"THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Chit-chat, current events
User avatar
CineMaven
Posts: 3815
Joined: September 24th, 2007, 9:54 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

"THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by CineMaven »

Image Image Image

I just recently watched “A FAREWELL TO ARMS” ( 1932 ) ( Good Morning Helen! ) With all my heart, I wished for a happy ending for those lovers that I knew would never come. The same thing happened when I watched Bette Davis in one of her good girl roles: “A STOLEN LIFE.” Gosh that nice girl she played deserved a happy ending. I was rooting for her. Hard.

Yet as a woman, I do love a good cry; cathartic...releasing. When I run smack dab into a sad ending - I like them. Do I really want a happy ending? After all, a movie is where we can go to escape. I’m trying to write a short film and in crafting the story, I started to wonder & ponder, what resonates with me more: the SAD ENDING or the HAPPY ENDING? We all want a GOOD Ending; one that springs forth organically from a well - written plot. Nothing tacked on. ( “DALLAS” lost me forever with their Bobby Ewing’s-in-the-shower-and-last-Season-was-just-a-dream! FTW! )

Happy endings feel good. Sad endings make me think.

A sad ending hurts so good. You know the feeling. I wonder if sad endings help me remember a film even more. Our heroine/hero dies...lovers, kept apart. Is it the ache and longing that feels good and gets my attention? We may change, but movies are set in stone. The ballerina always jumps off Waterloo Bridge. Judith Traherne will always die alone. Three innocent men will always be hanged by that mob.

But walking off into the sunset makes my heart soar. The music swells...there’s hope in the universe. Things work out well for everyone, laughing and skipping away. That kiss between Dana Andrews and Teresa Wright at Homer's wedding...Mary Astor waves happily from her villa welcoming Dodsworth...“Smithy” remembering at the gate in “Random Harvest.” And how can I help not bursting for joy when Rock & Doris clinch at the end of their films?

I get a bit emotionally confused with, what I call, the sad happy sad ending. With this type of ending I don’t know WHAT the heck to feel. There’s some sort of triumph of nobility of duty...of being more responsible to the world at large knowing you don’t amount to a hill of beans. Gaining your dignity as you walk away from love. Having to say goodbye, when you’re surrounded by people. Going back to who loves you, when you love someone else. Rick making Ilsa get on that plane with Victor Laszlo. ACK!!! It’s not nice and neat.

Western, drama, musical, Giallo, film noir, comedy. The genre doesn’t matter. In general, what type of movie ending resonates with you more? What stays with you long after “THE END” fades up onto the screen and you go back to real life? Why does what resonates, resonate with you? What movies?

A lot can happen to a person in three years when this topic was first broached here. Weigh in on this if you have the time. But please, just don’t say... “it depends.”
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
MikeBSG
Posts: 1777
Joined: April 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by MikeBSG »

This is a big, tough question, one worth a lot of thought.

First of all, I've been burned on this one. I've written stories in which things did not end happily for people, and then I really got blasted for it in critique sessions and after.

Still, I think some of the most memorable, most powerful endings are "downers." Think of "The Third Man," "The Searchers," "The Asphalt Jungle" and "Sunset Boulevard." (Of course, "Sunset Boulevard" cheats by starting at the end, so everybody knows that William Holden will be dead by the end of the film.)

On the other hand, I just watched "First Love" with Deanna Durbin. That had a happy ending, but one that happened in the blink of an eye and then the end title "And they lived happily ever after" underlined the "fairy tale" nature of the film. No, it's not one of the "greatest movie endings" but it was skillfully done and what the film needed. (Who would have wanted to see Durbin's character grow up to be an old maid teaching music somewhere?)

Then there is the "what happens next?" ending. "City Lights" and "Some Like It Hot" spring to mind here.

