Movies for a sense of self

[Professional Tourist]

Masha, I think I understand your line of thinking, but it's not clear to me what type of discussion you're looking for -- as far as I can tell, no questions have been asked.

For myself, if I were to lose my memory as described here, I don't think I'd wish to rebuild the same personality I have now. I think I'd be better off starting fresh, rather than to try to re-create my old self through documentation of what films or books were formative to my original personality. If healthy guidance were available I could probably find a better path than I did the first time.

[CineMaven]

Masha,

At the risk of being that annoying kid in class who is an eager beaver and frantically raising her hand ( probably being ignored by the teacher with a: and avoiding calling on me, ) I want to tell you that I understand EXACTLY what you are asking and hope to provide you my list and reasons for these films before the day's end.

What an absolute thought-provoking question you posted, and one that unfortunately hits pretty close to home for me.

[Lucky Vassall]

I agree. This could be a lot of fun, and I'll start working on my lists right away.

For now, the one movie that comes to mind for a "first time" again is E.T., especially the scene when those bicycles take off.

But I also came close to going out to complain to management that the theater was full of youngsters, and they had the nerve to KILL E.T.!

Fortunately, I waited just long enough.

[Lomm]

Very thought provoking. I think it will be much easier to come up with the list of 4 to watch for the first time because of how they made me feel than it will the life-defining. It'll be hard to keep it to a list of 4, for that matter! I will have to consider carefully.

[Professional Tourist]

For myself, if I were to lose my memory as described here, I don't think I'd wish to rebuild the same personality I have now. I think I'd be better off starting fresh, rather than to try to re-create my old self through documentation of what films or books were formative to my original personality. If healthy guidance were available I could probably find a better path than I did the first time.

I have no clinical experience with amnesia but for that which typically occurs post-anesthesia which resolves quickly. I have little clinical experience with abnormal psychology but for a short rotation in a non-violent ward as a student.

It is my understanding through coursework and other readings that amnesiacs typically suffer dysphoria due to the depersonalization of losing part of oneself. I find it difficult to resolve the zen-like acceptance that one could become a better person while agitated, depressed and possibly suicidal.

It is also that loss of episodic memory is distinct from loss of semantic memory. Semantic memory is knowledge, beliefs and prejudices. Episodic memory relates how you came to that knowledge, those beliefs and those prejudices.

I must admit, Masha, that the science behind this scenario is beyond my understanding -- so I'll have to bow out of the discussion. Sorry.

[CineMaven]

I must admit that I do not know if it is a good thing for you to understand me as it is common for lunatics to understand each other well even although no one else does.

No worries on that score Masha. I always suffer from temporary insanity when I talk about movies, and snap back into reality as soon as I turn on MSNBC.

I have read a case history in which a person suffered retrograde amnesia with systematized loss of episodic memory due to trauma.

The major presentation was that he had no memory of any books which he had read.

I must wonder what it would be like to forget having watched any movies. There are movies which I feel were so significant to me that I can to some small degree say that my life was divided between the time before I watched the movie and the time after.

My mother currently suffers from dementia. It is really rough to see our family’s bookkeeper no longer able to do numbers or not remember visiting my apartment. Or where she put her glasses. Or that she already did a thing she already did five times before the five times she did it before that. My mother pretty much lives in the moment. Moment to moment. Disheartening to my family, and probably very scary to her, if she could even admit that something is wrong. So reading your question ( and I’m glad you were able to articulate what you were trying to express to us ) hits home because memory loss strikes at the heart of being a critical thinking being. I hope I won’t be in danger of this affliction, but heredity must be taken into account. Your question is interesting food for thought if this fate does befall me. I'd hate to lose movies.

For myself, if I were to lose my memory as described here, I don't think I'd wish to rebuild the same personality I have now. I think I'd be better off starting fresh, rather than to try to re-create my old self through documentation of what films or books were formative to my original personality.

I like the train of thought you bring up, P.T. because what IS to say that if we could recreate ourselves, we'd want to recreate ourselves in the same image we were in before, and not in a different image we have of ourselves. This might be our chance.

Masha, you have broken up your question into two categories:

1) Create a list of approx. four movies whose significance could be used as nearly a definition of who you were.

