Gay and Streaming

[Swithin]

To my knowledge, no poster asked TCM to create their LGBT sub-forum. They considered it the appropriate thing to do.

Actually, it was a poster at the old TCM message boards who requested an LGBT sub-forum there, and that poster made a point of letting everyone know. And it was not just any poster, I might add, but probably the most obnoxiously self-aggrandizing regular poster on that site. On more than one occasion, he posted in public threads about the deep, private discussions he had with one of the moderators. This same person regularly antagonized and belittled other posters but would boohoo and threaten to report someone who dared to challenge his perceived cinematic authority.
I chuckle when I remember the time when he thought he had craftily outed me. Geez Louise! You can’t out someone who has never been in!

I think calling my request for a gay sub-forum segregation is offensive. I don't consider myself thin-skinned, or overly sensitive, I just find that line of argument offensive. I hold no grudge against those of you who've used that line, I'm just being honest.

So we'll see what Lomm decides. This is not the kind of issue that can be put to a vote. But I go back to what I wrote earlier: For heaven's sake, WHAT HARM WOULD IT DO?

I appreciate your honesty. I likewise was being honest when I previously said that I find the idea of distinct LGBT sub-forums on media discussion sites offensive.
Yes, I realize they are the “norm” today, but just because something is the norm doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. My sexual orientation (I wish there was a better term) is only one aspect of my humanity albeit an important aspect. I see those kinds of demographically based sub-forums as a step backwards and harmful. And, again if I’m being honest, they make me feel sad and more marginalized. I don’t want to be shoved into the margins!

Thanks Holden,

I'm sure Lomm will make the right decision when he logs back on, and I understand that we have different views on what the right decision may be!

I want to make one further point. You must be aware of the controversy surrounding LGBTQ+ books in public libraries these days. In some parts of the country, library and school boards have demanded that the books should not be in the library at all; in other places, they simply don't want them to be the focus of exhibits, or separate sections. Sometimes they use the "segregation-type" argument. Although that argument may be used by people who mean well, it is also used by people with other agendas.

On Long Island last year, a library board voted that all separate displays of gay-themed books must be removed. There was an outcry, including from Governor Hochul, and the board reversed its decision.

I'm not an activist. I've never been discriminated against because of my sexuality, which is only one part of who I am. When I was younger, I was pretty closeted, although working in the arts from the time I got out of college made it easier to come out. I'm now on an LGBTQ+ committee of my alma mater. The committee consists mostly of much younger men and women. They ask me if I think the situation for gays has improved since I was in college. They seem to think maybe it hasn't improved that much. But I tell them, despite the current challenges, and a resurgence of hate, things are incredibly better now. And of course, thank goodness AIDS isn't the issue that it was...

As you know, when the TCM Board folded, one of the posters there founded a new site. I guess that person is controversial around here. I certainly had my share of arguments with him, but I don't remember what they were about, and they never sunk to the level that I experienced from one poster here. But, although I frequent the SSO more than his site, I want to share a link, so that you can see how a separate LGBT section can exist, even though those subjects can also be addressed in other sections of that Board. Is this such a terrible thing? And it is just SO convenient, to be able to access the discussions and various gay-themed threads this way!

https://classicfilmtvradio.freeforums.n ... d/28/lgbtq

Btw, who was the poster who lobbied for the LGBT forum at TCM? You can PM me, if you're not comfortable mentioning it here. I'm curious. I was on that board from 2006 to its close, and I don't remember that.

[I Love Melvin]

To my knowledge, no poster asked TCM to create their LGBT sub-forum. They considered it the appropriate thing to do.

Actually, it was a poster at the old TCM message boards who requested an LGBT sub-forum there, and that poster made a point of letting everyone know. And it was not just any poster, I might add, but probably the most obnoxiously self-aggrandizing regular poster on that site. On more than one occasion, he posted in public threads about the deep, private discussions he had with one of the moderators. This same person regularly antagonized and belittled other posters but would boohoo and threaten to report someone who dared to challenge his perceived cinematic authority.
I chuckle when I remember the time when he thought he had craftily outed me. Geez Louise! You can’t out someone who has never been in!

I think calling my request for a gay sub-forum segregation is offensive. I don't consider myself thin-skinned, or overly sensitive, I just find that line of argument offensive. I hold no grudge against those of you who've used that line, I'm just being honest.

So we'll see what Lomm decides. This is not the kind of issue that can be put to a vote. But I go back to what I wrote earlier: For heaven's sake, WHAT HARM WOULD IT DO?

I appreciate your honesty. I likewise was being honest when I previously said that I find the idea of distinct LGBT sub-forums on media discussion sites offensive.
Yes, I realize they are the “norm” today, but just because something is the norm doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. My sexual orientation (I wish there was a better term) is only one aspect of my humanity albeit an important aspect. I see those kinds of demographically based sub-forums as a step backwards and harmful. And, again if I’m being honest, they make me feel sad and more marginalized. I don’t want to be shoved into the margins!

I see a sub-forum as more fulfilling an organizational need. This very thread is a good example. We're well into five pages now and there have only been a handful of posts on the OP's topic because everyone's ideas on all things "Gay" have only one place to go. For a thread intended to be tailored to a specific topic it's bursting at the seams and shouldn't have to carry the weight of all that. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that so many people are participating but some of us would like to participate on a more granular level and be able to stick to the topic at hand. You're right that it wouldn't absolutely necessitate a separate forum to do that, but I think the chances of it happening would be improved if there were a centralized place where topics could be broken down. There could even be a generalized Thoughts on "Gay" thread to accommodate the kind of broad-ranging discussion happening here, while giving others the chance to focus on specifics. I don't see a sub-forum as segregation; I see it as an enhanced opportunity for expression. I think it's been established that none of us is entitled to speak for "gays" so I wouldn't claim to either, but neither can I share your feeling that a sub-forum would be offensive to gays. There's plenty out there these days to offend us so I myself would be in no rush to add this to the list.

As for "sexual orientation", I've found myself, without really even realizing it, using "sexual nature". I think it works on a descriptive level and it's also a nice little fu to anyone arguing on the grounds that it's "unnatural".

**********
God's Own Country (2017)



This one has been streaming for quite a while now, but anyone who hasn't caught it yet should. Josh O'Connor is emerging as one of the most talented and versatile British actors and anyone who's seen him as Charles on The Crown may be surprised by what he was able to do here. He plays the son of a Yorkshire farmer who's so isolated and locked-down emotionally that he can't even show a moment of interest, let alone happiness. When a Romanian worker (Alec Secareanu) is added as a helping hand, that begins to change through a long, torturous process, making the final moments a joy to behold. It's beautifully made and acted and should be of interest to film fans in general.

[Swithin]

I first saw Josh O'Connor in a supporting role in a play called Versailles, by Peter Gill, a lesser-known but important British playwright, partly specializing in gay themes. O'Connor was brilliant, and moving, in his small role. I'm glad to see he has become successful, and I think God's Own Country is a great film.

Here are two reviews of Versailles and a photo of O'Connor from the play, which was presented at the Donmar Warehouse in London in 2014. The Variety review mentions O'Connor.

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/ ... ton-review

https://variety.com/2014/legit/reviews/ ... 201124639/

[Lomm]

OK, so having looked this thread over now, I'm still torn because there seem to be some valid reasons on both sides of the equation. On the one hand, as a longtime supporter of LGBTQ rights, I'm inclined to create this forum just to show said support. On the other hand, the point about segregating films that may have LGBTQ themes but otherwise are not really focused on the topic is also somewhat valid, IMO. Just because a character is gay, does it go in this section? Or does it have to be a film with more of a focus, such as, say, The Birdcage?

I will follow this topic for another day and see what tomorrow brings.

[Swithin]

OK, so having looked this thread over now, I'm still torn because there seem to be some valid reasons on both sides of the equation. On the one hand, as a longtime supporter of LGBTQ rights, I'm inclined to create this forum just to show said support. On the other hand, the point about segregating films that may have LGBTQ themes but otherwise are not really focused on the topic is also somewhat valid, IMO. Just because a character is gay, does it go in this section? Or does it have to be a film with more of a focus, such as, say, The Birdcage?

I will follow this topic for another day and see what tomorrow brings.

