I Just Watched...

[CinemaInternational]

Just a few notes on some posts.....

Cinemaspeak, Remember the Night is a personal favorite. It is most likely the most underrated of Christmas films. It is so beautifully handled, and its always great to hear of people watching it and enjoying it.

AllHallows, That is likely the quintessential version of the Dickens saga, which says something because there have been so many versions and variations over the years of it.

It's been many years since I saw The Homecoming, but it served as the introduction to The Waltons, which was a wonderful series. I think I heard once that Patricia Neal did not continue to the actual series because she was unsure that she had recovered enough from her strokes to take on the sprawling job of a weekly series.

BagelonaPlate, yes, your username comes from Funny Girl, a memorable line in a terrific film (and may it be stated, your username was one of the most memorable on the old boards). I didn't know you were so young; it's such a relief to see another young soul who will continue the respect for the wonderful films of the past. It seems as though we have several favorites in common. (Disney, Julie and Barbra were staples of my childhood, The Sound of Music is my mother's favorite film, Meryl is one of my father's favorites, I had a big crush on Catherine Deneuve as a teenager, and I saw every single film Blake Edwards directed. Plus I love movie musicals, and there haven't been many of them I ever disliked.). You are very lucky to have had the chance to see so many Broadway musicals, it seems like a very vivid artform, and it endures.

If that poster is the one I am thinking about, don't feel bad. He seemed to think of himself as the social arbiter of it all, that his opinion was supreme. It wasn't. Being in that position, being harassed over one's personal feelings about film is a terrible one. And I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It always hurts, especially when several gang up on you at the same time. Don't worry about know-it-alls or about "consensus opinion", your own personal cinematic opinions are the ones that matter.

[And feel free to encourage your cousin to join, she'd be very much welcomed here by everyone. It's up to her of course, but she'd have plenty of good company here]

Lorna, , several things to attend to....

A) The Triumph of Sherlock Holmes definitely is stodgy and starchy. It's probably the most boring take on the classic character. Hollywood films were exceptional in the 1930s, but British films in the early 30s were often very creaky. The British really didn't get the hang of making talkies until the late 30s/early 40s. [Your comments on how boring it was reminded me of Libby Gelman-Waxner's comments on 1990's After Dark My Sweet , which I shared once on the old boards, but should do again]

B) I miss movie theatres as well, but on my few times there in recent years, there were so few people there. The very last time I was there (in September), I nearly fell over when I found out that the price for a matinee ticket was $9. Having big audiences, which I remember from going to see kids films years ago, was always great because you got a genuine feel of what the movie was doing for a whole group of people and not just oneself.

C) Yes, Disney used to have this edgy dark side, which surfaced in animated films ranging from Snow White, Pinocchio, and Fantasia, through the Sleepy Hollow segment in 1949 and the Maleficent scenes in 1959's Sleeping Beauty, through later offerings like The Black Cauldron and Atlantis: The Lost Empire (both of these I saw at age 6, the latter in the theatre, where the film actually broke in the middle of it. I was too young and too scaredy cat for both of them at the time, and I would reckon that Atlantis might even be given a PG-13 if it was reissued today, as it had two seriously freaky scenes, and a lot of vivid animated violence). It also surfaced in some live action offerings (they had a moment in one other 2000s release, Eight Below, that caused such a jump scare in the audience that even the adults were screaming). I wish that they had the bravery to do something like it again.

The Black Cauldron ended up being a crucial film for me. I disliked it the first time, but when I came back to it years later, I absolutely loved it, and my complete reassessment of it gave me the courage to get out of a bad situation in my life. I love the musical score in it, the movie is very brave, and the animation is great. And my username handle on the old IMDb boards was Taran of Prydain (I miss using that as a username, it had an element of intrigue and mystery that utterly ordinary little me never had)

D) Thanks for what you said about Dobbs; am glad it was not just me.... I did see Hot Spell once. It was good but nothing that would set the world aflame with the burning passion that the poster had for it....they had a reality program on TV this year where one contestant's mystery relatives were Donny and Marie, and the other contestants were absolutely clueless as to who they were. That Marie-fanatic poster would have been able to sniff things out in a New York minute.

Holden, Swithin, I thought the remake of West Side was decent. I missed the original Jerome Robbins dancing, and the new Tony was very bland, but Maria was well cast as was Anita, I was deeply touched by Rita Moreno getting the chance to sing "Somewhere", and it was the liveliest Spielberg directing job in some time.

Also Holden, no need to feel ashamed about how you feel or felt about the 50s; they are a decade that be slightly misleading at first. I am glad you found some films from that era that you admired. But everyone has at least one era they don't like quite as much as the others.

[Swithin]

J
Holden, Swithin, I thought the remake of West Side was decent. I missed the original Jerome Robbins dancing, and the new Tony was very bland, but Maria was well cast as was Anita, I was deeply touched by Rita Moreno getting the chance to sing "Somewhere", and it was the liveliest Spielberg directing job in some time.

Choreography is a problem these days. The lack of the Robbins choreography was a week link in the van Hove production as well. Robbins and Agnes de Mille get short changed these days. I saw a production of Gypsy in London a few years ago, starring Imelda Staunton. It was good, but they only used the Robbins choreography in the "You Gotta Get a Gimmick" number.

[txfilmfan]

J
Holden, Swithin, I thought the remake of West Side was decent. I missed the original Jerome Robbins dancing, and the new Tony was very bland, but Maria was well cast as was Anita, I was deeply touched by Rita Moreno getting the chance to sing "Somewhere", and it was the liveliest Spielberg directing job in some time.

Choreography is a problem these days. The lack of the Robbins choreography was a week link in the van Hove production as well. Robbins and Agnes de Mille get short changed these days. I saw a production of Gypsy in London a few years ago, starring Imelda Staunton. It was good, but they only used the Robbins choreography in the "You Gotta Get a Gimmick" number.

Somewhat understandably, new choreographers want to create their own stuff rather than recreate previous work. But many of these dances are now iconic, and many in the public come away disappointed with the new material. As an example, one of the biggest disappointments for me in the last 20 years was the sluggish Turkey Lurkey Time from the Promises, Promises revival.

[Lorna]

one of the biggest disappointments for me in the last 20 years was the sluggish Turkey Lurkey Time from the Promises, Promises revival.

[TikiSoo]

Remember the Night is a personal favorite. It is most likely the most underrated of Christmas films. It is so beautifully handled, and its always great to hear of people watching it and enjoying it.

This movie touched me especially - having had a similar relationship with my parents as Babs' charactor and as an adult discovering how other families are.

You are very lucky to have had the chance to see so many Broadway musicals, it seems like a very vivid artform, and it endures.

Boy was I jealous reading Bagel (& Swithin) get to see so many live performances on Broadway! For many of us, seeing a Production like that is a dream.

The Black Cauldron ended up being a crucial film for me. I disliked it the first time, but when I came back to it years later, I absolutely loved it, and my complete reassessment of it gave me the courage to get out of a bad situation in my life.

And that sums it up: Art Helps People.
That's art's function, why it's necessary. Art is the soul expressing itself to others who can see it, grasp it & realize they are not alone.
We ALL feel these emotions and can learn from other's experiences.

Don't worry about know-it-alls or about "consensus opinion", your own personal cinematic opinions are the ones that matter.

I am so happy for this sanctuary of free film speech! I am stillamazed at how the anonymity of the internet can bring out the worst in people who wouldn't dare behave like that to your face, proving themselves as true cowards.

Also Holden, no need to feel ashamed about how you feel or felt about the 50s; they are a decade that be slightly misleading at first.

I highly recommend the book THE BAD & THE BEAUTIFUL (ISBN 0-393-04321-5) It's all about Hollywood Films of the 50's and have an extra copy if you can't find one.

[Allhallowsday]

...AllHallows, That is likely the quintessential version of the Dickens saga, which says something because there have been so many versions and variations over the years of it.
...

There are only three other versions I find acceptable: the GEORGE C. SCOTT which is the 2nd best, the animated 1971 half hour which used the vocal talents of ALASTAIR SIM, and the ALBERT FINNEY musical which is another animal, yet remains interesting. That PATRICK STEWART version is like a ridiculous vanity project, SCROOGED is annoying, the 1938 Hollywood is so very corny and they sure did not need to embellish or lighten DICKENS. I only like GENE LOCKHART and his own family!

It's been many years since I saw The Homecoming, but it served as the introduction to The Waltons, which was a wonderful series. I think I heard once that Patricia Neal did not continue to the actual series because she was unsure that she had recovered enough from her strokes to take on the sprawling job of a weekly series...

THE HOMECOMING is a wonderful film, loaded with real actors' work. ELLEN CORBY and EDGAR BERGEN reunited as husband and wife 23 years after I REMEMBER MAMA ...
I grew up with that series, but I will say it lost its interest quickly (though certainly a success) and the change in parents, grandpa, and setting make the movie and series very different for me.

[BagelOnAPlate]

sorry, got a little sidetracked talking about THE DARKNESS.

Don't feel bad about getting into it with DOBBSEY, MR. INTERNATIONAL- he was a PRICKLY PEAR.

One thing I miss a lot about YE OLDE MESSAGEBOARDES were the genuinely insane people i got to witness at a safe distance, like THE MARIE OSMOND FAN GUY or THE GUY WHO WAS PISSED THEY NEVER PLAYED "HOT SPELL".

Yes, LHF, there indeed were some folks who posted at the old TCM message boards who appeared to suffer from advanced (possibly undiagnosed) psychological disorders.
And, yes, I'm glad that I was at a safe distance from those people.

Besides the ones you mentioned, there was the poster whose love/lust/obsession with the original WEST SIDE STORY seemed to be such an integral part of their soul that they went into slice and dice mode with anyone who deigned to critique his/her holy cinematic text.
And then when Steven Spielberg's new adaptation was announced and later released, the personal attacks that the poster flung at the young woman who was cast as Maria reached a level of vileness that was frightening.

At least the Marie Osmond fan's postings ultimately led to the wider dissemination of Ms. Osmond's cheesecake recipe.

That poster who was obsessed with the 1961 adaptation of West Side Story was un-well.

That person made it clear that they would not be seeing the Steven Spielberg adaptation, but that didn't stop them from making vicious comments about Rachel Zegler, who played Maria. They said she looked like corpse and sang like a frog. Yikes!

When I mentioned some problems I had with the 1961 movie, that person responded with “I don’t give a damn about what you have to say.”
I was, like, okay . . .

[BagelOnAPlate]

I miss movie theatres as well, but on my few times there in recent years, there were so few people there. The very last time I was there (in September), I nearly fell over when I found out that the price for a matinee ticket was $9. Having big audiences, which I remember from going to see kids films years ago, was always great because you got a genuine feel of what the movie was doing for a whole group of people and not just oneself.

What I like about going to movie theaters now is the ability to choose your seats when you buy your tickets.

[BagelOnAPlate]

I saw a production of Gypsy in London a few years ago, starring Imelda Staunton. It was good, but they only used the Robbins choreography in the "You Gotta Get a Gimmick" number.

I would have loved to have seen Imelda Staunton as Rose in the West End production Gypsy. I have the recording of the performance released by Shout! Factory, but it's not the same as seeing a live performance.

Watching her performance of "Rose's Turn," you really feel like you're witnessing Rose having a nervous breakdown.

[BagelOnAPlate]

From the 2016 Olivier Awards:

[CinemaInternational]

Remember the Night is a personal favorite. It is most likely the most underrated of Christmas films. It is so beautifully handled, and its always great to hear of people watching it and enjoying it.

This movie touched me especially - having had a similar relationship with my parents as Babs' charactor and as an adult discovering how other families are.

You are very lucky to have had the chance to see so many Broadway musicals, it seems like a very vivid artform, and it endures.

Boy was I jealous reading Bagel (& Swithin) get to see so many live performances on Broadway! For many of us, seeing a Production like that is a dream.

The Black Cauldron ended up being a crucial film for me. I disliked it the first time, but when I came back to it years later, I absolutely loved it, and my complete reassessment of it gave me the courage to get out of a bad situation in my life.

And that sums it up: Art Helps People.
That's art's function, why it's necessary. Art is the soul expressing itself to others who can see it, grasp it & realize they are not alone.
We ALL feel these emotions and can learn from other's experiences.

Don't worry about know-it-alls or about "consensus opinion", your own personal cinematic opinions are the ones that matter.

I am so happy for this sanctuary of free film speech! I am stillamazed at how the anonymity of the internet can bring out the worst in people who wouldn't dare behave like that to your face, proving themselves as true cowards.

Also Holden, no need to feel ashamed about how you feel or felt about the 50s; they are a decade that be slightly misleading at first.

I highly recommend the book THE BAD & THE BEAUTIFUL (ISBN 0-393-04321-5) It's all about Hollywood Films of the 50's and have an extra copy if you can't find one.

As for Remember the Night, one other point must be made: the film's director Mitchell Leisen is a very underrated director, likely in part due to many of his titles being hard to find. But in this one as well as in Hands Across the Table (1935), Easy Living (1937), Midnight (1939), The Lady is Willing and Take a Letter Darling (both 1942), To Each His Own (1946), and The Mating Season (1951), he emerges as a great director of actors, in getting the best parts of the personality of his stars. He should be better known.

I know what you mean. I've never been to Broadway, although it has long intrigued me and I have some books about it. The closest I came to such an experience was due to a theatre here in town that once or twice a year would bring in road companies of some musical. So, that way, I got to see Porgy and Bess and 42nd Street on stage. Might not be Broadway, but it will do nicely. (A few years back, they brought a bona fide Broadway star, Bernadette Peters to town to do an intimate concert. I wish I could have gone but the tickets were far too expensive. If I had met her, I probably would have told her just how great she was in that heartbreaking role in the exceedingly dark and haunting 1981 film Pennies from Heaven. That film definitely wasn't for everyone, or even most people, but her performance is one of the best and most unheralded of the 1980s)

Yes, movies can occasionally help enrich life, the good ones at least. It may sound strange but I was and still am rather a lonely individual, and the stars of movies ended up feeling like old, trusted friends. Catching up with them in another film new to me sometimes felt like catching up with an old friend I hadn't seen in a while....