So I'd have to say that unhappy endings tend to be powerful because they "defy" the norm. (People always say "old time Hollywood movies always gave people a happy ending, but the four films I mentioned earlier were all pre-"Bonnie & Clyde" and "The Graduate.") Next come the "what happens next?" endings because they make us think about the movie beyond the immediate experience of watching it. Then come the happy endings, which are memorable (say "North by Northwest") when they play with the conventions a bit.
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by JackFavell »

That's so interesting! I loved what both of you have to say about Happy Endings vs. Sad Endings. I think a sad ending resonates more, and stays with you longer, generally speaking. I'm thinking of my fifteen year old self who watched the entire series Upstairs Downstairs only to find that it was James' story, and did not turn out well. I still get choked up thinking about it. I know I know, not a movie! But still moving to me _______ years later.

The ambiguous ending gets a big vote from me, too, Mike. How about The 400 Blows for instance?

I just watched My Name is Julia Ross yesterday, and I was stunned at the ending... Here's a woman who has been locked into a fake marriage, held against her will, and she's ready to do it all over again at the end of the film? HUH???? That's the total creepy ending that also can stick with one for a long time, though I think it was meant originally as a happy ending....but it's so perverse!
Mr. Arkadin
Posts: 2645
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

But please, just don’t say... “it depends.”
I hate to be one of those people, but my favorite endings are not happy or sad--they are simply the right conclusion to a story--even if it is expected or unexpected. In Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962), the downbeat ending is not only expected, but anticipated (it's right there in the title!). If Nelson hadn't given that to us, we would feel cheated. On the other hand, a film like Claire's Knee (1970) has what could be construed as a happy ending, but the threads do not come together as we expect and we are given much to think about and consider. The bottom line for me is how do I see this film--as an complete work, or as a disjointed set of pictures that have "good bits" here and there? I can enjoy both of them, but as most of us know, there are movies that simply flow from beginning to end that satisfy us and they come in many different forms and ways of resolving conflict. The key is not the outcome, but how it works in the context of everything we have seen in the hour and twenty minutes beforehand.
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by RedRiver »

More than anything, this topic makes clear that all kinds of endings are effective. Just as different types of stories call for them. Don't worry. This is not a cop-out. I'm "behavin' for The Maven!" I'm merely saying both variations have their place and their time. Both can be satisfying.

But the question was "Which Do You Prefer?" I'm going to go with happy. If I can qualify that, I'll say "at peace". The character not getting everything she wants, but leaving us with hope. It's going to take a lot of work. But life just might turn out allright. The dark conclusions of CITIZEN KANE, DOUBLE INDEMNITY, even MALTESE FALCON are dramatic and appropriate. The ending THE LOST WEEKEND should have had, but doesn't, would have been tragic and harsh.

Nonetheless, I enjoy a slightly lighter, more frivolous tone. BALL OF FIRE winds up exactly as it should. THE APARTMENT would be a different movie if C. C. Baxter didn't shut up and deal. The very mention of CITY LIGHTS provokes tears. Not sadness. Hope and relief. It's the most poetic and emotional scene in cinema. And it's happy!
User avatar
rohanaka
Posts: 255
Joined: April 30th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by rohanaka »

HELLOOO Miss Maven.. I will have to be a rule breaker.. ha. (but I see I am not alone!) :) but for me it really does depend.. on a lot of things. Mostly the reason for "happiness" or "sadness" in a story. And of course you have to rule out certain things like, for instance, is it a comedy?? (because HEY.. I would get ticked off if I were watching say.. It Happened One Night and the "walls of Jericho" did not finally get permission to fall at the end... ha.)

But dealing just with a straight "dramatic" tale.. set in whatever genre, whatever time period.. I think it would just depend on who was "happy" or "sad" at the end of things.. and why.

