Giallo

Moderators: movieman1957, kingrat, moira finnie, Sue Sue Applegate, Lzcutter

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:49 pm

MR. ARKADIN artfully wrote:"...there is a connection with eroticism and madness (also found in Poe's work), where it seems that desire can enslave not only the body, but the mind as well.


With everyone reading Browning and Bronte and romantic stories back then...I wonder how Edgar Allan Poe's works were received by 19th century audiences? Did folks wait for them like scary movies ( "The Exorcist" "Dracula" etc. )

...So far, I'm liking what I'm seeing of this genre. Ha...crazy to say, right...with all the blood guts gore and nudity. Your analysis of the films raises them waaaay beyond the level of sexploitation, though my writing might not be deep enough to talk about the Giallic themes. I don't think I'm 'such' a big fan of the story line of "Is this real or is it Memorex." It's relentless, kind of one-note ( we're only inside one character's head: 'Am I going crazy?' and I begin to think "...well sheesh, how many ways CAN you scare the pants of Edwige?" But I liked "All The Colors..." just fine. The ending felt just a tad abrupt. But you know what...it's all good.

I'm working my way through "THE DESIGNATED VICTIM" now, which I instantly pick up it borrows its plot from "STRANGERS ON A TRAIN." And Venice looks gray and moody. I'm thinking this film is not giallo but a straight up drama thriller. HOW will our hero get out of THIS? I'm curious. Basically I like going along for the ride that movies offer. You opened the door, Mr. A.

What I do kind of smile at with these movies ( :-) ) are its opening credits. They get right to it, the titles appear, and the music sounds like harpsichords. with maybe some haunting Loreleis la la-ing a few refrains.

Slightly edited...
Last edited by CineMaven on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:19 pm

You have to remember that these films were based on the Mondadori pulp novels which also included repackaged versions of Agatha Christie, Poe, Edgar Wallace, Raymond Chandler, and other well known stories. The novels first appeared in 1929 and were simply called "Giallo" because of the yellow cover. This is still how mysteries are referred to in Italy today. If you want to watch an episode of Murder She Wrote in Italian for example, it is titled La Signora in Giallo. In Bava's The Evil Eye (1962) the protagonist is reading a giallo on the plane and is obsessed with pulp mysteries to the extent that no one takes her seriously when she begins experiencing a "giallo" of her own!

While the Italians repackaged ideas of noir, mystery, and horror (paying special attention to Hitch, Lang, and others) those original ideas and themes are still very present. Freddy Vs. Jason this is definitely not! The Designated Victim is a good example of this, where the protagonist faces a moral dilemma on several fronts. I also feel the themes of the movie play a bit closer to Highsmith's original novel's intent. Hitchcock's film is a classic and I enjoy it, but it's a much simpler world with a corresponding black and white view of right and wrong. The Designated Victim does not let us off the hook so easily.
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:35 pm

Uh-hunh, I see. Whoa, I didn’t know that ( Mondadori etc. ). Not that I was implying they didn’t come up with anything original ( ha...what IS new under the sun, anyway? 8) ) I am glad these are not “Freddy vs. Jason” films. Little to none is explored in the 'moral dilemma' department in those. I think American films ( in a very very general sense ) deal with the right & wrong/black & white of things where as Europeans have gradient shades of gray.

The thing that has freaked me out and that I’m now actively looking forward to, are the giallos' mystery solution coming out of left field. I kind of want to say happily:

“I didn’t see THAT coming!”

Thanxx for taking the time to talk to me about all this. I honestly do see a college course in your future on this genre.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:38 pm

They're kinda addictive like Lays potato chips: You can't enjoy just one of them.
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:38 am

I figured this would be a safe place to post this.
I recorded A Quiet Place in the Country (1969) off TCM last year for a couple of reasons:

1) Anything with Franco Nero is usually worth seeing and Vanessa Redgrave was his main squeeze at this time.


2) Ennio Morricone did the score and I like his work.