I wish the old TCM site was still up, so that you could see how it wasn't an issue there and how rich the sub-forum was. Obviously, we have many threads in various parts of this board where the same film/person/tv show etc. may be mentioned/discussed. I don't think that has been a problem.

But here's how it shakes down on two other film sites, and how a variety of topics can be developed and accessed conveniently.

https://classicfilmtvradio.freeforums.n ... d/28/lgbtq

https://moviechat.org (in the "Genre Zone")

[Dargo]

Not that I really care one way or the other about this or what the ultimate result will be in regard to a separate sub-forum being created or not, but what I kind'a think makes this somewhat of a moot point at THIS website in particular is that with the main page consisting of ALL the various separate sub-forum threads being listed upon it and that are currently active and being discussed within, this affords one the opportunity to see threads that run the gamut of every sub-forum within this website. And so, once alerted to them, one can then choose to participate in them or not.

Now, maybe this would be a bigger deal to me IF I went to the list of sub-forums more than I do, and which is very very seldom in my case.

(...oh, and ANOTHER thing I've been wondering about here is why I'M the ONLY one who has so far mentioned LIPSTICK LESBIANS in this baby???) LOL

[Swithin]

Not that I really care one way or the other about this or what the ultimate result will be in regard to a separate sub-forum being created or not, but what I kind'a think makes this somewhat of a moot point at THIS website in particular is that with the main page consisting of ALL the various separate sub-forum threads being listed upon it and that are currently active and being discussed within, this affords one the opportunity to see threads that run the gamut of every sub-forum within this website. And so, once alerted to them, one can then choose to participate in them or not.

Now, maybe this would be a bigger deal to me IF I went to listing of sub-forums more than I do, and which is very very seldom in my case.

(...oh, and ANOTHER thing I've been wondering about here is why I'M the ONLY one who has so far mentioned LIPSTICK LESBIANS in this baby???) LOL

Dargo, even Lomm had to PM me, to ask me for the link to this thread, because he couldn't find it. A sub-forum would be a nice place to gather a bunch of gay-themed threads as they develop, it would be a nice enhancement. It's not about segregating people, it's about quick access to a variety of threads which would fall with the LGBTQ+ sphere.

[Dargo]

Not that I really care one way or the other about this or what the ultimate result will be in regard to a separate sub-forum being created or not, but what I kind'a think makes this somewhat of a moot point at THIS website in particular is that with the main page consisting of ALL the various separate sub-forum threads being listed upon it and that are currently active and being discussed within, this affords one the opportunity to see threads that run the gamut of every sub-forum within this website. And so, once alerted to them, one can then choose to participate in them or not.

Now, maybe this would be a bigger deal to me IF I went to listing of sub-forums more than I do, and which is very very seldom in my case.

(...oh, and ANOTHER thing I've been wondering about here is why I'M the ONLY one who has so far mentioned LIPSTICK LESBIANS in this baby???) LOL

Dargo, even Lomm had to PM me, to ask me for the link to this thread, because he couldn't find it. A sub-forum would be a nice place to gather a bunch of gay-themed threads as they develop, it would be a nice enhancement. It's not about segregating people, it's about quick access to a variety of threads which would fall with the LGBTQ+ sphere.

Okay, decently made point here, Swithin.

However, and whenever I can't seem to locate a certain thread that has come to mind and have a mind to add a thought to it and can not seem to find on page-1 of the main page listings, I then go to page-2 and so forth until I do find it.

(...however again, I suppose this last point of yours here would make it easier for someone to directly locate such a specifically themed thread and/or one which hasn't been active for some time, wouldn't it)

[Swithin]

Not that I really care one way or the other about this or what the ultimate result will be in regard to a separate sub-forum being created or not, but what I kind'a think makes this somewhat of a moot point at THIS website in particular is that with the main page consisting of ALL the various separate sub-forum threads being listed upon it and that are currently active and being discussed within, this affords one the opportunity to see threads that run the gamut of every sub-forum within this website. And so, once alerted to them, one can then choose to participate in them or not.

Now, maybe this would be a bigger deal to me IF I went to listing of sub-forums more than I do, and which is very very seldom in my case.