2) Create a list of approx. six movies which you would treasure the opportunity to watch as if for the first time.

My list simultaneously reflects both your questions, Masha. Please don’t flog me with a wet noodle for not exactly categorizing my film choices. I’m not 100% sure if my list would tell someone who I am as a person, but moreso about the topics that attract me. Also built into the list are my awe inspiring reactions to seeing something I’ve never seen or experienced before. My list contains spoilers. But hey, if you lose your memory, you won’t remember what I gave away:

“MEMENTO” ( 2001 )


GUY PEARCE

This movie is a case in point. I saw it when it was originally released, but I don’t remember the details of it. It makes me imagine what memory loss must be like. The only difference is this gentleman KNOWS he has short term memory issues. He's chasing himself over and over again in this.

* * * * *

“PSYCHO” ( 1960 )


ANTHONY PERKINS

It was seeing the Anthony Hopkins movie about Hitchcock that crystallized for me how the story of “Psycho” was a shocking shocking thing for audiences of 1959/1960 and something audiences diddn’t expect from Hitchcock. Shock ‘n awe this film is. I've seen slasher horror films since. ( Not that “Psycho” is that. ) How shocking, that murder in the shower. How creepy the house and the music and Norman in that old lady get-up. I've seen its perfection for years now. How I wish I could see it for the first time, again to discover it. I can only do it through others.

* * * * *

“STAR WARS” ( 1977 )


HARRISON FORD & A WOOKIE

When I took off from work that day in ‘77 ( feigned illness ) and saw “Star Wars” I literally felt what it must have felt like for my father to see “Flash Gordon” in 1936 when he was a little boy. Yes, I’ve seen sci-fi films before. ( Still hadn’t comprehended “2001: A Space Odyssey” so I didn't know what I was seeing with that one. ) The ships, the sets, the graphics were just so amazing. But the scene where the Millennium Falcon jumps into hyperspace had me OUT OF MY SEAT!! The audience was cheering and screaming. What the heck was that?!!! How innovative of Lucas to show speed this way. I have tiny nephews who haven’t seen this movie yet. Would they sit through it even if it’s not a Lego movie? I'll give it the good ol' college try. The last 'new car' feeling I got was looking at “The Matrix.”

* * * * *

“JAMES BOND” ( 1962 )


SEAN CONNERY

When my mother took us to see “Thunderball” my sister thought it was a movie about a boy and his horse. We hadn't seen “Dr. No.” Boy did this blow our pre-teen little minds. Well, mostly it was Sean Connery who was the mindblower, though we hadn’t the proper words to express what we were “feeling.” I was hooked. He was so handsome, sexy, suave, self-assured, commanding. And the places he traveled to were exotic and glamorous. Something totally far and away from two little girls in Harlem. I’m used to the settings, and the beddings and the grand locations now. I wish I could see them again with wide-eyed wonder and wish to be a Bond girl.

* * * * *

“THE SIXTH SENSE” ( 1999 )


HAYLEY JOEL OSMENT

I’ve already discovered the secret of the movie, hiding in plain sight for all of us to decipher and still tricking me. I think seeing this movie a second or third time actually changes this movie. I want the secret of this movie to be new again for me. “The Usual Suspect” is in this vein too. I like movies that hide in plain sight.

* * * * *

“BLAZING SADDLES” ( 1974 )


CLEAVON LITTLE

I guess “Blazing Saddles” represents a time for me when comedies gave me bellyaches of laughter. The funniest movie I ever saw was “The Odd Couple.” My sister and I saw it at Radio City Music Hall and left in tears from laughing so hard. I saw the movie years later and it totally lost its funny bone quotient. WAH!!! Wha' happened?! Mel Brooks and Woody Allen had a spate of comedies that just slayed me back in the 70's. Woody’s films made me feel smart ( like the New Yorker that I yam. ) Mel’s movies were just plain riots. I want those laughs back. ( Even on my next viewing of this movie at TCM’s upcoming film festival, I know the movie will be like an old friend. I can't wait to see Cleavon Little's palomino again. Absolutely gorgeous. Almost prettier than Kirk Douglas' horse in “Lonely Are the Brave.” Almost. )

* * * * *

“OUT OF THE PAST” ( 1947 )


ROBERT MITCHUM & JANE GREER

Aren’t there some movies you just don’t remember seeing them the first time; like they’ve always been there as part of your consciousness? I feel that way about “Out of the Past.” Actually the movie doesn’t even have to be new for me. I just want to watch Mitchum and Greer. But I must admit this, I would like to watch it with someone with the patience and good sense to watch a good film noir. I want to hear them gasp when Mitchum’s voice over announces: “He had followed her.”