3) Italian thriller--hmm, this sounds like a Giallo!...-3/17/12


I see you are an ENNIO MORRICONE fan.
Although masterfully directed, it's the players abilities to convey the unspeakable that give this film its depth, and in some contexts, For a Few Dollars More plays almost like something from the silent genre. Scoring was in the hands of legendary composer Ennio Morricone whose work is always stellar, but in this particular film it's his music that helps us to understand the plot and brings the story to it's climax. - 3/7/08

Once Upon a Time in the West has several American stars, including Henry Fonda, Charles Bronson, and Jason Robards. It also features Morricone's music and has some wonderful cinematography along with with a gripping storyline. - 5/22/09

Corbucci made three movies at this time, the best being the legendary Django (1966). Navajo Joe is a significantly lesser film, but it's not completely awful by any means. After all, Ennio Morricone does the score. - 3/9/10

If Bird, Four Flies, and Deep Red are visionary films, Cat O' Nine Tails deals with other senses...Composer Ennio Morricone uses different musical cues to differentiate the characters, further underpinning and deepening their roles. Cookie and Franco's melodic flute theme is shared only during the lovemaking of Carlo and Anna, as it deals with the idea of a personal bond, while the killer's funk cue suggests investigative exploration, leaving the actual set piece murders mostly silent... - 3/3/12

I found the discussion about his working with Leone on Once Upon a Time in the West (1969) fascinating.I knew that he wrote for this film, but not to the extent he described. It also makes sense when you see how he had Ennio Morricone sync themes for The Cat O' Nine Tails and Four Flies on Grey Velvet with people and events, much like he did earlier in Leone's film, although I had heard that Morricone originally began to work on Argento's debut, The Bird with the Crystal Plumage as a personal favor to his father, who was a well known producer. - 3/7/12

A lot of the scores are inspiring as well. North by Northwest (1959) is not one of my favorite Hitchcock movies, but the score is to die for. Same thing with the looping phrase in Vertigo (1958), which I used to loop myself and solo over years ago. I was talking to Mr. ChiO about having to cover a song that I particularly hated and did not suit my style of playing at all. To make it interesting, I decided to base the solo a different Ennio Morricone theme each time. - 4/30/12


You might be interested in an article my friend Brian wrote. He does a good piece on his blog about Ennio Morricone relating to his music, which I'll post here, and I found a great YouTube clip, illustrating Morricone's evocative music:

Image Image

"Ol' blue eyes" is the scariest thing you'll ever want to encounter in a Western. It's a movie worth seeing, and Morricone's music enhances it beyond beyond...
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:12 pm

You're right. I have long been a fan of Morricone as well as many other film composers. My father collected big band Jazz, 45's from the era of his youth (50's), 40's radio serials, and film soundtracks. He often purchased records to films he'd never seen simply because he knew the composer and that stuff was always playing (and fighting for turntable space with my mom's classical music) in our house.

I'd like to see your friend's article whenever you want to share it. So you like Once Upon a time in the West? Here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iEHvbfQvw4[/youtube]

I would disagree about the fear factor of Fonda in a single western (although Fonda is unnerving and awesome in the part)--Klaus Kinski is definitely my man for that role and The Great Silence (1968) might be perhaps the most downbeat western ever made. Here's a look with a score by you know who:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZR9cMcPbg[/youtube]

By the way all of the recent Martino films you have enjoyed were scored by Bruno Nicoli, who conducted all of Morricone's early work for the screen and was a protege of his.
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:37 pm

Mr. A., please click on the above two pictures in my last post to read Brian's article, and check out a YouTube video.

I'll have to go back and carefully re-read the Musical Tastes forum from long long long ago. You're quite biographical there and I'll be able to read who you really is. I haven't seen "Once Upon A Time..." in a very very long time. ( Blonde haired Klaus Kinski, ey? ) I'm due to re-visit...but I really want to get this giallo under my big fat belt. I'm also putting the finishing touches on my Meg Ramsey project. Here...please check out my itsby - bitsy - teeny - weeny - yellow - polka - dotted preview from Season 2 of "MEG RAMSEY."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5FYndXNgI&list=UUl936aoPXWsPcooV6DizLTg&index=2&feature=plcp[/youtube]

Wish I could seek you out for some incidental music for our project. Dagnabit!!! I couldn't pay you, but you'd be riding on the crest of a giant wave of indie creativity.

:roll: Yeah, I know. :roll:
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:04 pm

Interesting article. I've seen almost all those movies. I have been considering threads on Italian Westerns and Poliziotteschi (crime films), but I think reaction might be similar to the Giallo thread. Doesn't mean I won't do it, but at this point I don't have the time to invest in something that will not generate conversation here.

