JAPANESE MOVIES - ANY OTHER FANS ?

[charliechaplinfan]

I can't remember if we've ever discussed Japanese language films. I know on other threads we have touched on European films. Every so often I get to see a Japanese film and to watch one is a real experience. The directors I'm most fimiliar with are Ozu, Mizoguchi, Naruse and Kurosawa. Kurosawa is probably the most well known of all the directors and his films are spectacular but what I really like is the gentleness of the tales of everyday life or the harking back to the Japanese world within the fuedal system.

I just wonder if I'm the only fan here.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I am a huge fan. Here's an old Tokyo Story essay I did that probably needs revision badly:

http://silverscreenoasis.com/oasis/viewtopic.php?t=974

A short list of favorites would include:

GATE OF HELL 1953
STRAY DOG 1948
TOKYO STORY 1953
CRAZED FRUIT 1956
HIGH AND LOW 1963
RED BEARD 1965
PORCO ROSSO 1992
TOKYO DRIFTER 1966
THE FACE OF ANOTHER 1966
NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND 1984
DRUNKEN ANGEL 1948
DREAMS 1990
GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES 1988
IKIRU 1952
LATE SPRING 1949
WHEN A WOMAN ASCENDS THE STAIRS 1960
UGETSU 1953
VENGEANCE IS MINE 1979
KWAIDAN 1964
YOJIMBO 1961
THRONE OF BLOOD 1957
FLOATING WEEDS 1959
JIGOKU 1960
THE BURMESE HARP 1956
FIRES ON THE PLAIN 1959
SANSHO THE BAILIFF 1954
RAN 1985
NO REGRETS FOR OUR YOUTH (1946)
DOUBLE SUICIDE (1969)

[myrnaloyisdope]

Well for the past year or so I've been working on finishing this list of the 1000 greatest films, so I've become pretty well acquainted with the big 3 (Ozu, Mizoguchi, Kurosawa), and some other highlights of Japanese cinema.

As for what I've like best well Ikiru is my favorite Kurosawa, though I really like Ran and Seven Samurai too. The tough to find Story of the Late Chrysanthemums is the best Mizoguchi I've seen, and for Ozu well Tokyo Story is the place to start, though End of Summer might be my favorite.

I haven't seen much Naruse, only a couple films, so I can't rightly give an informed opinion, other than to say I was underwhelmed, but I would like to see more.

If you have a chance Seijun Suzuki's films are worth checking out, I like Tokyo Drifter quite a bit. He was basically a B-Movie director who filled his movies with sometimes bizarre touches much to the disdain of his financiers.

For modern directors I only really know Takeshi Kitano's work, but I'm a huge fan. Kids Return is among my all-time favorite films, a devastating ode to the perils of becoming an adult. Second Sight just released a boxset of 8 of his films in the UK. At some point I'll be picking it up.

Oh and for something obscure, you should check out Josef von Sternberg's final film (Saga of) Anatahan, which was filmed in Japan, and features all Japanese actors, with English narration. A very cool and little seen film.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I did tighten it up a bit. Sorry, I guess I'm just a perfectionist who is always unhappy with what I do.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I haven't seen much Naruse, only a couple films, so I can't rightly give an informed opinion, other than to say I was underwhelmed, but I would like to see more.

I really like what I have seen by him (Floating Clouds, A Wife's Heart, When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, Wife), the problem is so much of his work is not available in the U.S.. As for the quality, I think he is one of the greatest directors I've seen when it comes to respectful portrayals of female characters. He not only sees their point of view, but has understanding of it as well. My wife confirmed this, so it must be true.

[charliechaplinfan]

Firstly I'm really pleased I'm not the only fan. I started viewing them as I got interested in foreign cinema. I've discovered them very haphazardly, renting what becomes avaliable.

Myrnaloy, I love Ikiru, my husband who does like Kurosawa prefers the historical, battle driven stories but I've always preferred the gentleness and the poignancy of Ikiru. I also like the lead actor a lot, he crops up in so many films in this period.

You mentioned The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums I hope this gets released here next year, it's very near the top of my wish list.

I'll keep a watch out for the other directors you've suggested too.

