Just a quick question...

Chit-chat, current events
User avatar
charliechaplinfan
Posts: 9040
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am

Post by charliechaplinfan »

We are all Irish, I have relatives that hail from Mayo too. It's no surprise, an English Catholic from Lancashire was bound to have some Irish in her. The only red hair I have is the ones that the hairdresser put in. My true colour is a mousey brown, my eye colour is green.

My daughter has the most tangly hair. It's a battle every morning to untangle it. I've started plaiting it before she goes to bed. She loves having her hair done, only she's started doing it herself. Same with makeup, my husbands auntie has just bought her a play makeup set for her 6th birthday, not my choice. When made up she looks like a clown without the red nose. She needs to learn that less is more :lol:
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
klondike

Post by klondike »

To those who need to know, this is what it says on my warning label:

100% Reconstituted Celt:
Ingredients- 3/4 Scottish, 1/4 Irish & Welsh.
Directions- Just add 3 oz Jameson's first, then 20 oz Guinness, step back & listen; can be enjoyed with or without tartan.
Caution: Not recommended for anyone prone to rigid morality, unimaginative mindset or consistent political correctness.
jdb1

Post by jdb1 »

You know, this is beginning to sound like one of those PBS specials glorifying the hyphenated American. I wonder if you posters in Britain have anything like them.

On those shows, eveyone, no matter what ethnic group, claims to have a "special" relationship with his or her family unit, food, music, hair color, and possibly shoe size. I say we are all special and, this being America, we all have the opportunity to be red-headed too, if we feel like it. E pluribus, and all that. :D
klondike

Post by klondike »

jdb1 wrote:You know, this is beginning to sound like one of those PBS specials glorifying the hyphenated American. I wonder if you posters in Britain have anything like them.
Just scanned back, didn't find anyone using a hyphenated designation for themselves anywhere; but if we had done so (i.e. Irish-American, Armenian-American, Greek-American, French-Canadian, etc.) would there be something wrong or undesirable about that? And don't you think the term "them" in that context is a little alienating?
It was Maya Angelou who said "It matters less what you call me, than what I answer to."
Get her drift?
jdb1 wrote: On those shows, eveyone, no matter what ethnic group, claims to have a "special" relationship with his or her family unit, food, music, hair color, and possibly shoe size.
Sounds a little exaggerated, but regardless: where's the problem with that? Personally, I have little use for Americans who derive little or no identity from their ethnic origins, and in particular, I find extreme irritation with the pushy, snotty Heinz 57 Club who judge themselves more patriotic for choosing to not identify themselves that way.
I'm glad my forebearers chose to begin emigrating to the U.S. over 200 years ago, but my sense of pride in that fact hardly invalidates the achievements & sacrifices of their ancestors who occupied their native lands in the British Isles for the past 3,000 years.
jdb1 wrote:I say we are all special and, this being America, we all have the opportunity to be red-headed too, if we feel like it. E pluribus, and all that. :D
No arguments with the big chunks of that, but we were having a discussion about the genealogies of individuals on this thread, and, I think we might be feeling a little jaded with all the national star-spangled drumbeating consuming the rest of our pre-election media right now!
I think all the participants in this discussion already know what their rights, privileges & legacies as modern citizens are.
melwalton
Posts: 503
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 5:58 pm

Irish

Post by melwalton »

I know you were kidding, Judy but we had given that a thought,and it seems very unlikely. At that time,Ireland was much farther away from England than now and it would be very difficult for a colleen to get away from thee farm chores for half a mo.

We're not ALL Irish, John. I'm a mongrel and can trace my ancesstry all the way back to Dubois, PA in the latter part of the 19 C (what pasrt of Ireland is that?)

I recall, in the thirties someone remarking that there were more Irish in the Bro nx than inn Dublin. I keep thinking what a different world this would be were yhere no potato bugs. ... mmel
jdb1

Post by jdb1 »

klondike wrote:
jdb1 wrote:You know, this is beginning to sound like one of those PBS specials glorifying the hyphenated American. I wonder if you posters in Britain have anything like them.
Just scanned back, didn't find anyone using a hyphenated designation for themselves anywhere; but if we had done so (i.e. Irish-American, Armenian-American, Greek-American, French-Canadian, etc.) would there be something wrong or undesirable about that? And don't you think the term "them" in that context is a little alienating?
It was Maya Angelou who said "It matters less what you call me, than what I answer to."
Get her drift?
jdb1 wrote: On those shows, eveyone, no matter what ethnic group, claims to have a "special" relationship with his or her family unit, food, music, hair color, and possibly shoe size.
Sounds a little exaggerated, but regardless: where's the problem with that? Personally, I have little use for Americans who derive little or no identity from their ethnic origins, and in particular, I find extreme irritation with the pushy, snotty Heinz 57 Club who judge themselves more patriotic for choosing to not identify themselves that way.
I'm glad my forebearers chose to begin emigrating to the U.S. over 200 years ago, but my sense of pride in that fact hardly invalidates the achievements & sacrifices of their ancestors who occupied their native lands in the British Isles for the past 3,000 years.
jdb1 wrote:I say we are all special and, this being America, we all have the opportunity to be red-headed too, if we feel like it. E pluribus, and all that. :D
No arguments with the big chunks of that, but we were having a discussion about the genealogies of individuals on this thread, and, I think we might be feeling a little jaded with all the national star-spangled drumbeating consuming the rest of our pre-election media right now!
I think all the participants in this discussion already know what their rights, privileges & legacies as modern citizens are.
Hey, Klonny - simmer down. There aren't too many people here at SSO who are more hyphenated than I am, and I'm proud of it. I was just teasing; and I don't see anything at all wrong with taking pride in your heritage.