As for doing some music, contact my agent. 8)

No, seriously I am actually doing a lot of things on the cheap, or for free right now to network and create interest. As long as I'm credited and retain publishing rights of what I create, I'll be glad to do it, providing it's just solo guitar, or synth (I cannot bring other instumentalists to a project and not pay them--also not satisfied with my trumpet playing at this point to actually record it).
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:57 pm

I'll have my people ..... ( :shock: ) ..... contact your people ( 8) ). We'll contact you via PM or e-mail. Your publishing rights remain solely YOURS, and screen credit would be given.

I know what you mean about not creating a thread that won't generate a general conversation - ( time-consuming ). But know that this thread hasn't been in vain. Even though I'm just a girl, I've learned a lot from going through most of the thread. I've added a new genre to my cinema-belt and spent some spooky nights in a SRO, dark movie theatrewith my jaw dropped.

Also...I got this:

Image

Shall I give up the ghost in writing on what I've seen?
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby ChiO » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:35 pm

Don't give up the ghost quite yet.

Upon numerous assurances that it is ChiO-safe, I watched ANIMA PERSA (Dino Risi 1977). If Luchino Visconti ever directed a Poe story, this might be it. We are surrounded by decay and corruption. Locale: Venice, a beautiful city that has seemingly secret spaces (one is forever getting lost and thankful for it) and is slowly decaying. Main set: A palazzo that is half magnificent and open, and half rotten and forbidden. Two of the three main characters: Slowly revealing the Truth, half of which is Lies. One of those two characters: Austrian and proud of the Habsburg legacy, which became decrepit and is now gone.

Mr. Ark has provided the narrative set-up earlier in this thread and I will not reveal more. Suffice it to say that it is beautifully shot, edited and acted. Gassman and Deneuve give glorious performances, as does Danilo Mattei (The Innocent Youth), with whom I was unfamiliar and who apparently was making his film debut.

The only negative from my perspective is the dialogue. As the movie develops and the theme (and plot secret) becomes more evident, the dialogue tends to become increasingly unsubtle and blatant. I suppose that it is a tribute to Risi that, despite that, the film remains engaging. Were it less stylish visually, I would really complain.

Perhaps the biggest surprise was some of the humor, especially early in the film. A favorite: Tino (Mattei), a student of painting, is offered coffee by the lovely young nude model during a break in class. Asked whether he wants sugar, he stares at her and stammers, "Two or three." She asks, "Two or three?" He replies, "Three," all the better to force her to linger. Cut. In the palazzo with Fabio (Gassman) and Sofia (Deneuve), the old homely maid offers him coffee and asks whether he wants sugar. "One or two," Tino says. "One or two?" the maid asks. "One," he replies. Ahhh...the innocence of youth. But not necessarily for long.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
User avatar
ChiO
 
Posts: 3876
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Giallo

Postby CineMaven » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 pm

CASPER CASPER...GO AWAY!

Image

MORE GIALLO COMING THIS WAY.

Hi ChiO. :) Guess I'll make "ANIMA PERSA" my next visit into the frisson of Giallo so I won't have to tiptoe through your post above, and just be able to dive right in.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
 
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:54 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:28 pm

Glad to see you finding some treasure in the Eurotrash dumpster Mr. ChiO. Anima Persa is perhaps giallo's most elegant foray into the colliding worlds of philosophy, sexuality, and insanity, where great acting and a superb screenplay come together to make some very profound statements usually reserved for lectures and thesis writing. The Visconti comment was not lost on me either when one thinks of films like The Leopard (1963), or Senso (1954), where the decay of the aristocracy is married to warm earth tones and a elegant visual flair that seems to indicate a fall from grace.

While a sharp eye can decipher the mystery, it certainly does not detract from your enjoyment of the film. In many cases, I find the motives, or circumstances of the crime more interesting than the whodunnit aspect. Fulci explores this option constantly, using a simple mystery to foist his own political and social ideas upon us. Another interesting option of giallo is the idea of a exploratory journey, where in films like The Flower with Petals of Steel (1973), the looking often means more than the finding.

Other low violence gialli in the melodramatic vein:

Devil in the Brain (1972)
The Evil Eye (1962)
Seven Notes in Black (1977)
The Double (1971)
Fragment of Fear (1970)
Liz and Helen (1969)
The Designated Victim (1971)
Detective Beli (1969)
The Lady in the Lake (1965)
Deadly Sweet (1967)
The Bloodstained Butterfly (1971)
The Monster (1977)
Footprints (1975)
Orgasmo (1969)
Copkiller (1983)
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby charliechaplinfan » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:56 pm

I watched Anima Persa today, I wrot it up on the foreign movies thread, the calibre of director and stars deserves it to be aired on more than one thread in my mind. Here's what I wrote bt can any of you answer my questions?