Mr Arkadin, I've only seen Sound of the Mountain, Flowing and Repast by Naruse and I agree with your wife, he tells the stories from a female's perspective so well, so sensitivily, those films are like watching a poem, the fluidity and beauty in the often simple stories, Ozu too is like this but I slightly prefer Naruse. I just hope there are plans to release more of his work over here.

I can see too that I have things to learn from your list. I've watched many of the titles but some I've never even heard of. My daughter of 6 loves Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle by Miyazaki, I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen them yet.

I've been renting a Mizoguchi box set, it's so good. I've seen Ugetsu Monogatari, Uwasa no Onna, Chikamatsu Mongatari, I still have Sansho the Baliff and Gion Bayashi to watch. I'm absolutely loving them.

I think more than any other group of films, I'm completely transported to another world when I watch them.

Lastly your review on Tokyo Story is great. It gives a true feel for the film. A book I borrowed from the library a while back named Tokyo Story as the best film ever made, it evn beat Singin in the Rain

[Mr. Arkadin]

Mr Arkadin, I've only seen Sound of the Mountain, Flowing and Repast by Naruse and I agree with your wife, he tells the stories from a female's perspective so well, so sensitivily, those films are like watching a poem, the fluidity and beauty in the often simple stories, Ozu too is like this but I slightly prefer Naruse. I just hope there are plans to release more of his work over here.

I can see too that I have things to learn from your list. I've watched many of the titles but some I've never even heard of. My daughter of 6 loves Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle by Miyazaki, I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen them yet.

I've been renting a Mizoguchi box set, it's so good. I've seen Ugetsu Monogatari, Uwasa no Onna, Chikamatsu Mongatari, I still have Sansho the Baliff and Gion Bayashi to watch. I'm absolutely loving them.

I think more than any other group of films, I'm completely transported to another world when I watch them.

Lastly your review on Tokyo Story is great. It gives a true feel for the film. A book I borrowed from the library a while back named Tokyo Story as the best film ever made, it evn beat Singin in the Rain

I'm glad to find others who love these films as well. Actually, I'm not really a person who is a fan of certain countries or genres. My favorite kinds of films are ones that explore human nature.

It's great to know your daughter loves Anime. It's a very interesting film form. If you haven't seen any of them yet, I would hold off on the two movies you have mentioned and view Grave of the Fireflies (1988) as your first film. It's a very serious and touching movie and not for children (nothing sexual). If you like this film, you might check out some of the others. Porco Rosso (1992) would be a great one to watch with your kids. This one is often termed The Anime Casablanca and you can definitely see the connection upon viewing. If you want to investigate a series, Wolf's Rain is one I reccomend.

Mizoguchi's work is incredible and he's known as one of "The Big Three" of Japanese film (Ozu and Kurosawa being the other two). If you have a Region free DVD player, you might check out the Criterion site as they have released much of his work here in the States:

http://tinyurl.com/5us4k6

Finally, thank you for the nice words about my essay.

[charliechaplinfan]

I will make sure I view Grave of the Fireflies first. We do have it, my husband is keen and I don't think my daughter has seen it yet. Just what I need for a rainy winter afternoon. (My daughter is completely unmoved by the High School Musical craze, perferring Anime, a girl to be proud of )

I've followed your link, there is a fantastic looking box set that is available called Mizoguchi's Fallen Women, I just wish it was available as seperate discs ,that way t can be imported without paying duty, this set looks too good to miss. It will be on my Christmas list, something to look forward too.

Last night I watched Sansho the Baliff, partly Dickensian, completely gripping and wonderfully told. I didn't expect the twist that the tale took quite early on. This is on my list of truly great films or films to see before you die, you just have to.

[Mr. Arkadin]

Sounds great. Incidentally, Grave and Porco both have excellent English dubs if you are so inclined. I'm usually a stickler for subtitles, but Miyazaki himself said the French version of Porco was much better than the original Japanese. I think that the English version (which came later) is superior to both.

[charliechaplinfan]

Normally when watching world cinema I read subtitles, I like to hear the language as it is spoken I'm not a big fan of dubbing but my daughter's reading isn't that good and there are some big names like Lauren Bacall and Billy Crystal dubbing the characters.

