Did The Saint influence Bond

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stuart.uk
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Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:25 pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland

Did The Saint influence Bond

Post by stuart.uk »

While many rate Dr. No-1962 and From Russia With Love-1963 two of the great Bond movies, others will say the Goldfinger was the first big box office hit of the franchise.

It's been said Goldfinger was the first to show Bond with a sense of humour and with a series of throw a way lines. If that's true, did they get inspiration from The Saint where Roger Moore had been showing these traits for two yrs beforehand.

Talking of which what about other influences on Bond. This is just IMO

Live And Let Die-Shaft
The Man With The Golden Gun-Kung Fu
The Spy Who Loved Me-Jaws
Moonraker-Star Wars
Octupussy-Raiders Of The Lost Ark
Was Tomorrow Never Dies based on the alleged accusation that William Randolph Hearst started the Cuban War to publisise his newspaper.
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Gagman 66
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Post by Gagman 66 »

:( Well, It's not a movie franchise, although it definitely should be, but Lester Dent's DOC SAVAGE Pulp's of the 30's, and 40's were as big an influence on Bond as anything. Doc had all of James gadget's way before Bond did. And what's more Doc invented all of them himself. Bond didn't invent His own Gizmo's in Ian Fleming's books!

:roll: Doc was also a heavy influence on SUPERMAN. I mean, they even had the same first name! Clark Savage Junior/Clark Kent. Supe's also stole the name THE MAN OF STEEL from Doc's THE MAN OF BRONZE. Not to mention "THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE" they never even changed the name or the location. BATMAN meantime took all of Doc's gadget's and fancy vehicles! And Doc was a master of stealth, and the original "MAN OF TOMORROW" The character of Lex Luthor was based on the great Doc villain "John Sunlight". Heck there would be no SUPERMAN or BATMAN, without DOC SAVAGE!
stuart.uk
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Post by stuart.uk »

I liked Ron Ely's tv movie of Doc Savage Man Of Bronze. It was I believe a pilot for a tv series, but it wasn't successful, so the idea was scrapped
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Gagman 66
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Post by Gagman 66 »

stuart.uk,

:o DOC SAVAGE; THE MAN OF BRONZE was not a TV Movie. True it was used as a series pilot in 1976, or 1977 by NBC. However, it was released to theaters by Warner Brothers in 1975, I loved the movie when it first came out, and still think it gets a bad rap. However, much of the key elements were severely flawed. The story takes place much to late,. The events of the first published Doc Savage story THE MAN OF BRONZE in early 1933, take place in 1931. The movie is set in 1936, this is important for a number of reasons that I will not go into.

:) Here are many of my thoughts on DOC SAVAGE from another forum a couple years back. They make for interesting reading, Everyone agreed with me that Hollywood has seriously missed the boat on what could be and should have been a major, major franchise!:

As Professor William Harper Little John would say, “Well I’ll Be Super Amalgamated!” “Holy Cow!” To quote Colonel John Renwick, was I ever happy to see this post! DOC SAVAGE is the greatest adventure hero of all time, period! In-fact, along with Maxwell Grant's (Walter Gibson) THE SHADOW, these two extraordinary characters inspired the entire super-hero genre that was to come! They are directly responsible for it!

Simply put with out "THE MAN OF BRONZE", DOCTOR CLARK SAVAGE JUNIOR, there would have been no "MAN OF STEEL" SUPERMAN (Clark Kent), since Doc himself was the original Superman! Somehow years later, Superman seemingly moved right into Doc's "FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE!" There would have been no BATMAN either, since Batman is essentially a amalgamation of Doc Savage and The Shadow!

Years after the fact, Ian Fleming's James Bond blatantly stolen all of Doc's gadgets and took credit for them! What a jerk! Benjamin J. Grimm’s “THE THING” of Fantastic Four fame, also finds his true origin’s in Lieutenant Colonel Andrew Blodgget “Monk” Mayfair from among Doc’s aids! As do his frequent quarrels with partner Johnny Storm, echo Monk’s habitually "stormy" relationship with worst enemy/best friend crack Harvard Lawyer General Theodore Marley “Ham”Brooks! Again even INDIAN JONES is heavily influenced by the world of Doc Savage!

Unfortunately, HOLLYWOOD has failed "The Bronze Knight Of The Running Board" and his equally worthy Fabulous Five. If you ask me, there should have been literally dozens of Movies and TV shows based on Doc Savage over the years! He is the most influential and heavily ripped off literary character ever created, but that character himself and his fantastic adventures has been sadly ignored!

Not that plans were not made. TV's popular "Riflemen" Lucus McCain (Chuck Conners), was supposed to be the first big screen Doc way back in 1966. This never happened as the Quinn-Martin production of "THE THOUSAND HEADED MAN", was cancelled. Then in 1968 Quinn- Martin obtained the rights to produce a DOC SAVAGE weekly Television series. That idea also fell through.

In 1970, ITC International had a plan for a future Doc syndicated show. That changed in 1971, while several studios were bidding for the rights to make a feature film, producer George Pal was granted the exclusive rights to produce a series of motion pictures based on the Savage novels.

Eventually, TV's former Tarzan 6' 5' 230 lbs. RON ELY was chosen for the part. Pal set out to film DEATH IN SILVER in 1972, and was well into production of the picture as a serious minded adventure, when for some unclear reason he decided to scrap it and make THE MAN OF BRONZE first? After the opening few sequences, someone (I have forgotten who it was) who had a vested interest in the production demanded that the remainder of the picture be more light hearted, and humorous fair, and somehow proceeded to turn a very promising production into something that more or less resembled TV's 1960's BATMAN! This was his intention apparently. Warner Brother's after delaying release for some half a year, in 1975 stupidly killed the picture at the box office by demanding it be re-edited (it was cut by nearly an hour!) cutting some good action sequences, and released it with a very unexpected G-rating!

The film was very loosely based on the first Doc Savage story THE MAN OF BRONZE published in February 1933, and contained some minor and a few major incongruities! Even as a kid I recognized that Doc's Bronze helicopter should have been an Auto-Gyro! The date of the story was way off too! Firstly, the film takes place in 1936. That's much to late for this adventure to take place! The literary tale takes place in 1931! Doc's hair was supposed to be bronze slightly darker than his skin, not blonde! His eye's Gold-Flecked, not Blue! Never the less, Ely feature wise bore a staggering resemblance to way Doc looked on the covers of the Street and Smith pulps of the 1930's! My major quips with the picture were Major Thomas J. "Long Tom" Roberts dark hair, which should have been blonde, and the made up name of the lost Indian tribe Doc's father discovered in the dense Central American Jungle! I knew that they had to be Mayans, because Doc and his fab five often communicated with each other using ancient Mayan! This way the villains never had a clue what they were saying to each other! That was disappointing!

None the less, as a wide eyed nine year old, I still loved DOC SAVAGE THE MAN OF BRONZE when I first saw it! Probably the first movie I ever attended for repeat showings! To my knowledge This movie has not been released on DVD so far? I for one would certainly buy it if it were! Somewhere hidden away in the Warner Brother’s vault is ton’s of discarded footage from DEATH IN SILVER, and what a great DVD extra this would make! I still like the film as pure entertainment, and to some extent I feel it has gotten a bad rap. It has managed to emerge as something of a minor cult classic today, which I think is great! Some have dismissed it as pure camp, which I disagree with! It still has it’s merits! Not the least of which is this is the only theatrical version of Doc Savage that has ever been released over the years! Therefor it is must viewing for any Savage fan!

DOC was already my hero, even at nine! I knew him from the paperbacks, and the Marvel comics black and white series. (I actually had seen a number of the original pulps as well!) My friends and I never imagined for a second the film would flop! We couldn't wait for the planned sequel DOC SAVAGE: ARCH ENEMY OF EVIL! It was expected to be based on the Dent novel “SECRET IN THE SKY” and according to George Pal would have contained allot of the unused footage from both the productions of DEATH IN SILVER and THE MAN OF BRONZE! Regrettably, it never was made! Though Pal was determined to make another Doc Savage picture in 1979! Unfortunately, he died in early 1980, before that project could get off the ground! NBC had aired THE MAN OF BRONZE as a possible series pilot in 1977.

There have been several other plans since the 70's to bring Doc back to the big and small screens including in animated form! Not the least of which was the glaring exclusion of Doc, Monk and Ham from the 1991 production of Dave Stevens THE ROCKETEER! Who did you think designed that Rocket pack anyway? Why "The Man of Bronze" of course! Read the books and there all in their!

Other than a short lived and very well done Radio program in 1985, nothing has to date, ever come of the rest! There have been several different comic adapations since then, published by several companies. Even new Savage novels! At present though Doc is about as low profile as you can get! What a shame! Most recently CASTLE ROCK ENTERTAINMENT it appears canceled it's plans for a big budget DOC SAVAGE feature! When will the original super-hero, and the most sadly neglected major fictional character ever created finally receive his proper respect and just due in the movies? I hope it still happens one day!

"Let us strive every moment of our lives to make ourselves better, and better, to the best of our ability. So that all may profit by it. Let us think of the right, and lend our assistance to all who may need it. With no regard for anything but justice! Let us take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage. Let us be considerate of our country, our fellow citizens, and of our associates in everything that we say and do. Let us do right to all, and wrong no man.” The Doc Savage Oath ( March, 1933)

Ktrek,

I have audio CD’s of all the episodes from the FEAR CAY and THE THOUSAND HEADED MAN radio broadcast’s. I do not have any of the others. I felt these were both very good. I was anxious to hear more of them. If you have them, boy would I be interested! Incidentally, this was not the first Doc Savage radio program, as there were two others back in the 1930's and ‘40's! I have not heard any of the originals! Surely at least some of them must still exist?

Another interesting foot note is Columbia pictures showed some interest in producing a Doc Savage adventure serial in the late 1930's! Easy to understand why it didn't happen. Afterall, how could Doc possibly be "The Man Of Bronze" in black and white? Wouldn't it have been great if the series had materialized?

Yes, the James Bama paintings were very striking, and impressive! Unfortunately, Bama forever altered the perception of what Doc was supposed to look like. He added the Widow’s peak, and the older harsher appearance that has become part of the Doc Savage tradition. This is far from the way Doc was depicted in the pulp illustrations.

Doc was very handsome youthful in appearance, with dimples, and had a comparatively conventional hair style on the often equally impressive Street and Smith covers! I can’t for the life of me recall an artist’s name at the moment?). I’ve always resented the fact that brilliant as they were Bama’s painting's presented Doc's features so differently! I never cared much for the “widows peak”, and I still don’t, to this day! Also bare in mind, that Doc along with his cousin Patricia, and his five famous assistants, were taking the here to fore unknown medicinal herb, from FEAR CAY, that prolonged youth, and thus were ageing much slower than ordinary mortals were! So Doc definitely would not have look so old as he did, on the first Bama cover, and many of the others that were to follow!

I neglected to mention that another note worthy error in the 1975 movie version of DOC SAVAGE: THE MAN OF BRONZE, concerned Doc’s secret “Crime College” in up state New York! This was a hidden institution were Doc engaged in brain surgery techniques that he himself developed, and rehabilitated harden criminals. In the movie though, there is a big flag waving and bronze letters at the front gates proclaiming it as the DOC SAVAGE REHABILITATION CENTER! Now this would never be the case, since in the original stories, the college was not even known, (for good reason) to the authorities! Worse still, the decision was made to depict "The Chrysler Building", rather than the 86th floor of what was clearly defined by Lester Dent as "The Empire State", as Doc's headquarters! Long time Doc fans balked at this!

The amazing biography DOC SAVAGE: HIS APOCALYPTIC LIFE, by Phillip Jose’ Farmer first published in 1972, is still the definitive biography on Doc and his crew. However, it is not the only one, more recently another book was published called THE BRONZE AGE (in believe in 1991?) Unfortunately, I have never run across a copy, and don’t have the publisher, or the authors name handy.
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