My comment was to the fact that in these TV programs, each group, no matter what they consider their ethnic heritage, says essentially the same thing. And I don't think I'm exaggerating. Have you watched any of them? Since we here also take pride in our backgrounds, I'm reading similar comments here as well, and I pointed out that we are indeed all special -- we are fortunate to have had so much to build on from so many sources.

In this country, more than in most others, we are in the peculiar position of having the luxury of an extended kind of patriotic pride that many of other nationalities don't really understand. I know this from my work at the International Center in NYC, where I had many occasions to try to explain to my foreign-born "conversation partners" how I could express loyalties to so many different entities, and still consider myself first and foremost an American.

Oh, yeah, and by the way, the "them" I meant in "I wonder if you have anything like them," was referring to the programs, not the people. In the immortal words of Daffy Duck: "Pronoun problems." Crimanetlies!
Last edited by jdb1 on September 25th, 2008, 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
ken123
Posts: 1797
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 4:08 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by ken123 »

I am of Irish & German heritage, but I often get asked, since at least grammar school, are you Jewish ? In the neighobohood that I grew up it was overwhemingly Irish & Italian, but just a few ( 3 ) blocks south is was Greek, Jewish, and Irish.It was all part of the larger Austin neighborhood. But see the [/b]the Irish are EVERYWHERE :lol:
User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3899
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by ChiO »

Not to be left out: Welsh & English on father's side; English (Comstock), Irish (Cochran), & Scot (McCrea) on mother's. And red hair does run through my mother's side, though I had white hair until I was about 8, then it gradually turned to mouse to light brown to dark brown. It has since reverted to its natural color (no, it's not gray or even silver; it is white, honest).

MrsChiO is 100% Greek (or won't admit to any Turk). And Ken -- she went to Austin H.S. Me: I'm Hoosier (note the basketball in my hand and hayseed in my hair).

And speaking of the Irish and red hair: Slap me down, Klonny, but I thought credit was to be given to dem dere Viking invaders, dere, youbetcha.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
User avatar
Birdy
Posts: 894
Joined: June 6th, 2007, 2:25 pm
Location: The Banks of the Wabash

Post by Birdy »

jdb1 wrote:It's a very interesting phenomenon: I was born with very dark brown, almost black hair. But lately, every six weeks or so, my hair seems to be getting lighter brown, and now has a definite reddish cast to it. Funny thing -- I seem to notice it the most the day after I visit my hairdresser. Wonder what it could be . . . . . . . . ?

Is it the "Middle-Aged Italian Woman's Hair Color Progression?" i.e., black, to brown, to red to blonde to silver. If so, I'm making good progress.

I knew we had more in common than movies - I have the same hair phenomenon. hmmm - it's quite a conundrum.

I also have the tangles of charliec.f.'s daughter. I highly advise you to go to the website Naturallycurly.com. and cocktail! And remember: Never touch curls!

My mother's last name was Scott and my dad's family is British and Native American. So first I freckle, then I get really dark! We 3 siblings were blonde, brunette and redhead!
B
User avatar
mrsl
Posts: 4200
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Location: Chicago SW suburbs

Post by mrsl »

I have already completed the transition that jdb and Birdy have discussed, I went from dark brown (nearly black), to light brown, reddish hues, blonde, gray, and finally white, but here is the thing that always confused me.

My dad had red hair until pre-teen (he's 100% Italian), then black, black hair until it turned white. My first husband had red hair (Irish) as did his grandfather. Now when he and I got together, three of our four kids have red hair and fair skin, but our last daughter looks 100% Italian - black hair, olive skin, and roman nose etc. Her kids have olive skin and black hair. My oldest son (red hair, freckles) has two red heads, and my other daughter had blond kids.

The point really is whose genes are stronger when you have children. You would expect me to have all dark hair and skinned kids but not. Nobody ever took my girls to be related let alone be sisters. Kids are throwbacks all the way back to their ancestors.

Anne
Anne


***********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *

]***********************************************************************
User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8024
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Post by moira finnie »

ChiO wrote:Not to be left out: Welsh & English on father's side; English (Comstock), Irish (Cochran), & Scot (McCrea) on mother's. And red hair does run through my mother's side, though I had white hair until I was about 8, then it gradually turned to mouse to light brown to dark brown. It has since reverted to its natural color (no, it's not gray or even silver; it is white, honest).

MrsChiO is 100% Greek (or won't admit to any Turk). And Ken -- she went to Austin H.S. Me: I'm Hoosier (note the basketball in my hand and hayseed in my hair).