[charliechaplinfan]

I've been watching a couple more Japanese films. I left a review on the What Have You Watched Lately thread.

I did rent (following a recommendation on the Japanese thread) Tokyo Drifter, quite a lot more modern than I usually watch. It has a very definite 60's theme to it, the colours are very vivid. One of the strongest things about this film wasthe use of the theme tune running through the film. I think it might have been used in Kill Bill. In fact the film reminded me of a cross between Kill Bill and the early Bonds. It was an interesting experience.

An extremely moving experience was Akasen Chitai the last film that Mizoguchi directed. It is extraordinary, I love tales about the Japanese way of life. I've watched a few revolving around Geisha houses but this one was about a whorehouse, it didn't have the pretence of being a Geisha house. All the prostitutes had a different tale and a different reason for becoming a prostitute, some had been sold into the business, one was in it because she had been widowed, another was married to an invalid and had a small child. They seem to live a hand to mout existence, frequently being subbed by their employer. A thread running through the story is a bill getting passed through parliament to outlaw prostitution, thi is the 3rd time of going through, it doesn't get passed. Who would look after these girls if it did? Prostitution is treated very differently in Japan of the 1950's. It's extremely poignant, it poses many questions but gives few definite answers. What would the girls do in a society that has no employment or social care for these people?

MikeBSG reviewed Rhapsody in August, that might be one to look out for.

[Dawtrina]

Konnichiwa! Yes, this is a very welcome thread. Japanese cinema is a fascinating thing, and there's much to recommend from other east Asian countries nowadays too.

Mr Arkadin's list is a solid one from what my viewing can back up, though I've only seen half of the films on it. It certainly includes well known classics and obscure gems.

I never quite got the appeal of Throne of Blood, the only Kurosawa that I haven't been amazed by. I'd add The Bad Sleep Well to the list, plus of course more obvious titles like The Seven Samurai and Rashomon. And talking of Rashomon, I was happy to see Gate of Hell and Ugetsu on the list. Anything with Machiko Kyo is likely to be worth seeing.

The only thing anyone can agree on about Hayao Miyazaki is that he is a truly astounding filmmaker and that in his field he is unsurpassed. However every fan has a different favourite from his films and a good argument can be made for each of them. To me it's Spirited Away and Castle in the Sky, but every single one of his films is highly recommended.

It's a very traditional list though, however good it is. There's a lot more to Japanese cinema than the old masters and Miyazaki. There are new masters too and many genres that can't be ignored: kaiju, chambara, anime, pinky violence, J-Horror, yakuza films and the truly bizarre, lots of truly bizarre stuff. There are films made in Japan unlike anything you've seen before and while not everything is great, there's so much that's truly unique and fascinating. Dip into modern Japanese film and almost everything you see in the west is going to seem pedestrian.

Kaiju are monster movies: Godzilla and his buddies. It's easy to look down on these because many are terrible and almost always seen in mangled versions dubbed by bad and often intentionally hilarious voice actors. However there's a lot of depth especially in the early films and the actors often tend to include people you wouldn't expect to see.

In America, classic actors who appeared in B-movie horror did so because their careers had descended to that level, but in Japan classic actors saw films as films. CharlieChaplinFan talks about Ikiru and its lead actor: well, that's Takashi Shimura who was a kaiju regular as well as appearing in more Kurosawa films than Toshiro Mifune. In 1954 he made both The Seven Samurai and Godzilla; in 1961 both Yojimbo and Mothra; in 1964 both Kwaidan and Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster.

Chambara are swordplay movies and most of the greatest in the world were made in Japan. Obviously work through the expected classics but I'd highly recommend less known classics like Samurai Rebellion or Kill!, and don't ignore the Zatoichi films or the Lone Wolf and Cub series. I recently recorded the Hanzo the Razor trilogy off IFC, which star Shintaro Katsu who played Zatoichi so memorably. IFC show many classic Japanese chambara, usually on Saturday mornings.

Yakuza films are everywhere and they're of highly variable quality, but there are many classics. I haven't got through the whole Yakuza Papers series yet but it's regarded as the Japanese Godfather for a reason, not least its beginnings in 1973. There are five films in the original series, then four further films. The yakuza are popular in modern Japan too and people like Takeshi Kitano and Takashi Miike have made many notable yakuza films.

J-Horror is modern Japanese horror and it has influenced western horror to such a degree that almost everything here nowadays is a remake of an Asian original. Successful western remakes of J-Horror films like Ring and The Grudge were only the beginning to the trend that led to The Departed being the first remake of an Asian film to win the Best Picture Oscar (the original, Infernal Affairs, is better). The originals of films like JSA: Joint Security Area, The Eye and One Missed Call are all highly recommended.

And then there's the truly bizarre. I saw Tokyo Gore Police at a festival recently and while it's a terrible film it's certainly a ride unlike anything that would ever be made in the west, pushing light years beyond its origins in Paul Verhoeven's science fiction. Some of my favourite films of recent years are bizarre or offbeat Japanese or other Asian films: Sympathy for Mr Vengeance, Sukiyaki Western Django, The Great Yokai War, Save the Green Planet!, 6ixtynin9, Memories of Murder, Survive Style 5+...

Survive Style 5+ is an amazing film, not least because of the presence of Tadanobu Asano who has become one of my favourite actors of the present day. He's like an Oriental Johnny Depp, both for his choice of strange and unusual roles and for his talent. His biggest film in the west is probably Mongol, up for this year's foreign film Oscar, in which he plays Genghis Khan, but I loved his work in Shark Skin Man and Peach Hip Girl, Ichi the Killer and Last Life in the Universe, among many others.

Look out for Japanese directors like Takashi Miike, Shinya Tsukamoto and Takeshi Kitano. From other Asian countries, seek out people like Kim Ki-duk, Pen-ek Ratanaruang, Chan-wook Park, Wong Kar Wai...

I'll shut up now.

[charliechaplinfan]

Dawtrina, you have added to my education, thank you. I'll be looking at exploring more genres.

It made me smile when you mentioned the bizarre stuff. I rented In the Realm of the Senses extremely bizarre and very definitely an 18 certificate

[Mr. Arkadin]

Konnichiwa! Yes, this is a very welcome thread. Japanese cinema is a fascinating thing, and there's much to recommend from other east Asian countries nowadays too.

Mr Arkadin's list is a solid one from what my viewing can back up, though I've only seen half of the films on it. It certainly includes well known classics and obscure gems.

I never quite got the appeal of Throne of Blood, the only Kurosawa that I haven't been amazed by. I'd add The Bad Sleep Well to the list, plus of course more obvious titles like The Seven Samurai and Rashomon. And talking of Rashomon, I was happy to see Gate of Hell and Ugetsu on the list. Anything with Machiko Kyo is likely to be worth seeing.

The only thing anyone can agree on about Hayao Miyazaki is that he is a truly astounding filmmaker and that in his field he is unsurpassed. However every fan has a different favourite from his films and a good argument can be made for each of them. To me it's Spirited Away and Castle in the Sky, but every single one of his films is highly recommended.

It's a very traditional list though, however good it is. There's a lot more to Japanese cinema than the old masters and Miyazaki. There are new masters too and many genres that can't be ignored: kaiju, chambara, anime, pinky violence, J-Horror, yakuza films and the truly bizarre, lots of truly bizarre stuff. There are films made in Japan unlike anything you've seen before and while not everything is great, there's so much that's truly unique and fascinating. Dip into modern Japanese film and almost everything you see in the west is going to seem pedestrian.

Kaiju are monster movies: Godzilla and his buddies. It's easy to look down on these because many are terrible and almost always seen in mangled versions dubbed by bad and often intentionally hilarious voice actors. However there's a lot of depth especially in the early films and the actors often tend to include people you wouldn't expect to see.

In America, classic actors who appeared in B-movie horror did so because their careers had descended to that level, but in Japan classic actors saw films as films. CharlieChaplinFan talks about Ikiru and its lead actor: well, that's Takashi Shimura who was a kaiju regular as well as appearing in more Kurosawa films than Toshiro Mifune. In 1954 he made both The Seven Samurai and Godzilla; in 1961 both Yojimbo and Mothra; in 1964 both Kwaidan and Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster.