(...oh, and ANOTHER thing I've been wondering about here is why I'M the ONLY one who has so far mentioned LIPSTICK LESBIANS in this baby???) LOL

Dargo, even Lomm had to PM me, to ask me for the link to this thread, because he couldn't find it. A sub-forum would be a nice place to gather a bunch of gay-themed threads as they develop, it would be a nice enhancement. It's not about segregating people, it's about quick access to a variety of threads which would fall with the LGBTQ+ sphere.

Okay, decently made point here, Swithin.

However, and whenever I can't seem to locate a certain thread that has come to mind and have a mind to add a thought to it and can not seem to find on page-1 of the main page listings, I then go to page-2 and so forth until I do find it.

(...however again, I suppose this last point of yours here would make it easier for someone to directly locate such a specifically themed thread and/or one which hasn't been active for some time, wouldn't it)

And we're not just talking about one thread, but a section with a number of different threads would reside, under the heading of LGBTQ+.

I actually like the fact that a busy thread will percolate to the top, but when it's not near the top, sometimes it's very difficult to remember what sub-forum it might be in. But I'm not talking about one thread, but a sub-forum for, potentially, many threads. (See examples of links I gave above.)

[jamesjazzguitar]

I always use the unread-post option (just like I did at the TCM forum). Therefor it doesn't matter one way or the other if there are multiple sub-forums and underneath them, threads with post I haven't read. I go to the unread-threads\post I'm interested in and after that use the "mark all threads read" function to clear the slate. Rince and repeat.

The only thing that might be confusing is the solid question Lommn asked using The Birdcage as an example. E.g. if I was posting about The Big Combo and the two gay hoods (Fante and Mingo), as well as other non-gay related points about the film, what sub-forum should I use? The crime\noir one or this new one?

Anyhow, what ever happens it will be easy to work with IF one uses the functions I recommend above.

At the old TCM site most users wanted 95% of threads to be under "General Discussion" because they didn't wish to use the unread-post function (something I never understood).

[Swithin]

The only thing that might be confusing is the solid question Lommn asked using The Birdcage as an example. E.g. if I was posting about The Big Combo and the two gay hoods (Fante and Mingo), as well as other non-gay related points about the film, what sub-forum should I use? The crime\noir one or this new one?

An OP can decide where to start a new thread. Posters can decide where they want to write about a specific film, artists, TV show, etc. Just to give one example, there's a thread about The Two Mrs. Carrolls in the "Film Noir and Crime" section. That film is also discussed in the "Musings..." section and in "Noir Alley," and possibly elsewhere as well. Discussions of specific films take place in a variety of places.

[Lomm]

The only thing that might be confusing is the solid question Lommn asked using The Birdcage as an example. E.g. if I was posting about The Big Combo and the two gay hoods (Fante and Mingo), as well as other non-gay related points about the film, what sub-forum should I use? The crime\noir one or this new one?

An OP can decide where to start a new thread. Posters can decide where they want to write about a specific film, artists, TV show, etc. Just to give one example, there's a thread about The Two Mrs. Carrolls in the "Film Noir and Crime" section. That film is also discussed in the "Musings..." section and in "Noir Alley," and possibly elsewhere as well. Discussions of specific films take place in a variety of places.

This works for me and makes sense. There is a risk of dividing discussion and missed conversation with two threads on the same film (as the example above) but it's not likely to be all that common, and as noted it would still show up in the top of the forum recent topics. The new forum has been created, so someone please try it out and be sure you can post!

[HoldenIsHere]

The only thing that might be confusing is the solid question Lommn asked using The Birdcage as an example. E.g. if I was posting about The Big Combo and the two gay hoods (Fante and Mingo), as well as other non-gay related points about the film, what sub-forum should I use? The crime\noir one or this new one?

An OP can decide where to start a new thread. Posters can decide where they want to write about a specific film, artists, TV show, etc. Just to give one example, there's a thread about The Two Mrs. Carrolls in the "Film Noir and Crime" section. That film is also discussed in the "Musings..." section and in "Noir Alley," and possibly elsewhere as well. Discussions of specific films take place in a variety of places.

This works for me and makes sense. There is a risk of dividing discussion and missed conversation with two threads on the same film (as the example above) but it's not likely to be all that common, and as noted it would still show up in the top of the forum recent topics. The new forum has been created, so someone please try it out and be sure you can post!

