps her distance from Elizabeth and Elizabeth knows that it is right to tell the truth and she will never get in trouble for for doing so.

When I speak of not talking to Joseph, it's only a temporary thing. He's very much a cuddler and very tactile. He just loves to make conversation,I tell him he's naughty and explain why it's wrong and then act cross and don't 'play' he gets the message. I might have to change tactics when he gets older but it works fine for now.

[JackFavell]

When I speak of not talking to Joseph, it's only a temporary thing. He's very much a cuddler and very tactile. He just loves to make conversation,I tell him he's naughty and explain why it's wrong and then act cross and don't 'play' he gets the message. I might have to change tactics when he gets older but it works fine for now.

That's what I figured. I could not believe that you would be as crazy as my dad!

As for the schoolyard behavior - that is terrible! Not only did she push him down so hard he bled, but she blackmailed the kids who saw her do it! That must have been such a heavy burden for those poor kids. I hope she got in trouble, but somehow I doubt it. You were right to ask all the kids what happened. The sad thing is, most parents these days will say, "My daughter couldn't possibly have done that..." and then proceed to threaten the school for libeling their "poor baby".



It was similar with my daughter's situation with P. After the last incident, she came to Alice's birthday party (because my daughter is a good and kindly kid, she invited her even after the other problem), and she was making mean faces when Alice opened the other guests' presents. I went up to her and said very gently, "we are happy for our friends when they get presents from other people too". I even patted her on the back when I said it. She told Alice that I was mean. She said that if Alice told me that she said that, something bad would happen. My daughter held it in until night time and then told me. I told her that she was not allowed to see this little girl anymore. I always tell my daughter that if ANYONE tells you not to tell on them or they will hurt you or your family, you go and tell on them immediately. No ifs, ands, or buts.

[charliechaplinfan]

She did get in trouble but the biggest shock to her was that someone had her number. I'd never mention the incidents I'd seen at Little Church to school not wanting to get into something that didn't involve me. So now the headmistress and teachers know what they are dealing with after I'd told them what I've seen in the past and all the little incidents of the previous year. Along with being manipulative she's quite clever and has never really been caught out before.

As for parties, I'd already sent the invitations out for my daughter's birthday when this incident happened, one invitation going to the same little girl. I would have withdrawn that invitation but we were having a party for three of the girls in the class and the other mothers didn't think it was right to withdraw this girl's invitation. So the little girl came, the parents never rang me to say she was coming (I was collecting numbers) so if the parents can't be polite, there's no hope for the girl.

This all happened a couple of months ago but it's put a space between Elizabeth and this girl, they still speak but she's not manipulating my little girl anymore.

Joe bounced back from it all but it did upset him for a few days. Just what I needed when my little angel had just started school.

P sounds like an little horror. I bet we all knew one when we were growing up but I didn't come across one until I was in high school.

[JackFavell]

Poor little Joe! He'll be OK. They forget the bad stuff easier than we do.

Don't get me started on RSVP - it means nothing nowadays. Out of 9 kids invited to Alice's party this year, only 4 responded to the RSVP.

[charliechaplinfan]

It really gets me annoyed. I reply to everything. The worst offenders are the ones you see every morning when you drop your kids at school yet still haven't replied. I ended up having to ask them, most looked surprised and that I was bothering to chase them up because they were all coming, they just didn't think a reply was necessary.

Joe, nothing gets past him. He knows some of the things that had been said about this girl. He says it plainly. 'You're a naughty girl and I'm not going to play with you' he sees things as very black and white whereas Elizabeth can't make her mind up and thinks everyone is a really good person underneath.