Now if you ask me which sort of story I prefer to watch (happy, sad, or some combination thereof) OH me.. now that would be even harder for me to explain.. ha.. because I likely would be even LESS able to answer that question than the one you have here.. ha.. Because to be honest.. THAT just depends too.. ha.. on what sort of mood am in at the time. :D

But maybe for me.. to try and answer your question, the more important thing that really is a "must" for me to truly enjoy a story is that I like a good resolution. I like things to end however they should (for better or worse) for the main characters, or for the plot.. or both. (or at least how I THINK they should anyway.. because never let it be said that I do not take my movies and movie characters personally, ha

I want to be left feeling like I got the whole story, and not be dissatisfied with whether or not they got things worked out.. or got what they deserved.. or will be able to face another day after climbing insurmountable odds, etc, etc. However things SHOULD end (in my mind, anyway.. ha) that is how I want them to end... even if it is sad. Or unpleasant.. or even if it absolutely brings me to my knees laughing. I just want everything to play out.. and not just spin its wheels.

I can take it if a movie makes me laugh.. makes me cry.. makes me mad.. makes me feel creeped out.. or even gives me a combination somehow of all of that mixed together.. ha. But just don't leave me hanging!! :D

And yet, I don't mean to imply that I need all the details "wrapped up in a bow". I just mean that I want to be left with a feeling that the story is finally at an end, and the tale has been told (happy or sad.. for better or worse). Completely.

One of the best examples for this I can think of is the film The Searchers. (And if you are one of the few people on this site who may have not yet seen this film, stop reading now as I must give you a huge spoiler alert) Debbie is home.. being welcomed by open arms and everyone is celebrating, etc, etc, etc.. and yet as they all go inside, one by one.. just before the door closes.. there stands Ethan.. The guy who just spent YEARS roaming around, his heart filled with hatred and determination. There he is left standing.. all by himself, watching as everyone else moves on. What is his life's purpose now? He could not go through with the plans he had for Debbie (thankfully). And the man he'd been hunting and had vowed to gain vengeance on is dead now... He's lost his brother (and the woman we come to suspect that he loved so long ago as well) Apart from Marty (with whom he only has a tentative relationship with at best and who will be starting his new life with Laurie and moving on) and apart from Debby (who really doesn't need him right now as much as she needs the Jorgensons) all of his kin are gone.

Ethan is pretty much a man alone, and what in the WORLD does he have now a the end of it all? And as the door in front of him slowly closes.. we are left to wonder whether or not if in some ways.. maybe NOW his "search" is only just beginning.

And you might say.... WAIT a minute "O Girl Who Said You Like a Good Resolution for Your Characters" you JUST said you want a good resolution to the story. And you would be right. ha.. But to ME.. this IS a good resolution for him (so that is what I mean by saying the ending does not necessarily have to be all tied up in a neat little bow) He has come full circle. He started the film with the door opening up to reveal he is coming back home after being away for a long, long time. And now.. that is where he has ended up again. At "home" Only this time.. as the door slowly closes (with him looking on) we get the idea that maybe his home is somewhere else now, and he will have to be moving on. Again, I say.. Maybe now his REAL "search" is just beginning. It is a "happy ending" kinda moment in many ways (Debbie has been rescued.. everyone is celebrating, yaddah yaddah, yaddah") and yet, THAT is not the "ending" that you FEEL because there is a measure of sadness as you see poor Ethan just standing there.. watching that door slowly go shut. UGH!! Gets me every time.. It is a very emotional moment.

And maybe THAT sort of tale is what (for me) will "resonate" (to use your word)... a story that stirs my emotion, whether one direction or another. I want to feel whatever it is I should. Anyway.. I likely am not explaining it all the way I wish I could.. ha.. but I guess I am saying, it can't always be "cut and dried" for "happy and sad". Maybe that was what you meant by "sad happy sad" ha.. But really to me it still just depends on HOW the story plays out. (OH good grief, I am no help at all, ha)

I guess what I am saying is, that I WANT to cry when I am supposed to.. I want to be angry.. if something should make me mad. And I want to bust a gut laughing it up if that is the best way to wrap up the story. But the point is.. after I watch a story, I don't want to feel "detached" from the characters by the end. I want to CARE about how they end up... rather than to just be left wondering WHAT in the world was THAT all about.