Nice sexy spin “Against All Odds” put on the story. But I’ll take Jane Greer walking in out of the sunlight.

* * * * *

“SILENCE OF THE LAMBS” ( 1991 )



The sheer horrifying terror of using a serial killer to catch a murderer. I was horrified throughout. Oh that doesn’t mean I looked away. No no. Jodie Foster guided me through that entire movie, the one normal thing to cling to. Hopkins was brilliant, and the movie was perfectly cast. I want to discover its brilliance all over again. Even if I have to go through Dr. Lechter.

* * * * *

“TYRONE POWER”


TYRONE POWER

You know what Tyrone Power represents to me? Discovering ‘old movie stars.’ Seeing them for the first time. One clear recollection I have is seeing Merle Oberon for the first time in “The Cowboy and the Lady.” ( Who is that? I already knew Gary Cooper. And my sister introduced me to the charms of Paul Newman. ) With Power, I’ve almost just stopped watching his movies for their plot and just gaze at him. ( This just happened recently with seeing “Johnny Apollo.” ) He’s just absolutely so blazingly and elegantly good looking. I remember seeing a very innocuous little comedy called “Meet the Stewarts”...



...and being absolutely bowled over by Frances Dee. I’ve since come to know her ( thank you Ingenue wherever you are for the fifty Frances Dee films you sent me!! ) and in better movies. But that first time...

I guess I just want to discover my movie stars all over again.

* * * * *

Memory loss is a terrible terrible thing. Events just wash over you like water. You can’t grab onto anything. You can’t hold onto anything. But then again, everything is new to you.

[Lucky Vassall]

Love CM’s list. I would certainly have included Memento if I thought of it. Also a lot of duplicates to my list. Not the actual films, but the reasons they’re on the list: Psycho, Star Wars, 6th Sense, Blazing Saddles etc.

Herewith what I made of the effort:

I found the first “amnesia” list harder than I expected. Perhaps I’m taking the subject to literally, but the best I could come up with is either:

A San Francisco movie, to jog my memory, such as What’s Up Doc? or The Conversation, especially for that opening scene, since I live within a few blocks of Union Square, and the Square as it was then is stronger in my memory that the current cement platter, even though I go through it nearly every day.

or

One of the most recent movies I watched. In my case, right now, that would be either The Spanish Gardner or His Girl Friday. Next week it would be others.

No trouble at all with the “first time” over again list, except for trying (unsuccessfully) to keep it down the the suggested six. To E.T., I would like to add:

Pinocchio. Because it was the very first film I ever saw. (Downhill ever since!) (Not true, but I had to say it just the same.)
The Wizard of Oz. This was back before TV. I was still in my early teens and saw it in the theater, always a more enriching experience. Truth: I went out to the lobby to complain to the usher that the photos outside the theater claimed it was in COLOR!
400 Blows. Unlike anything I’d ever seen. It was when it was on its first run in New York. I actually had trouble standing up after that astonishing ending.
Diabolique. Absolutely the biggest horror shock I ever got at the movies, and it was just a week after I saw Psycho.
2001 A Space Odyssey. Like 400 Blows, it changed my view of what movies were and what they could do to you.
One, Two, Three. The fastest, funniest movie ever. Even though it’s subject matter is badly dated now, I still prefer it to Wilder’s Some Like it Hot.
Billy Elliott. It lifted me out of myself as no other film has before or since. I think it was his joy in life, in spite of his sad surroundings.
And finally,
Lovers of Teruell {sp?}. A Spanish dance movie, the Romeo and Juliet plot among travelling gypsies, which I saw more than fifty years ago but which has stayed in my mind ever since. Hey, I just realized, maybe this one belongs up there in the amnesia list.

