Dargo wrote: ↑June 18th, 2023, 11:14 am
Anyone here know or remember if Henry Fonda received this sort of public reaction after the release of Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in the West' and in which he played against type and his image?
(...I'm thinking this might be the most glaring example of such a thing here)
Not that I ever heard.
But I think I remember Bruce Dern saying something about getting grief over his role in The Cowboys.
Yep. Dern tells a funny story about that, in fact. However, in his story it's John Wayne himself who just before the filming of the scene in which Dern kills him, he advises Dern that he's going to receive a lot of heartache from the public about it.
(...well, and as Dern tells it and with the punchline of his story being and as he tells Duke in reply: "Except in Berkeley")
Dargo wrote: ↑June 18th, 2023, 11:14 am
Anyone here know or remember if Henry Fonda received this sort of public reaction after the release of Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in the West' and in which he played against type and his image?
(...I'm thinking this might be the most glaring example of such a thing here)
Not that I ever heard.
But I think I remember Bruce Dern saying something about getting grief over his role in The Cowboys.
Yep. Dern tells a funny story about that, in fact. However, in his story it's John Wayne himself who just before the filming of the scene in which Dern kills him, he advises Dern that he's going to receive a lot of heartache from the public about it.
(...well, and as Dern tells it and with the punchline of his story being and as he tells Duke in reply: "Except in Berkeley")
But I think I remember Bruce Dern saying something about getting grief over his role in The Cowboys.
Yep. Dern tells a funny story about that, in fact. However, in his story it's John Wayne himself who just before the filming of the scene in which Dern kills him, he advises Dern that he's going to receive a lot of heartache from the public about it.
(...well, and as Dern tells it and with the punchline of his story being and as he tells Duke in reply: "Except in Berkeley")
Well, I enjoyed the scene at least.
So, are you now sayin' you attended the University of California at about that time then???
Dargo wrote: ↑June 17th, 2023, 3:27 pm
you DO know why most shrinks BECOME shrinks, don't YA?...uh-huh, it's because they're tryin' to discover why THEY'RE so screwed up!)
Okay. Thanks for the information.
OH, you're quite welcome here, Rick ol' boy!
And so and speaking of "psychology" here, and of course in an effort to get this here thread back on track a bit, I'd like to now discuss something our guitar playing buddy from the sunny climes of SoCal James said in this thing before it got a mite tense around here:
jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 16th, 2023, 2:12 pmLooks like, according to some folks, Jeff D. Sheldrake is the person with the best character traits in The Apartment. Not always, but largely true. Unfortunately, or fortunately.
Basically here I suppose, the "psychology" behind or maybe better said the meaning behind the above comment.
(...and because I STILL don't quite understand what he meant by this, or how the pilandering power broker head of the company exhibited "the best character traits" of any character in this great film and that's so full of wonderfully written and performed characters, and yes humanly flawed ones)
The comment about Jeff D. Sheldrake was a joke. A lame one if you couldn't connect the dots; The point was that for those that view the leading two characters in the film as pathetic (at best) and that tend to have a degree of misogyny, Sheldrake would be the hero of the film.
Re: The Apartment
Posted: June 18th, 2023, 4:31 pm
by Intrepid37
jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 18th, 2023, 4:14 pm
The point was that for those that view the leading two characters in the film as pathetic (at best) and that tend to have a degree of misogyny, Sheldrake would be the hero of the film.
a) I thought Sheldrake was the scumbag of the film.
2) How much misogyny is in "a degree"?
iii) Is regarding Lemmon to be a pathetic simpwimp misogyny? Seems like good sense, but maybe you think it's "a degree" or something.
Re: The Apartment
Posted: June 19th, 2023, 12:15 pm
by Sepiatone
I don't think it fair to consider Lemmon to be a "simpwimp" as lemmon never really played a tough guy macho man very much(if at all) in movies. Of course I know you're referring to his movie character. But still, the character C.C. Baxter isn't as much a wimp as he is a shameless(until the end) corporate climber who was even willing to trade his self esteem for a corner office or key to the executive washroom. Realize. He was using those higher up office managers as much as they were using him. Just that they had the advantage of not having any obligation to Baxter for anything.
Sepiatone
Re: The Apartment
Posted: June 19th, 2023, 4:11 pm
by Intrepid37
Sepiatone wrote: ↑June 19th, 2023, 12:15 pm Of course I know you're referring to his movie character.
Thank goodness for that. I'd be concerned for you if you didn't.
Re: The Apartment
Posted: June 19th, 2023, 4:27 pm
by Dargo
I've always felt, and from the impression I've always gotten I'm not alone in this thinking, that the two big stars from the so-called "Golden Age" and who might best personify the idea of "the average American male" or the "American Everyman" in films, would be Jack Lemmon and Jimmy Stewart.
(...and with the former usually very good at and usually very believably depicting the human flaws inherent in this demographic, and with the latter usually very good at depicting a slightly more idealized version of it)
Re: The Apartment
Posted: June 20th, 2023, 10:32 pm
by Belle
Dargo wrote: ↑June 19th, 2023, 4:27 pm
I've always felt, and from the impression I've always gotten I'm not alone in this thinking, that the two big stars from the so-called "Golden Age" and who might best personify the idea of "the average American male" or the "American Everyman" in films, would be Jack Lemmon and Jimmy Stewart.
(...and with the former usually very good at and usually very believably depicting the human flaws inherent in this demographic, and with the latter usually very good at depicting a slightly more idealized version of it)
Gary Cooper fitted that mould very well, too. He could play any role and was mostly sympathetic, except in "The Naked Edge" - where you weren't sure about him at all. I loved Cooper in "10 North Frederick". Yes, it's a soap but Geraldine Fitzgerald, who played his hard and ambitious wife, was absolutely superb. Suzy Parker and Diane Varsi were both excellent in classy roles.
Gary Cooper was a very classy and elegant man; the American Conrad Veidt!! "Coop" went to 'finishing school' in London. Strange background for an American 'everyman'.