I watched Anima Persa today, a film directed by Dino Risi and starring Vittorio Gassman and Catherine Deneuve. This Risi film is nothing like his other movies that I've seen, it fits into Giallo films, it's a haunting story, very reminscient of Don't Look Now, it's set in Venice, in a huge old house only part of which is used by the family. The nephew of the family comes to stay and study in Venice, he uncovers a family secret which has many layers it's rather like peeling an onion. For me the film's delight is in the portrayal of the married couple played by Gassman and Deneuve and also in the depiction of Venice. Deneuve is lit to look very pale and fragile, Gassman is a well dressed and groomed gas engineer.

I'm not sure I understood all the facets of the story though, I'm not even sure I was meant to. I spotted straight away who was playing the professor, I've seen the actor in enough films to know that this is the kind of role he enjoyed. Did the porfessor ever exist? Does the marriage exist? Did Beba exist? Is Beba, Elise? And why the prostitute if he has Beba? feel free to PM me if you don't want to reveal too much.

Great performances and although I saw who was the professor I didn't guess all of it.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
User avatar
charliechaplinfan
 
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby Mr. Arkadin » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:26 am

charliechaplinfan wrote:I watched Anima Persa today, I wrot it up on the foreign movies thread, the calibre of director and stars deserves it to be aired on more than one thread in my mind. Here's what I wrote bt can any of you answer my questions?

I watched Anima Persa today, a film directed by Dino Risi and starring Vittorio Gassman and Catherine Deneuve. This Risi film is nothing like his other movies that I've seen, it fits into Giallo films, it's a haunting story, very reminscient of Don't Look Now, it's set in Venice, in a huge old house only part of which is used by the family. The nephew of the family comes to stay and study in Venice, he uncovers a family secret which has many layers it's rather like peeling an onion. For me the film's delight is in the portrayal of the married couple played by Gassman and Deneuve and also in the depiction of Venice. Deneuve is lit to look very pale and fragile, Gassman is a well dressed and groomed gas engineer.

I'm not sure I understood all the facets of the story though, I'm not even sure I was meant to. I spotted straight away who was playing the professor, I've seen the actor in enough films to know that this is the kind of role he enjoyed. Did the porfessor ever exist? Does the marriage exist? Did Beba exist? Is Beba, Elise? And why the prostitute if he has Beba? feel free to PM me if you don't want to reveal too much.

Great performances and although I saw who was the professor I didn't guess all of it.


Glad you were able to see this one and I'll try an answer some of the questions. For those who haven't seen this movie or might want to in the future--STOP HERE.





Did the professor ever exist?
I'm not sure if you are referencing Fabio's brother, The art teacher, or Fabio's gambling buddy. Everyone but Fabio's brother is real.

Does the marriage exist?
It would appear so. See below.

Did Beba exist? Is Beba, Elise?
Yes, and yes.

Why the prostitute if he has Beba?
The movie does not explain this, but I would venture to say it is precisely because he does not have Beba anymore. She grew up. He loved her youth and innocence and she cannot provide that to him anymore. His response is a cruel domination of her life and a self destructive urge (manifested in his gambling, withdrawal from work and business, and whoring) over what he has done (the title means Lost Soul). Unwilling to give her up, he creates another personality, who will cling to his sin with dirty hands, while allowing Fabio to see himself as an upright man.

As you have said, there are many layers to this story. Hopefully, this will start the ball rolling to other questions or observations. I have by no means plumbed the depths of this remarkable movie, so discussion would be most welcome.
User avatar
Mr. Arkadin
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Giallo

Postby charliechaplinfan » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:01 pm

You've cleared some of it up but I'm confused in other areas. If Beba is Elise why would her nephew recognise her as Elise when she is Beba? Or is Beba just a name for another persona of Elise? Fabio loved Elise/Beba and that's who we see on the screen but cannot love the woman she become. Come on Fabio, it's Catherine Deneuve? She's beautiful even if she's pasty. She must have stood on the stage singing for him. She too yearns for his love but she will never have it again, that's why she's ill.

I knew the lunatic was played by a certain actor, it was obvious straight away but then it was explained away by brothers.

That's all for now, I'll go on the school run and no doubt come back with lots of other questions. It's stayed with me.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
User avatar
charliechaplinfan
 
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:49 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Foreign Films

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron