My Darling Clementine

[mrsl]

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I didn't backtrack so I'm not sure if this page is answering my question of whether Ford and Earp could have met. Who ever suggested Sunset, was quite right in doing so because when the movie came out, the question was raised about Earp and Mix possibly meeting, and actually the timing was possible.

Regarding Bruce Willis, I love him. I just wish he would grow his hair back, he looks so much better. I have seen him on so many shows, and he is always laughing at himself. His life is the biggest joke in his life. If he would quit the mugging and get down to dramatic acting, I think he would do extremely well, but his whole career starting with Moonlighting has been lived for laughs.

As for Jim Garner, if you recall his interview with RO, after a couple of years, he realized how underpaid he was, and tried to get a raise, but WB refused, and his contract kept him locked in, even when Jack Kelly came in making more than Jim. So I think if you see a trace of irritability, it is well deserved. How was he in Rockford? I never got into that show, even when it was in reruns.

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[mrsl]

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I don't know how this thread got shanghaied to Jim Garner, but I watched My Darling Clementine tonight again, fully awake and paying full attention from beginning to end, unfortunately.

The only reason this can possibly be considered a western is because it is set in the western states. It could have been set in 1970 as a good cop/bad cop situation for Earp and Holliday, and/or a bank robbery gone wrong for the police and the robbers.

As for Linda Darnell and her sultry looks . . . . all I saw was a pouting brat who couldn't get what she wanted, and was jealous of the other pretty girl.

As usual Victor Mature weasels his way through all of his scenes, with his unibrow eye brows, and his greasy hair, along with his monotone speaking voice.

Thank the lord for Henry Fonda who at least gave us some variance in emotion, but not a whole lot. The first half of the movie was so slow, I'm surprised I did stay awake, and it never really started moving until Linda got shot.

If you're going to call a movie a western, I want some horse back riding, shooting, and a fight now and then. The one thing RO and Alec said about the Shakesperean actor gave me a different thought than theirs. Doc was a doctor, or had started to study as one. So he did spend time in the East where Shakespeare was available to him, and also available for him to read. So his knowing certain passages was no surprise to me. Mr L, the mechanic spent many hours reading Shakespeare and memorizing various passages.

I saw no double meanings in any of the lines. Everything was above board and open. There was more acting later when Martha put Ethan's coat away in The Searchers than in the whole of My Darling Clementine. So, yes, I was very disappointed in this movie. Maybe I'll go back and read some of the earlier posts and see if any of them change my way of thinking.
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[JackFavell]

Wow. I have no idea what movie you were watching. My Darling Clementine is brilliant. To each their own, I guess.

[mrsl]

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Wow Jack Favell:

We're really at opposite ends of the spectre of My Darling Clementine aren't we? Normally we are about even, maybe not loving but not hating certain movies either. Actually, I did go back and re-read the whole thread. I didn't even realize that I started it, but my review at that time was not all that different than this one. I have a bad habit of nodding off for a ten or fifteen minute snooze during movies, but I made sure I stayed awake for this one so I know my assessment is accurate for the whole movie, ie., I didn't miss anything. I loved Linda Darnell in Zorro, Forever Amber and A Letter to Three Wives, but in this one she just doesn't do anything for me. Victor Mature never does, but old Hank Fonda was his usual A+ self, as was Walter Brennan.
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[JackFavell]

I like pretty much everything about the film, but mostly the look, the pace, the mise en scene. The script is almost nonexistent in my memory....everything takes place between lines, and I like that so much. Holt and Bond are terrific, as are the Clanton boys. But really every character, large or small, is wonderful. I adored how Ford blocked some of the sequences in the barroom, juxtaposing J. Farrell MacDonald on one side, with Francis Ford on the other. In between, Alan Mowbray, with Fonda and Mature thrown in to the mix for good measure. What an incredible group of actors!

I actually think Victor Mature is brilliant. when he is struggling to keep from coughing, I truly believe it, and I see his struggle is not just with disease, but to keep people from thinking he is weak. In the scene where he is looking at his reflection in his diploma, I feel his boiling hatred of himself...and I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of his wrath. His soliloquy is eloquent without being overdone. I find him fascinating, enigmatic, and yet, modern and totally understandable. Every thought is clear in his performance.

The way he and Fonda play together, Fonda soothing, and Mature seething, is as good as it gets, at least for me. I can literally see Mature thinking about what Fonda says, and respecting him enough to listen. I think maybe Mature is not your cup of tea, because you do not like the types he plays, usually smarmy guys who are out for themselves, and I can't blame you. But I do think he is very fine in this movie, showing subtlety and reach. I only wish he had had more roles like this.

While Darnell's character is written as little more than a caricature at the start, she really pulls out a good performance from the time that Doc leaves her standing on the porch in the dust. I especially like her smile to him when he looks down at her after the operation. I would agree that Chihuahua is maybe the weak point in the film, but I don't see anyone else playing that part any better.

The rest of the film is flawless, I think. But that is what makes a horse race, no?

