Westerns

[charliechaplinfan]

Thanks Chris, once I start the book I will do. I started the Howard Hawks book last night, I'm more fimiliar with his work. I'll get around to John Ford though, hopefully soon.

[MissGoddess]

WARLOCK
directed by Edward Dmytryk
starring: Henry Fonda, Anthony Quinn, Richard Widmark, Dorothy Malone

This is one of the weirdest westerns I have ever seen. I don't quite get it. Is it
supposed to be a parody, I wonder? If so, then maybe it makes more sense. It
is quite entertaining and the DVD I watched features a pristine transfer (in Cinemascope).

I'm not sure I can even explain what I find so strange about it---it feels like a
parody of all the stock western cliche's of plot and character, but then it may
just be that the director wanted to pitch it at a somewhat operatic key, a la
Sam Fuller or Anthony Mann's The Furies. But those movies made sense, at least.

It's rather interesting I must admit, to be left wondering and to have the movie
take turns and developments I never expected. Fonda's character, Clay Blaisedell,
kind of sets it up when, near the beginning, he says "People start out feeling one
way about me and end up feeling another. Things change." In this movie, they sure do.

Can anyone explain the movie for me, perhaps? What was the director trying to
say? It reminded me in some ways of High Noon and Rio Bravo, but also of The Man
with the Gun (Robert Mitchum). But it's not like any of those, it almost seems to
parody them.

By the way, the things I can say with certainty I did like were the performances, especially
Fonda's (i like him lean and somewhat mysterious and very serious) and Widmark's. I love
dorothy Malone, and only wish her character had even more to do though I was surprised
how she "changed", too. Everyone changes, it's weird I tell you!

If my "review" reads confusingly, then it accurately depicts my impressons of the film.

[movieman1957]

You caught me off guard. (I should have watched it after "Hondo." )

I've always thought this one of the more interesting westerns. The most interesting and complicated part of the movie is the relationship between Fonda and Quinn. I've heard people speculate that it is anything from a loyal friend on Quinn's part for someone who rescued him, looked past his flaws (disability) and respected him to a homosexual relationship.

As I recall the town has had enough of the rowdiness of the guys from a local ranch. They hire Fonda to come and be their mercenary sheriff. Fonda's comment that you point out is more a result of the way that he works. His methods are such that they get results and then at some point people think he has gone too far. At this point the people rebel.

I like Widmark in this one. His conscience getting the better of him I think is some fine acting on his part. Fonda and Quinn are both good as well and help carry the complexity of it well. I don't see it as a parody. It takes it self too seriously, for me, to be such. Then again I heard a writer mention in TV show (that a dear friend shared with me ) that there are really only seven western stories to work.

Before I go watch it again (so I can sound half way smart) is that the set looks awfully familiar. It looks part like the set in town for "The Ox Bow Incident." Some reminds me like some of "Silverado" was based on its set as well.

[MissGoddess]

Howdy, Chris!

Yes, the most puzzling thing was the relationship between Quinn and Fonda. It made sense right up until
Fonda had the over-the-top reaction to what happened---then I was totally lost.

The set also reminded me of the one used in MAN WITH THE GUN.

[movieman1957]

Hi again.

I'm not sure which part you refer to as Fonda's over-the-top reaction.

SPOILERS

Could it be that this movie is so unusual because the characters are? I don't recall two like Fonda and Quinn before. Sure there were sidekicks but this takes it to a whole new level. At it's core I think this is a movie of love, jealousy and hero worship and nearly all of it from Quinn's part. In fact I think that in a way this is really Quinn's movie. So much of what happens is directed by his actions. Quinn even wants Widmark because I think he feels he stole Fonda's job. Taking out Widmark regains Fonda the position of Marshal.

Fonda's and Quinn's relationship seems to start to fall apart when Fonda falls for "Jesse." Quinn will have none of it. He feels he is being replaced and that maybe Fonda is being tamed. He even tries to embarrass Fonda back into the mindset they had when they came to town. The dynamics have changed. Everything Quinn does is for Fonda's protection. Right down to the end of the movie. He plays to make Fonda look good. When Fonda carries Quinn into the bar he is only sorry that he had to do it. He is still loyal to Quinn even though he knows Quinn was wrong. Forcing the crowd to show him some respect was trying to make Quinn worthy of it.

Can you imagine this one in the "Rambles"?

[JackFavell]

I don't know about rambles, but this conversation is making me want to see it.

[klondike]

Then again I heard a writer mention in TV show (that a dear friend shared with me ) that there are really only seven western stories to work.

That reminds me of two quotes, Chris, one famous, one pretty darn obscure.
Edgar Allan Poe once remarked profoundly that, ultimately, there were only two subjects worth writing about - Love, & Death.
When that quote was referenced to a newly celebrated young best-selling novelist named Hemingway, while being interviewed for a New York magazine {think it was Collier's, but not sure}, he replied that Poe was exactly right, except that: "he overlooked the third eternal subject: greed. And I'm grateful for that one, 'cause it gives the rest of us hacks something to hang a story on!"

[MissGoddess]

Howdy, again, cowboy Chris,

I'm not sure which part you refer to as Fonda's over-the-top reaction.

MAJOR MEGA SPOILER...don't read on if you haven't seen WARLOCK and don't want it ruined for you....