OH, for goodness sake (SILLY me) I am just now coming back in to edit my post because DUH!!!!!!!!!!! Miss Maven I see now that you DID "mean that" when you said "sad happy sad" because I SEE now that the very iconic closing scene I just described is actually one of the very pictures you included in your photo collection at the beginning of your post.. HA!!!!! (silly me) Why go through all that blabbage when a PICTURE will do just as well. (duh) ha.

Just disregard everything I said.. ha.. because now that I just spent all that time blabbing away.. I clearly haven't added anything new.. ha. (Silly me, indeed) OH well.. what was it that Miss Emily Latella used to say on Saturday Night Live.. ha.. "Never mind" :lol:
The Ingenue
Posts: 193
Joined: May 9th, 2008, 12:54 am
Contact:

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by The Ingenue »

Oh, but I like this:
[u]rohanaka[/u] wrote:But the point is.. after I watch a story, I don't want to feel "detached" from the characters by the end. I want to CARE about how they end up... rather than to just be left wondering WHAT in the world was THAT all about.
I like it a lot. And it put words to something I was trying myself to figure out. I'm glad you wrote it.
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by JackFavell »

I LOVED what you wrote Ro! It really puts it all in perspective, especially using The Searchers as an example and going into detail about it, because in some ways, that is the most well known film with an ambiguous, sort of "in the air" ending. There is literally no more of that story to say... even if Ethan's life went on, do we really want to know what he did, how his life dragged out? His main accomplishment is over and now is the denoument, or perhaps not, but really, would we WANT to have anything but that closed door and ceaseless wandering we envision? NO WAY. I could see Hollywood nowadays remaking this film and trying to resolve it in a different way (yes I know there is a remake already). UGH. The same folks in Hollywood who assume that a remake is a good idea are the same folks who probably assume that we want a "happy ending". Deluded thinking.

I was thinking about this very question last night, watching They Won't Believe Me again. DON'T READ if you haven't SEEN the MOVIE.

The movie, whose main premise is that two women involved with the same philandering man each die on the same day, implicating the guy who only wished one of them dead. Eddie Muller, in the introduction to the film said that the ending was changed by the studio, because any man who philandered or wished his wife dead would have to die according to the production code. Personally, I found the ending very satisfying in a "the cards are stacked against you" way, or a "fate will catch up to you" way. But it made me curious as to what the original ending was.... could it have possibly been better than the defendant being so overcome by guilt that he throws himself out the window, only to have the verdict read out as "not guilty" seconds later?
User avatar
CineMaven
Posts: 3815
Joined: September 24th, 2007, 9:54 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by CineMaven »

Ingenue...don't tease me with that tiny little morsel. Step on in the conversation. :)
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by RedRiver »

This is an enthralling discussion. (I can't wait to see how it ends!) I don't think of Ford's incredibly complex western as having an UNHAPPY ending. As Rohanaka has illustrated, most of the characters are home, safe and together. Ethan was "born to wander." He's doing exactly that. Anything else would indeed be a sad curtain for this man. I would even postulate (if I knew what it meant) that Ethan will continue to do what he's always done. Roam the west, get involved in a few skirmishes, be "too ornery to die". He won't exactly be happy. But he'll be comfortable.

This is not Frank Capra happy. Mary Poppins doesn't appear. But there are degrees of positive and negative. There are much darker conclusions than this one!
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by JackFavell »

That's a great point! He simply can't settle down anywhere.
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by RedRiver »

At least once a day, I wish that lifestyle was attainable in today's world. Now it's called homeless! If I could be comfortable; food, bus fare, a shabby motel room, I'd love to live like Ethan!
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by RedRiver »

Of course, I'd have to have my dog. But Hondo has Sam. It's so much easier in the movies!
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by JackFavell »

I'm with you, Red! Like in Hallelujah, I'm a Bum.... the choice is yours, to go where you want, not tied by any job or obligations.
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: "THE END" - HAPPY or SAD??

Post by RedRiver »

I still live like your basic college student. Scrappy furniture. A handful of T-shirts. Some Beefaroni in the cabinet. And a dog! If opportunity calls, I can be packed and gone in no time!
Post Reply