Destry Rides Again!
- GaryCooper
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
Movies are written in sand: applauded today, forgotten tomorrow.
D. W. Griffith
D. W. Griffith
- GaryCooper
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
Movies are written in sand: applauded today, forgotten tomorrow.
D. W. Griffith
D. W. Griffith
- jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western. Pre-WWII Jimmy Stewart was a good fit for this role, but I still favor his more gritty screen persona after he returned from WWII.
- HoldenIsHere
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
I agree, james. Calling DESTRY RIDES AGAIN a Western is similar to calling DIE HARD a "Christmas movie" just because it's during that time of the year.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑November 30th, 2022, 5:29 pm I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western. Pre-WWII Jimmy Stewart was a good fit for this role, but I still favor his more gritty screen persona after he returned from WWII.
Re: Destry Rides Again!
Oh, I dunno about that. Can you guys think of any other "rom-com" in which the lead actress dies in the arms of the lead actor after takin' one in the back for him?HoldenIsHere wrote: ↑December 1st, 2022, 3:16 pmI agree, james. Calling DESTRY RIDES AGAIN a Western is similar to calling DIE HARD a "Christmas movie" just because it's during that time of the year.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑November 30th, 2022, 5:29 pm I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western. Pre-WWII Jimmy Stewart was a good fit for this role, but I still favor his more gritty screen persona after he returned from WWII.
Nope, I say it's still primarily a western, first and foremost, but with some lighter elements thrown in.
(...now, the movies I've always had a little problem calling a "western" would be The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and probably because it's set in 1925 and years after the era of the "old west" was over, and along with Bad Day at Black Rock set during the post-WWII era)
- jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
Some lighter moments? All of the "dark" moments are played for laughs. Even the shooting in the back is something to just pass over. I.e. we are not suppose to care (and either does Destry much), since he never really loved her (he clearly fell for the good gal). I.e. the rom-com wasn't between Destry and the bad-gal. I enjoy both version but view them as comedies set in the west. Like the Harvey Girls there is the classic western theme of a growing town deciding what type of town it wants to be, but that is a musical comedy set in the west.Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 11:21 amOh, I dunno about that. Can you guys think of any other "rom-com" in which the lead actress dies in the arms of the lead actor after takin' one in the back for him?HoldenIsHere wrote: ↑December 1st, 2022, 3:16 pmI agree, james. Calling DESTRY RIDES AGAIN a Western is similar to calling DIE HARD a "Christmas movie" just because it's during that time of the year.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑November 30th, 2022, 5:29 pm I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western. Pre-WWII Jimmy Stewart was a good fit for this role, but I still favor his more gritty screen persona after he returned from WWII.
Nope, I say it's still primarily a western, first and foremost, but with some lighter elements thrown in.
(...now, the movies I've always had a little problem calling a "western" would be The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and probably because it's set in 1925 and years after the era of the "old west" was over, and along with Bad Day at Black Rock set during the post-WWII era)
Re: Destry Rides Again!
I attended Marlene's one-person shows in New York twice, in 1967 and 1968. She was wonderful, and of course sang "The Boys in the Back Room."
A musical version, with music and lyrics by Harold Rome, played on Broadway for over a year 1959-1960. Dolores Gray played Frenchy, the Dietrich role. I didn't see the show, but it ends happily for Frenchy; after all it was a Broadway musical comedy! Here's one of the lovely songs from the score:
A musical version, with music and lyrics by Harold Rome, played on Broadway for over a year 1959-1960. Dolores Gray played Frenchy, the Dietrich role. I didn't see the show, but it ends happily for Frenchy; after all it was a Broadway musical comedy! Here's one of the lovely songs from the score:
Re: Destry Rides Again!
Nope James, not "all the dark moments are played for laughs". The scene when Sheriff Dimsdale (Charles Winninger) gets gunned down in his office isn't exactly a laugh riot, ya know. This being just one example, and with many other examples being contained within scene that primarily feature Brian Donlevy.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 12:44 pm
Some lighter moments? All of the "dark" moments are played for laughs. Even the shooting in the back is something to just pass over. I.e. we are not suppose to care (and either does Destry much), since he never really loved her (he clearly fell for the good gal). I.e. the rom-com wasn't between Destry and the bad-gal. I enjoy both version but view them as comedies set in the west. Like the Harvey Girls there is the classic western theme of a growing town deciding what type of town it wants to be, but that is a musical comedy set in the west.
And, the relationship between Destry and Frenchy is a lot hotter than you're lettin' on and/or seem to be purposely dismissing here, as it's VERY obvious that Destry has acquirred very strong feelings for her since he arrived into Bottleneck and DEFINITELY feels great sorrow as she dies in his arms. Heck my friend, THIS very aspect of the movie and how well the two leads play off each other in order to garner the audience's sympathy for their plight is one of the very reasons why this film is so great!
(...and again, I've always felt the ONLY reason he ends up with the "good girl" at the end was because traditionally speaking the "bad girl" was NOT "supposed to" end up with the virtuous hero, only the "good girl" was, and that "bad girls" always had to "pay for their sins" by the end of the picture back in the day)
Last edited by Dargo on December 13th, 2022, 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Destry Rides Again!
Cuthbert wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 1:04 pm I attended Marlene's one-person shows in New York twice, in 1967 and 1968. She was wonderful, and of course sang "The Boys in the Back Room."
A musical version, with music and lyrics by Harold Rome, played on Broadway for over a year 1959-1960. Dolores Gray played Frenchy, the Dietrich role. I didn't see the show, but it ends happily for Frenchy; after all it was a Broadway musical comedy! Here's one of the lovely songs from the score:
![thumb :smilie_happy_thumbup:](./images/smilies/smilie_happy_thumbup.gif)
- jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
Well we can just agree to disagree here: Destry has a strong sexual desire for Frenchy. DUH. This is a plot device to show that Destry is a man after all, even if he doesn't wear a gun and doesn't resort to the use of violence at the drop of a hat. Come on his name is Destry!!!! The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west. Thus plot devices were used to show that Destry was just as manly as any man in town (but especially the bad men); E.g. him showing off his gun skills without hurting anyone. So of course he liked sex with gals like Frenchy. Any "real" man does. This is done to get men in the audience to root for Destry (or at least stay with him). This drags on until the death of the Sheriff, a mostly comical character as it goes for a Sheriff of such a town. Another plot device to show that the way Destry has played-the-game so far had failed.Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 1:08 pmNope James, not "all the dark moments are played for laughs". The scene when Sheriff Dimsdale (Charles Winninger) gets gunned down in his office isn't exactly a laugh riot, ya know. This being just one example, and with many other examples being contained within scene that primarily feature Brian Donlevy.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 12:44 pm
Some lighter moments? All of the "dark" moments are played for laughs. Even the shooting in the back is something to just pass over. I.e. we are not suppose to care (and either does Destry much), since he never really loved her (he clearly fell for the good gal). I.e. the rom-com wasn't between Destry and the bad-gal. I enjoy both version but view them as comedies set in the west. Like the Harvey Girls there is the classic western theme of a growing town deciding what type of town it wants to be, but that is a musical comedy set in the west.
And, the relationship between Destry and Frenchy is a lot hotter than you're lettin' on and/or seem to be purposely dismissing here, as it's VERY obvious that Destry has acquirred very strong feelings for her since he arrived into Bottleneck and DEFINITELY feels great sorrow as she dies in his arms. Heck my friend, THIS very aspect of the movie and how well the two leads play off each other in order to garner the audience's sympathy for their plight is one of the very reasons why this film is so great!
(...and again, I've always felt the ONLY reason he ends up with the "good girl" at the end was because traditionally speaking the "bad girl" was NOT "supposed to" end up with the virtuous hero, only the "good girl" was, and that "bad girls" always had to "pay for their sins" by the end of the picture back in the day)
Re: Destry Rides Again!
"The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west."jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 2:10 pmWell we can just agree to disagree here: Destry has a strong sexual desire for Frenchy. DUH. This is a plot device to show that Destry is a man after all, even if he doesn't wear a gun and doesn't resort to the use of violence at the drop of a hat. Come on his name is Destry!!!! The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west. Thus plot devices were used to show that Destry was just as manly as any man in town (but especially the bad men); E.g. him showing off his gun skills without hurting anyone. So of course he liked sex with gals like Frenchy. Any "real" man does. This is done to get men in the audience to root for Destry (or at least stay with him). This drags on until the death of the Sheriff, a mostly comical character as it goes for a Sheriff of such a town. Another plot device to show that the way Destry has played-the-game so far had failed.Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 1:08 pmNope James, not "all the dark moments are played for laughs". The scene when Sheriff Dimsdale (Charles Winninger) gets gunned down in his office isn't exactly a laugh riot, ya know. This being just one example, and with many other examples being contained within scene that primarily feature Brian Donlevy.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 12:44 pm
Some lighter moments? All of the "dark" moments are played for laughs. Even the shooting in the back is something to just pass over. I.e. we are not suppose to care (and either does Destry much), since he never really loved her (he clearly fell for the good gal). I.e. the rom-com wasn't between Destry and the bad-gal. I enjoy both version but view them as comedies set in the west. Like the Harvey Girls there is the classic western theme of a growing town deciding what type of town it wants to be, but that is a musical comedy set in the west.