When Quinn got his and Fonda went all silent-movie over it and forced everyone to sing "Rock of Ages". Interestingly, there's a parallel reaction by Widmark when his brother, Billy, gets shot. I thought both these scenes were much too broad and in both cases, could have been much more powerful without dialogue, or in Fonda's case, without the singing. His burning down the saloon was a little overly dramatic, too, but if he'd remained fairly silent and they'd cut out the singing part, it still could have been a strong and emotional scene. I honestly thought it was unintentionally funny.

It was just so out of character for him to suddenly become all emotional after having been positively laid back and stoic the rest of the time! Henry Fonda?? I can see Jimmy Stewart doing that.

Yes, it always comes back to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance ----look at how Ford shot Wayne's emotional breakdown with almost the same elements of behavior---that was so poignant and wrenching and not at all heavy handed like the same scene in Warlock.

When Fonda carries Quinn into the bar he is only sorry that he had to do it. He is still loyal to Quinn even though he knows Quinn was wrong. Forcing the crowd to show him some respect was trying to make Quinn worthy of it.

It's the singing, Chris, I couldn't understand where on earth that came from. Was Fonda a preacher's son? I would have expected exactly such a reaction by Quinn to Fonda's death---that would have been more in character.

Could it be that this movie is so unusual because the characters are? I don't recall two like Fonda and Quinn before. Sure there were sidekicks but this takes it to a whole new level. At it's core I think this is a movie of love, jealousy and hero worship and nearly all of it from Quinn's part. In fact I think that in a way this is really Quinn's movie. So much of what happens is directed by his actions. Quinn even wants Widmark because I think he feels he stole Fonda's job. Taking out Widmark regains Fonda the position of Marshal.

That's a good point, though I've seen Fonda this way before, just not as he was in the breakdown scene.

Actually, this scenario reminds me a little of the remake to 3:10 to Yuma.

Can you imagine this one in the "Rambles"?

It would get a lot of talk going, I'm sure. It's a very intriguing western.

[movieman1957]

MAJOR MEGA SPOILER...don't read on if you haven't seen WARLOCK and don't want it ruined for you....

My thought is that Fonda is having an impromptu funeral and you sing "Rock of Ages" at 19th century American funerals. The fact that Fonda has an awful voice doesn't help. IT might have worked better if he hadn't started it but he is holding the funeral. I also think in spite of having to kill Quinn he still looked at him as a friend. He certainly knew Quinn worshiped him. He grieves over a dead friend. I agree that it may have been overly dramatic. I didn't find it funny but it could have used some scaling down. He made his point with making somebody say something and by removing their hats. Burning the place down is really the cremation of Quinn. He is, in a weird way honoring Quinn.

When he kicks the crutch out from under that man (Wallace Ford?) he says he has had enough of him and I am not surprised. He spouts off being the town conscience and everyone has a limit.

A lot of people have a lot going on.

[MissGoddess]

WARLOCK....SPOILER

That's what I mean, ALL that stuff packed in one scene when Fonda never showed any hint of being capable of such emotional disturbance. That was WAY more than wanting an old friend to be properly mourned. That was a fit of hysterics.

I agree the old "judge" was annoying---it was good to put that bit in but they really needed to scale the whole hysterical outburst back to reality and let Fonda express himself as he naturally would---in a more tightly supressed and seething manner. It's like he suddenly became his pal, Jimmy Stewart!

I will say I really, really liked the final scene with the "gold handled" guns. That was cool.

Did the movie seem a trifle long to you? I expected it to end after a couple of high points and it kept going on....

[movieman1957]

It was a bit long. Two hours is often a long stretch for a western. I think there was more to cut out of the middle than the end. Fonda had to leave and on his terms. He had to show Widmark he could take him but he wasn't going to. He is leaving, though he was told to, but only by his own way.

[movieman1957]

Broken Lance

Made ten years later this could have been called "Bonanza: The Dark Side." Spencer Tracy plays cattle baron Matt Devereaux who with four sons runs a huge spread. A mine poisons a stream on his ranch killing some cattle. The mine company is less than cooperative when Tracy suggests they stop polluting his stream. Chaos ensues and things go downhill from there.

This is really about the politics of a family. Mostly they don't like each other. They spend most of the time revolting against or undermining each other but mostly their father. The best part are the performances. Tracy is fine as the tyrannical father. Richard Widmark is good as well as the oldest son. Bitter and angry at what was his lot in his early life he manages to take out his anger on his father and his young step-brother Robert Wagner, who was always Dad's favorite. Wagner is pretty good too. Hugh O'Brien is the second son but seems like he has about 10 lines in the movie. Poor Earl Holliman plays the young idiot son. Kay Jurado has a small part as the stoic, well mannered Indian wife to Tracy.

Not much action for a western and has probably been remade as straight drama. ("All My Sons" comes to mind but am not sure.) The movie is quick to blame Tracy for everything and not at all the mine company for escalating things so some of the plot doesn't hold up that well. The ending is rather abrupt but this one you might enjoy for the performances.

[MissGoddess]

Howdy, Chris! Broken Lance is in fact a remake of Joseph L. Mankiewicz's House of Strangers.

I think it works better on the level of a family drama than as a western---I like it mostly for the performances but
have to admit I think the original film is superior.

[movieman1957]

I knew there was something else. Thanks for the info. I agree. It's premise does work better as straight drama. THe funny thing is they could have done a straight drama with the same cast. Well, at least Tracy and the boys.

[MissGoddess]

I knew there was something else. Thanks for the info. I agree. It's premise does work better as straight drama. THe funny thing is they could have done a straight drama with the same cast. Well, at least Tracy and the boys.

Oh, yes, that really sounds like that would be interesting. Too bad they didn't go that route.