[Lzcutter]

While I admit to never being enamored of the story of My Darling Clementine, I do like to watch this film for the sheer beauty of the cinematography. The DP, Joseph MacDonald, did a wonderful job. We are so used to seeing Monument Valley in color but here, thanks to MacDonald's work, the film shows us how powerful the landscape and the sky can be in helping tell the story.

I loved what Alec had to say about Victor Mature and the scene with the Shakespearean actor. I wanted to bop Robert O's fact-checker on the noggin for the comment, "He seemed so out of place" (referring to Alan Mowbray's character). Actors and actresses, historically, traveled the West giving readings and performances, so it would not be uncommon for someone like Thorndyke to come to Tombstone.

I also agree with Alec that Fonda is a "cool" actor. Not cool in today's jargon, but that there is something held at a distance in his character of Wyatt Earp. His Earp is not a man one easily warms up to.

I also loved that Wild Bill Wellman would use two actors from this film, Fonda and Jane Darwell in two very different roles in The Ox-Bow Incident.

And Walter Brennan and that whip, enough said. The guy knew how to steal a scene, any scene he was in.

I had a blast watching TCM yesterday. Fort Apache, Clementine, Sgt. Rutledge which I hadn't seen in almost thirty years and still enjoyed, The Searchers and fell asleep at the end of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.

[JackFavell]

I missed the talk at the beginning of MDC.

Thorndyke always reminds me of Oscar WIlde, who toured the U.S. performing a one man show of his thoughts and writings. I found this on the web. I have no idea of the background of the writer.


http://www.literarytraveler.com/literar ... _west.aspx

[mrsl]

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Okay Miss Jack Favell, what the heck is 'mise en scene'? smarty pants . . Someone told me once before, but I've forgotten by now, since French is not a chosen language for me, give me Italian any day.

Lynn:
You said: "I had a blast watching TCM yesterday. Fort Apache, Clementine, Sgt. Rutledge which I hadn't seen in almost thirty years and still enjoyed, The Searchers and fell asleep at the end of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon." Me too, I watched all of them, but I hit the 'Record' button for in cases, and a good thing, because I watched the end of Yellow Ribbon this a.m. It's probably been as long for me to have seen Sgt. Rutledge. In fact, I had forgotten the true course of events. Fine movie wasn't it?
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[movieman1957]

Try this.

http://afronord.tripod.com/film/mise.html

[mrsl]

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Miss Jack:

I still want to know what that mise thing is - got a minute?
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[JackFavell]

Mise-en-scene (as already posted by movieman):

to put on stage, or the staging of an action: the elements of mise-en-scene include the contents of the frame and the way they have been organised

So mise en scene is the contents of the screen at any given moment, and how it got there, and where it is moving to, and how it looks. This is what we call "blocking" in theater - in other words, all the movements or still tableaux on the stage. The picture it makes.

However, in film, it also includes where the camera is placed, and what the camera does. Is it black and white, or color? or both? Does the camera itself move? Maybe the camera changes from a shot as if you were watching a play, to a shot in which you are looking down from above. Maybe, as in Citizen Kane or The Third Man, the camera skews the perspective of the viewer, slanting your view until it is on an angle. In The Last Picture Show, Ben Johnson's speech out at the reservoir starts out with the camera stationary, but then the camera slowly moves into closeup as he reveals his past love affair. It then slowly moves out when he is done talking about the woman he used to bring to the reservoir for secret meetings.

I think of the camera as the "eye of the beholder", or the audience's perspective. For instance, many directors learn to frame an outdoor shot with the bottom third of the screen devoted to land and the top two thirds devoted to sky. Some switch it up a little, and frame that same shot with two thirds land and one third sky.


Shane - look in the background - two thirds land, one third sky.

In My Darling Clementine, after the shootout, John Ford frames his shot like this:



Ford has framed his shot so that we have only Wyatt Earp and the sky. Why did he do this? Wyatt climbs over the fence and down out of the frame of view, but the camera stays put, looking at empty sky. That is mise en scene.

[MissGoddess]

You should teach this stuff. That was excellent.

[movieman1957]

You both teach us every time you chose to write a commentary on a film.

[JackFavell]

Oh, pshaw.

I've learned more here from you guys than I have through years of reading books about film. I just wish I had an ounce of the skill you guys have at getting to the heart and emotional core of a movie.

[mrsl]

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Thank you so much for the explanation. I never attempt to connect with links because every time I do, I get thrown off the internet, and have to go through the whole process of turning off, then turning on and getting connected, then finally getting connected with SSO. My guy has looked at it several times and cannot figure out why it happens, but it shocks him that it does.

Anyway, I agree about your comments, and Miss G's, Moira, and lzcutter, and a couple more. Those are the people I'm talking about when I say I envy them their gift of speech, and saying what they mean. I say what I like or dislike about performances, but never would even try to speculate about hidden meanings, camera angles and why certain ones are used, etc. I do love reading them here though.
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