And, the relationship between Destry and Frenchy is a lot hotter than you're lettin' on and/or seem to be purposely dismissing here, as it's VERY obvious that Destry has acquirred very strong feelings for her since he arrived into Bottleneck and DEFINITELY feels great sorrow as she dies in his arms. Heck my friend, THIS very aspect of the movie and how well the two leads play off each other in order to garner the audience's sympathy for their plight is one of the very reasons why this film is so great!
(...and again, I've always felt the ONLY reason he ends up with the "good girl" at the end was because traditionally speaking the "bad girl" was NOT "supposed to" end up with the virtuous hero, only the "good girl" was, and that "bad girls" always had to "pay for their sins" by the end of the picture back in the day)
Uh-huh, and very similarly to Gregory Peck's character in The Big Country, and you'd call THIS film a "western", now wouldn't you?! Although sure, there is a lot less humor in the Wyler movie. And with the commonality of character here being that both are self-assured men who attempt to skirt violence as best they can and while not caring one bit what others think of them. And btw, it seems that you think Jimmy plays Destry as some sort of ineffectual "doofus", but this couldn't be less accurate a description of his character in this film. Nope, it's nothing at all like say Bob Hope in Paleface for instance.
(...but perhaps you're right in regard to your "agree to disagree" comment, as I can see you've already made up your mind about this)
- jamesjazzguitar
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
Note my initial comment was "I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western.".Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 2:44 pm"The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west."jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 2:10 pmWell we can just agree to disagree here: Destry has a strong sexual desire for Frenchy. DUH. This is a plot device to show that Destry is a man after all, even if he doesn't wear a gun and doesn't resort to the use of violence at the drop of a hat. Come on his name is Destry!!!! The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west. Thus plot devices were used to show that Destry was just as manly as any man in town (but especially the bad men); E.g. him showing off his gun skills without hurting anyone. So of course he liked sex with gals like Frenchy. Any "real" man does. This is done to get men in the audience to root for Destry (or at least stay with him). This drags on until the death of the Sheriff, a mostly comical character as it goes for a Sheriff of such a town. Another plot device to show that the way Destry has played-the-game so far had failed.Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 1:08 pm
Nope James, not "all the dark moments are played for laughs". The scene when Sheriff Dimsdale (Charles Winninger) gets gunned down in his office isn't exactly a laugh riot, ya know. This being just one example, and with many other examples being contained within scene that primarily feature Brian Donlevy.
And, the relationship between Destry and Frenchy is a lot hotter than you're lettin' on and/or seem to be purposely dismissing here, as it's VERY obvious that Destry has acquirred very strong feelings for her since he arrived into Bottleneck and DEFINITELY feels great sorrow as she dies in his arms. Heck my friend, THIS very aspect of the movie and how well the two leads play off each other in order to garner the audience's sympathy for their plight is one of the very reasons why this film is so great!
(...and again, I've always felt the ONLY reason he ends up with the "good girl" at the end was because traditionally speaking the "bad girl" was NOT "supposed to" end up with the virtuous hero, only the "good girl" was, and that "bad girls" always had to "pay for their sins" by the end of the picture back in the day)
Uh-huh, and very similarly to Gregory Peck's character in The Big Country, and you'd call THIS film a "western", now wouldn't you?! Although sure, there is a lot less humor in the Wyler movie. And with the commonality of character here being that both are self-assured men who attempt to skirt violence as best they can and while not caring one bit what others think of them. And btw, it seems that you think Jimmy plays Destry as some sort of ineffectual "doofus", but this couldn't be less accurate a description of his character in this film. Nope, it's nothing at all like say Bob Hope in Paleface for instance.
(...but perhaps you're right in regard to your "agree to disagree" comment, as I can see you've already made up your mind about this)
I even put "true" in quotes; thus it isn't a binary question, thus I'm sticking with more "more of" comment. While The Big Country is almost all-the-way a western.