Chambara are swordplay movies and most of the greatest in the world were made in Japan. Obviously work through the expected classics but I'd highly recommend less known classics like Samurai Rebellion or Kill!, and don't ignore the Zatoichi films or the Lone Wolf and Cub series. I recently recorded the Hanzo the Razor trilogy off IFC, which star Shintaro Katsu who played Zatoichi so memorably. IFC show many classic Japanese chambara, usually on Saturday mornings.

Yakuza films are everywhere and they're of highly variable quality, but there are many classics. I haven't got through the whole Yakuza Papers series yet but it's regarded as the Japanese Godfather for a reason, not least its beginnings in 1973. There are five films in the original series, then four further films. The yakuza are popular in modern Japan too and people like Takeshi Kitano and Takashi Miike have made many notable yakuza films.

J-Horror is modern Japanese horror and it has influenced western horror to such a degree that almost everything here nowadays is a remake of an Asian original. Successful western remakes of J-Horror films like Ring and The Grudge were only the beginning to the trend that led to The Departed being the first remake of an Asian film to win the Best Picture Oscar (the original, Infernal Affairs, is better). The originals of films like JSA: Joint Security Area, The Eye and One Missed Call are all highly recommended.

And then there's the truly bizarre. I saw Tokyo Gore Police at a festival recently and while it's a terrible film it's certainly a ride unlike anything that would ever be made in the west, pushing light years beyond its origins in Paul Verhoeven's science fiction. Some of my favourite films of recent years are bizarre or offbeat Japanese or other Asian films: Sympathy for Mr Vengeance, Sukiyaki Western Django, The Great Yokai War, Save the Green Planet!, 6ixtynin9, Memories of Murder, Survive Style 5+...

Survive Style 5+ is an amazing film, not least because of the presence of Tadanobu Asano who has become one of my favourite actors of the present day. He's like an Oriental Johnny Depp, both for his choice of strange and unusual roles and for his talent. His biggest film in the west is probably Mongol, up for this year's foreign film Oscar, in which he plays Genghis Khan, but I loved his work in Shark Skin Man and Peach Hip Girl, Ichi the Killer and Last Life in the Universe, among many others.

Look out for Japanese directors like Takashi Miike, Shinya Tsukamoto and Takeshi Kitano. From other Asian countries, seek out people like Kim Ki-duk, Pen-ek Ratanaruang, Chan-wook Park, Wong Kar Wai...

I'll shut up now.

Glad to see another fan of Gate of Hell. It's one of my all time favorites and unfortunately OOP. It also needs a major restoration as the Eastman color stock has faded badly. I keep hoping Criterion will take on the job, but no word so far.

The Bad Sleep Well is indeed an excellent film, one I forgot to mention. Also, Criterion has released a collection of Ozu's silents that I very much reccomend.

Good call on the Yakuza genre as well. While there are many I like, probably a good starter would be Graveyard of Honour (1975).

I agree that we should look at Asian film in general not just Japanese. China and Hong Kong have some astounding masters that don't get enough press here (much less play on TCM). I love Yimou's films with Gong Li, particularly Red Sorghum (1988), Ju Dou (1990), Raise the Red Lantern (1991), To Live (1994), and Shanghai Triad (1995). Kar Wai as you noted, is another director whose work is inspiring . His Fallen Angels (1995) is a must see.

[charliechaplinfan]

It's fine by me to expand this thread to Asain films, I feel I have a lot to learn. Many of the films you mentioned directed by Yimou Zhang have never had a DVD release here which is a pity because I would love to see them.

A film I loved was In The Mood For Love I like Maggie Cheung, she was brilliant in Hero too.

I do find it difficult to recognise some of the actors and actresses from Japanese films. I am getting better at it. A couple of my favorites are Machiko Kyo who is in Ugetsu Monogatari, Akasen Chitai and Yokihi and Kinuyo Tanaka who is in Ugetsu Monogatari, Sansho Dayo and Uwasa No Onna