As I previously stated a few times, I strongly opposed the creation of a separate LGBTQ+ sub-forum here at the SSO.

As a member of that group, I find a segregated sub-forum on media discussion boards based on that demographic group demeaning, disrespectful and a step backwards.
I realize that LGBTQ+ forums are common on other movie sites, but that does not make them right.
It would be the same as having a separate "Black" forum or "Jewish" forum.
There is no such thing as an LGBTQ+ film!

(I also hate the LGBTQ+ label -- I would never used it to describe myself -- but that is a different discussion.)

Some asked the question what "harm" having such a forum here would do.
Well, as a gay person, it offends me and now I have to see it here.
So one harm is that its presence reduces the enjoyment I will have participating here.

I definitely will not be contributing to the new SSO sub-forum just as I don't contribute to any such forums on other sites.
Yes, that will mean extra work for me to check the forum that a thread is in before I post . . .

[Swithin]

As I previously stated a few times, I strongly opposed the creation of a separate LGBTQ+ sub-forum here at the SSO.

As a member of that group, I find a segregated sub-forum on media discussion boards based on that demographic group demeaning, disrespectful and a step backwards.
I realize that LGBTQ+ forums are common on other movie sites, but that does not make them right.
It would be the same as having a separate "Black" forum or "Jewish" forum.
There is no such thing as an LGBTQ+ film!

(I also hate the LGBTQ+ label -- I would never used it to describe myself -- but that is a different discussion.)

Some asked the question what "harm" having such a forum here would do.
Well, as a gay person, it offends me and now I have to see it here.
So one harm is that its presence reduces the enjoyment I will have participating here.

I definitely will not be contributing to the new SSO sub-forum just as I don't contribute to any such forums on other sites.
Yes, that will mean extra work for me to check the forum that a thread is in before I post . . .

I'm sorry you feel that way Holden. It shouldn't be too difficult for you, since I doubt whether the gay forum will be a very busy place, but I think it's important to have one. But you enhance whatever forum your posts appear in, so the loss will be ours.

[I Love Melvin]

As I previously stated a few times, I strongly opposed the creation of a separate LGBTQ+ sub-forum here at the SSO.

As a member of that group, I find a segregated sub-forum on media discussion boards based on that demographic group demeaning, disrespectful and a step backwards.
I realize that LGBTQ+ forums are common on other movie sites, but that does not make them right.
It would be the same as having a separate "Black" forum or "Jewish" forum.
There is no such thing as an LGBTQ+ film!

(I also hate the LGBTQ+ label -- I would never used it to describe myself -- but that is a different discussion.)

Some asked the question what "harm" having such a forum here would do.
Well, as a gay person, it offends me and now I have to see it here.
So one harm is that its presence reduces the enjoyment I will have participating here.

I definitely will not be contributing to the new SSO sub-forum just as I don't contribute to any such forums on other sites.
Yes, that will mean extra work for me to check the forum that a thread is in before I post . . .

I'm sorry you feel that way Holden. It shouldn't be too difficult for you, since I doubt whether the gay forum will be a very busy place, but I think it's important to have one. But you enhance whatever forum your posts appear in, so the loss will be ours.

I'm new to this site (not through lack of trying) but I hope I still have the right to speak about this. I also want to express regret that it's affected you this way, Holden. I was worried that this had the potential to become a win/lose scenario and for you it seems to be just that. I sincerely hope it won't reduce your enjoyment in the long run. A post has been made and it's clearly identified as coming from the new sub-forum, so that should make posts all the easier to avoid for you and anyone else who's antipathetic or just not interested. I expect that Swithin is right that it won't be super busy. The number of threads and posts will depend on the number of people who want to step up and contribute, so we'll see. The sub-forum at TCM had many pages of threads and a number of active participants, but the most active ones haven't transitioned here or to anywhere else I'm aware of, so it may be a slow build. But thank you to everyone who's been in favor of this or is at least willing to allow it to happen. Those of us who do self-identify as LGBTQ+ can sometimes, even these days still, feel out of the mainstream in subtle ways, so a gesture like this is appreciated.