NOT on my list:

Umberto D. I saw that when I was in my early twenties and couldn’t connect with it. Now that I’m of an age to match (surpass?) Umberto, I think I could accept it, but I’d still find the closeups of the roaches stomach turning. It’s not De Sica; I later saw Bicycle Thieves and Shoeshine, and they’ve always been among my favorites. I think it was just that I wasn’t ready for so much realism at that point.

Finally, thanks, Masha, for coming up with this idea. It was even more fun thinking about the films than I expected.

(and make what you will of my list, just don’t have me committed)

[JackFavell]

I'm going to go at this list in a bit different way than others, I think.

The line in Masha's post that most struck me was the one where she said that she could divide her life into 'Before' and 'After' seeing certain films, they affected her so. And that is what my first list is about. These are films that literally changed my life.

1. The Grapes of Wrath

A man lives sorta - well, in jerks. A baby's born or somebody dies, and that's a jerk. He gets a farm or loses it, and that's a jerk. With a woman, it's all in one flow, like a stream - little eddies and waterfalls - but the river, it goes right on. A woman looks at it thata way.

- Ma Joad

I saw a movie and it was a jerk, or perhaps the beginning of a little stream or waterfall.

I saw The Grapes of Wrath when I was ten or so, it could have been as late as twelve. I had absolutely no real concept of poverty or of hardship. I don't know what kind of shallow person I would be if I hadn't watched this film. I'd like to have thanked John Ford for giving me the foundation for a life in which (I hope) tolerance, caring and generosity rule. The Grapes of Wrath stunned me. I can remember being silent for a long, long time after seeing it. I don't mean hours...I mean days....weeks spent thinking about it. The shock of realizing that there were some people in the world who were badly off, and that there were others, in fact, many who did not care, and even thought that those poor souls deserved to be badly off rocked me to the core. That this was the universal condition...well, it was a wake up call to me. I imagine something about those stark, documentary style black and white images, so true, so real had something to do with the powerful effect it had on me. And the words about being a part of something bigger, the spirit of man. I still cry every time I see John Qualen hugging the ground in this film. Seeing him crouched down crying, holding a handful of dirt, and then nothing, no emotion at all....that is the moment I grew up. Although the phrase is from Lost Horizon, this film taught me to "be kind". I would say this is the single movie that shaped my life, if I had to pick one.

2. A Streetcar Named Desire

It's funny, I don't see this film as too much different than The Grapes of Wrath. I know that is an odd thing to say, but both films are about tolerance, I believe. I guess most of the movies that have affected me deeply are. This film also decided me on a career in acting, and so much more. Again, I had that feeling deep in the pit of my stomach watching it. My first psychological film. I believe I connected deeply to Tennessee Williams, his urge to dig into the psyches of his characters, to the point of drawing blood. I am still deeply analytical, painfully so, and the poetry of his world, the dreaminess, the emotion of it all swept me away and made me know that there were others like me.

3. Paper Moon/What's Up, Doc?

I do realize I am cheating here. These two films in tandem connect me to my family. I saw Paper Moon with my mom, and What's Up, Doc? with my sister at times very close to one another. They also are each very representative of my character.

What's Up, Doc? is a great screwball comedy. It pretty much includes everything I love about the genre. It even has Bugs Bunny in it! I would need this film in my list to show the sense of humor I have.

Paper Moon is a road movie. It's funny and poignant and harsh. It's very indicative of my urge to go - to travel - to leave -to run away like a coward. I also enjoy the love hate dynamic in the film, the way these two people are too stubborn to say out loud that they love one another and belong together. They would rather leave than say it. It also reminds me of my roots in the midwest. My family and background is very much like the people in Paper Moon. They can be harsh and even barren seeming, but underneath, there can be great feeling. This film being something of a heist film, it also plays into my wish to subvert the dominant paradigm.

4. Curse of the Cat People

This film goes to a place deep within. I can't say any more about it. I sometimes feel it's about me. Again, another film about tolerance. I'm quite a tender person, one who doesn't fit in. I love make believe. Together with Cat People, it speaks to my heart.


I'm finding the second list very difficult to compile.

[ChiO]

1) Create a list of approx. four movies whose significance could be used as nearly a definition of who you were.