Also, in no way am I implying that Jimmy plays Destry as some sort of ineffectual "doofus". NOPE. The point was that compared to the over the top cookie cutter man's man hero, typically found in manty westerns, Destry is different; he is the type of man I have more respect for (remember my favorite actor is Leslie Howard, especially in how he plays the hero in The Scarlett Pimpernel); BUT at the end of the day, situations make the use of a gun and violence necessary (which was the political statement being made due to what was happening in the world at the time).
Re: Destry Rides Again!
Appreciate you clarifying your take on the Destry character and how Jimmy plays him, however this one recent comment of yours here...jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 5:31 pmNote my initial comment was "I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western.".Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 2:44 pm"The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west."jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Well we can just agree to disagree here: Destry has a strong sexual desire for Frenchy. DUH. This is a plot device to show that Destry is a man after all, even if he doesn't wear a gun and doesn't resort to the use of violence at the drop of a hat. Come on his name is Destry!!!! The plot is built around Destry not being a typical hero or even a man-of-the-west. Thus plot devices were used to show that Destry was just as manly as any man in town (but especially the bad men); E.g. him showing off his gun skills without hurting anyone. So of course he liked sex with gals like Frenchy. Any "real" man does. This is done to get men in the audience to root for Destry (or at least stay with him). This drags on until the death of the Sheriff, a mostly comical character as it goes for a Sheriff of such a town. Another plot device to show that the way Destry has played-the-game so far had failed.
Uh-huh, and very similarly to Gregory Peck's character in The Big Country, and you'd call THIS film a "western", now wouldn't you?! Although sure, there is a lot less humor in the Wyler movie. And with the commonality of character here being that both are self-assured men who attempt to skirt violence as best they can and while not caring one bit what others think of them. And btw, it seems that you think Jimmy plays Destry as some sort of ineffectual "doofus", but this couldn't be less accurate a description of his character in this film. Nope, it's nothing at all like say Bob Hope in Paleface for instance.
(...but perhaps you're right in regard to your "agree to disagree" comment, as I can see you've already made up your mind about this)
I even put "true" in quotes; thus it isn't a binary question, thus I'm sticking with more "more of" comment. While The Big Country is almost all-the-way a western.
Also, in no way am I implying that Jimmy plays Destry as some sort of ineffectual "doofus". NOPE. The point was that compared to the over the top cookie cutter man's man hero, typically found in manty westerns, Destry is different; he is the type of man I have more respect for (remember my favorite actor is Leslie Howard, especially in how he plays the hero in The Scarlett Pimpernel); BUT at the end of the day, situations make the use of a gun and violence necessary (which was the political statement being made due to what was happening in the world at the time).
"I even put "true" in quotes; thus it isn't a binary question, thus I'm sticking with more "more of" comment. While The Big Country is almost all-the-way a western."
...is still giving me the impression that you still believe any "true" western is incumbent upon it being a straight drama.
(...and btw, I don't mean the word "straight" here in any sort of present-day "binary" fashion or meaning...LOL...and seein' as how you've brought that word into the discussion here)
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
- HoldenIsHere
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Re: Destry Rides Again!
But Dargo, isn't there a scene like the one you describe in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY?Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 11:21 amOh, I dunno about that. Can you guys think of any other "rom-com" in which the lead actress dies in the arms of the lead actor after takin' one in the back for him?HoldenIsHere wrote: ↑December 1st, 2022, 3:16 pmI agree, james. Calling DESTRY RIDES AGAIN a Western is similar to calling DIE HARD a "Christmas movie" just because it's during that time of the year.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑November 30th, 2022, 5:29 pm I view this film as more of a rom-com set in the west, than a "true" western. Pre-WWII Jimmy Stewart was a good fit for this role, but I still favor his more gritty screen persona after he returned from WWII.
Re: Destry Rides Again!
No, but I THINK there's a scene in Destry Rides Again where Frenchy fakes an orgasm.HoldenIsHere wrote: ↑December 14th, 2022, 12:20 amBut Dargo, isn't there a scene like the one you describe in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY?Dargo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 11:21 amOh, I dunno about that. Can you guys think of any other "rom-com" in which the lead actress dies in the arms of the lead actor after takin' one in the back for him?HoldenIsHere wrote: ↑December 1st, 2022, 3:16 pm
I agree, james. Calling DESTRY RIDES AGAIN a Western is similar to calling DIE HARD a "Christmas movie" just because it's during that time of the year.
And THEN as I recall right afterwards, the camera pans over to Irene Hervey who plays the good guy Janice and she says, "I'll have what she's having".
(...but like I said, I'm not 100% sure of this, so don't quote me here)