The internet is a strange thing. Sometimes people do behave badly with anonymity, but sometimes others simply behave badly even when their real name and picture are right there (Facebook is such a risky and occasionally soul-crushing place, and I have found out that I don't have much in common with most of those in my generational peer group. I simply don't have any enthusiasm for nearly all new releases, and many don't seem interested in classics of the past.). This community does stand out for being the kindest on the web. The people here genuinely care for one another, and we look our for one another. (Plus, we don't feel the need to use all these bizarre slang terms and abbreviations that are very cryptic). I am grateful we have it. It helps to make life more comforting, especially after such a rough year.

Thank you for the book reccomendation! I will have to look into it as it sounds wonderful. My favorite movie books were those big coffee table books they did from the late 70s through the mid 80s detailing the films of all the major studios (one for MGM, one for Warner, etc.) It was so great to see the photos and brief writeups of all the films, and they serve as a great reference material that is cozier and more illuminating than a Wikipedia list. They are now all decades out of date, but they are great resources to find out about lesser-known films of the classic era since they are given equal footing to the films every one of us here remember.

[Swithin]

I saw a production of Gypsy in London a few years ago, starring Imelda Staunton. It was good, but they only used the Robbins choreography in the "You Gotta Get a Gimmick" number.

I would have loved to have seen Imelda Staunton as Rose in the West End production Gypsy. I have the recording of the performance released by Shout! Factory, but it's not the same as seeing a live performance.

Watching her performance of "Rose's Turn," you really feel like you're witnessing Rose having a nervous breakdown.

The thing that distinguished Staunton's interpretation was that her Rose was really on the edge of madness. (Btw, Staunton is going to do Dolly in 2024.) The most memorable Staunton moment for me was her rendition of "The Boulevard of Broken Dreams" in the Royal Shakespeare Company's production of They Shoot Horses, Don't They? in 1987. The following year I saw her as Sonia in Uncle Vanya with Michael Gambon and Jonathan Pryce. More recently, in addition to Gypsy, I saw her as Sally in Follies and as Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?'

Here she is, singing "Losing My Mind" in Follies (2017):

[TikiSoo]

AMAZING.I just lurve the "broad-ness" of the acting & singing, it's so physical.
Is she really singing that strongly? Or are there hidden microphones?
Thank gawd they aren't using those face strap mics.


My former business partner took pity on me and when we had to be in NYC for business, he took me to see Cats! which was still new & popular at the time. I was incredibly disappointed at how "small" & ugly it was, I expected Broadway to be BIG, BRIGHT, BEAUTIFUL! I know the success of Cats! was the intimacy of the actors in the audience, but it just creeped me out.

Next time he took me to see Phantom Of The Opera. I hated it but marveled at the sets & costumes at least. I realized he enjoyed more Disney World Cruise kind of entertainment, nothing wrong with that, just not my taste.

Next time I'm in NYC, think I should see The Rockettes first and then just make a random choice of whatever's available that I can afford.
Something more adventurous -

[HoldenIsHere]

Holden, Swithin, I thought the remake of West Side was decent. I missed the original Jerome Robbins dancing, and the new Tony was very bland, but Maria was well cast as was Anita, I was deeply touched by Rita Moreno getting the chance to sing "Somewhere", and it was the liveliest Spielberg directing job in some time.

Rita Moreno's rendition of "Somewhere" was one of the highlights of the movie, and there were a lot of highlights.
The addition of her character to the story (as Doc's widow) was a nice touch by Tony Kuschner.
The part at the end where she goes to Chino and then walks with him and waits with him until the police arrive was incredibly moving.

Tony Kuschner's screenplay and dialogue took the story to a higher level (sorry, Arthur Laurents).
The fleshing out of Tony's backstory in the sequence at the Met Cloisters where he tells Maria about his turmoil over almost killing "this messed up kid that wasn't no different than me" was so powerful.
We will have to agree to disagree about Ansel Elgort as Tony. To me, he was the opposite of bland, giving a magnetic and subtle performance. He is also a good singer
Mike Faist's performance as Riff was mesmerizing.

The presentation of the "Gee, Officer Krupke" number was one of the few times that getting through that part was not a chore.
I've actually re-watched that scene from Spielberg's movie multiple tines!