In honor of Harold Ramis, these would the reliving of my life (in quasi-chronological order), such as it was:

1. HIGH FIDELITY - Three young men pretending to be men even though they're really still boys. At first I thought I was Jon Cusack's character. Repeated viewing convinced me that I was a composite of the three. Further viewing showed me that, no, the three were one - the Ego, Id and Superego. Plus it has that glorious Chicago connection (filmed a mere 6 el stops from our home). But I still haven't seen EVIL DEAD II...yet.

2. DINER - Young men struggling to be men and fearful of not still being boys. But it's good. The young woman I saw it with upon release said I was Shrevie. My ex-wife, when she saw it, said I was Shrevie. MrsChiO, when she saw it, said I was Shrevie. And here I thought I was a combination of Boogie and Fenwick. <sigh> And, when that bouncing bridal bouquet finally lands, I still get choked up.

3. PLAY IT AGAIN, SAM - He's grown up and it's not good. I saw it upon release while in college. "Allan. That's me, except I haven't been married," says I. I saw it three more times that summer. Seeing it again when married, "Allan. That's me, except I haven't been divorced," says I. Seeing it again (two or three times) when divorced, "Allan. That is me," says I. Seeing it now...well, that was me (I think. I hope. Maybe I don't remember. After all, I love the rain - it washes memories off the sidewalk of life.). But it still, every single line from beginning to end, makes me laugh. And blush.

4. HUSBANDS - Three men being boys because they are men confronting their mortality. There's that Ego, Id and Superego again.

2) Create a list of approx. six movies which you would treasure the opportunity to watch as if for the first time.

I know it's not supposed to be a list of favorites, but it's my six favorite movies...and why wouldn't I want to treasure the opportunity to watch as if for the first time?

1. CITIZEN KANE - The ultimate achievement in cinema. A composite of what came before and yet, because of that, different than what came before. And still leading the way.

2. THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC - Spiritual, political and visually stunning (special thanks to Rudolph Mate for getting Dreyer's vision on the screen). I would contend that Falconetti's performance is the finest in film history.

3. STARS IN MY CROWN - Tourneur's masterpiece in a filmography filled with fine films. Community, Faith and Memory (I guess the latter really makes it an appropriate choice).

4. A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH - One can count on Powell to provide perverse humor while presenting a serious testament to Faith and Love. He should have been awarded a Th.D after making this.

5. LOVE STREAMS - A mystery. A love story. MrsChiO and I saw it upon release (golly, we'd only been married for four or five months). I was in awe. She was devastated (and hasn't watched a Cassavetes movie since). And that final shot...in this, the final Cassavetes movie...never ceases to make me treasure this movie and him. To quote the eulogy delivered by his pal Timothy Carey: Hail, Cassavetes!

6. KILLER OF SHEEP - I saw it for the first time when it was making the rounds in selected theatres just before the DVD release. The next night, I dragged my family to see it. There can be different takes on it, but I find it to be life affirming and a monument to the human Spirit.

Addendum:

The three movies that I saw in my late pre-teen/early teen years (on television) that told me that movies are something more than entertainment -

CITIZEN KANE - I still kinda like it.

KING KONG - Dinosaurs, thrills and an ending that stills puts a lump in my throat. What more can one ask for?

REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE - Sure. Seeing it the first time, my jaw dropped. James Dean (who knew what a Nicholas Ray was?) captured all the angst I felt and feared. As years passed, too embarrassed to admit how much a liked a "teen" movie, I would say that EAST OF EDEN was the Dean movie (it also had another actor that developed into an obsession). Then, when my older daughter was about the age I was when I first saw it, we watched it together. Her jaw dropped (and about a month later her mother called me and asked if I'd shown it to her. "Yes. Why?" "Because she's turned her bedroom into a James Dean shrine!"). When our younger daughter was at that age, I showed it to her. Her jaw dropped. A few months later, coming back from my parents' farm, I took an unannounced detour. "Where are we going, Dad." I stayed quiet. Then they saw a sign: "Fairmount 15 miles." What a great afternoon. Oh, to relive the total experience. P.S. I watch it now more for Sal Mineo than for Dean. But that's okay.

[JackFavell]

ChiO - I love your lists. It made me laugh, it made me cry. Your James Dean story in relation to your family was moving.

[lakme1021]

Random question, but to JackFavell: what a lovely picture in your avatar! Could you please tell me the names of the couple?