And speaking of the Irish and red hair: Slap me down, Klonny, but I thought credit was to be given to dem dere Viking invaders, dere, youbetcha.
A salient point, ChiO.

Not only is the red hair credited to those pesky Vikings, but the dark haired Irish, (often called Black Irish) are allegedly the descendants of the Spanish sailors who washed up on the shores of Eire after 24 ships of the Spanish Armada were shipwrecked by severe storms near the north and western coasts of Ireland in 1588. Exhibit A of the process of a splendid result of this trans-germination among humans in Ireland after this catastrophe is seen below:
Image

Another factor that is said to have contributed to the unlikely event of so many redheads: malnutrition. Poor sources of protein in Ireland are allegedly one factor that may have contributed to an unusual number of carrot tops in the entire British Isles, especially Ireland (the poorest region by far).

As a person who has been a real redhead all her life, (with freckles, and no chemical enhancement yet), I've often wondered why this recessive trait has lasted this long in the human race, particularly because it makes one stand out even when you don't want to, (adolescence was hell), led to certain outcasts being known as "redheaded stepchildren" and the burning of many redheads as witches in the Middle Ages.

Btw, there was a widely circulated report from geneticists last year that concluded that red hair may be gone from the planet by the end of this century due to intermarriage. As a member of this endangered species, I was interested in a report prepared by Sir Walter Bodmer, the Oxford geneticist studying the prevalence of red hair in Ireland, Scotland and Britain:
But why do we have such numbers in these parts of the British Isles today and not others? The answer, says Bodmer, is that red-hair genes were common among the first Britons and that populations in the archipelago’s fringes still carry their bloodline.

“Genes for red hair first appeared in human beings about 40,000 to 50,000 years ago,” agrees Rees.

These genes were then carried into the islands by the original settlers, men and women who “would have been relatively tall, with little body fat, athletic, fair-skinned and who would have had red hair”, says David Miles, of English Heritage.

Redheads therefore represent the land’s most ancient lineages. So if you want an image of how those first people appeared, don’t think of a hairy savage with a mane of thick black hair. Contemplate instead a picture of a slim, ginger-haired individual: Prince Harry, perhaps, or the actress Nicole Kidman who has Scottish and Irish descent.

Why did those early Britons have so many redheads in their midst in the first place? Is there an evolutionary advantage to having red hair in this part of the world? According to Rees, the answer may be yes.

The MC1R variants that cause red hair also have an effect on the skin. As a result, redheads do not make enough of the dark pigment melanin to protect them against the sun’s powerful ultraviolet rays. Their skin rarely tans. It just burns or freckles.

In Africa, where modern humans first evolved 150,000 years ago, this would have been fatal. In northern Europe, however, melanin-free skin could have provided an advantage because we make vitamin D in our skin when sunlight shines on it.

Dark-skinned people were protected against the African sun, but their ability to make vitamin D would have been badly affected in relatively gloomy northern Europe. This could have caused rickets, resulting in weak bones and curved legs — bad news for a hunter-gatherer. Rickets is particularly damaging for women, as it increases pelvic deformations, raising the risk of death in childbirth. So, the theory goes, we evolved white, melanin-free skin that has no dark pigment to block sunlight and cause rickets. Red hair was a side effect.

So there it is: being a redhead could mean you possess an evolutionary advantage over non-red-haired people
I always knew we were an oddity in the general population, but now I guess I can start to feel oh, so special!! :wink:

Btw, anyone who wants to take pride in their hyphenated ethnicity is fine with me.
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks
Synnove
Posts: 329
Joined: March 8th, 2008, 10:00 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Synnove »

I live in a country which over a million people emigrated from. If the memory of that had completely died out in the places where they settled, like Minnesota, it would seem kind of sad to me.

My grandfather had a number of uncles and aunts who emigrated in the 20's. I sometimes wonder what happened to them.
klondike

Post by klondike »

Synnove wrote:I live in a country which over a million people emigrated from. If the memory of that had completely died out in the places where they settled, like Minnesota, it would seem kind of sad to me.
Thank you for that, my Friend.
As an American, let me express to you that most of us over here would find that sort of unremembering to be quite sad, too . . . and more than a little tragic, as well.
Let us hope that day never dawns!
Hollis
Posts: 687
Joined: April 15th, 2007, 4:38 pm

Post by Hollis »

Hey, hey, hey...

I'm starting to feel as though I should have just missed the movie in the first place! I've started a race war here and everyone's jumping in to sling some dirt in the other fellow's direction! Everybody take their six pack and potato and go sit in a corner and reconsider their already tenuous positions. C'mon it's not like Celts are known for having a temper or rolling their "r's" is it? Be nice now lads and lassies! I don't want to be tellin ye' again!

As always and still full of the Blarney,

McHollis

p.s. Q. - By the way, if an Irishman's rooster lays an egg in a Scotsman's yard, who can rightfully claim ownership of said egg?
A. - Neither! Only we Jews can squeeze an egg out of a rooster!
Post Reply