I Just Watched...

[jamesjazzguitar]

Does anyone recall Ben's closing comments after Guys and Dolls. I saw the intro but only watched the first half of the film.

In Ben's intro he appeared to imply Sinatra was fine with Brando getting the role and top billing in this musical even with his limited musical talent, but he would explain more about that after the film. Of course, maybe Ben was just joking since what I found on Wiki indicates Frank wasn't happy about Brando getting the part:

"Frank Sinatra had coveted the role of Sky Masterson and his relations with Brando were strained. Hollywood critic James Bacon quotes Sinatra telling director Joe Mankiewicz, "When Mumbles is through rehearsing, I'll come out." Sinatra had been considered for the role of Terry Malloy in On the Waterfront; both roles went to Brando".

As for the film: Decades ago, when I first found out about this film, I really wondered about the casting of Brando and Simmons since both where not known for their roles in musicals. Simmons is great, but I still find Brando to only be OK. (and since Gene Kelly was the first choice for the movie, this is a case where an actor was chosen mostly due to their box-office potential). I know that Robert Alda had the role in the Broadway play, but I can see why a studio wouldn't make him the lead of such a production, but Kelly still had major musical box office appeal.

[Andree]

LMREO!!!!!!! I must've missed that one!

I always get a kick out of it, no matter how many times I've seen it.
It's at the very end just before the credits. I likely forgot a few
words of Tragg's whole beatnik speech. IIRC, Bobby Troup played
the beatnik pianist and Frankie Laine was the comic. Beatniks rarely
came off very well in PM.

[Andree]

Guys and Dolls makes the original West Side Story look like a
neo-realist movie.

[CinemaInternational]

Does anyone recall Ben's closing comments after Guys and Dolls. I saw the intro but only watched the first half of the film.

In Ben's intro he appeared to imply Sinatra was fine with Brando getting the role and top billing in this musical even with his limited musical talent, but he would explain more about that after the film. Of course, maybe Ben was just joking since what I found on Wiki indicates Frank wasn't happy about Brando getting the part:

"Frank Sinatra had coveted the role of Sky Masterson and his relations with Brando were strained. Hollywood critic James Bacon quotes Sinatra telling director Joe Mankiewicz, "When Mumbles is through rehearsing, I'll come out." Sinatra had been considered for the role of Terry Malloy in On the Waterfront; both roles went to Brando".

As for the film: Decades ago, when I first found out about this film, I really wondered about the casting of Brando and Simmons since both where not known for their roles in musicals. Simmons is great, but I still find Brando to only be OK. (and since Gene Kelly was the first choice for the movie, this is a case where an actor was chosen mostly due to their box-office potential). I know that Robert Alda had the role in the Broadway play, but I can see why a studio wouldn't make him the lead of such a production, but Kelly still had major musical box office appeal.

Checked it on watch TCM for you. Ben said that Sinatra reluctantly took the supporting part in Guys and Dolls, but it lead to the simmering tension between him and Brando, coming from Sinatra's getting sacked from On the Waterfront, to spill over, due to Brando's method acting technique, his desire to do multiple takes, and his lack of singing prowess. Though the set was tense, Sinatra didn't publicly air his feelings until 4 years after the film was released.

[KayFrancis]

Years ago when Guys and Dolls aired on TCM, one of the hosts ( it may have been RO ) in an intro or outro talked about how Brando knowing that Sinatra hated cheesecake, purposely flubbed his line over and over so that Frank had to keep eating the cheesecake until he gagged.
Sinatra may not have liked Brando much, but the feeling was mutual.

[kingrat]

To discuss something more interesting: Last night I watched the first half of The Iceman Cometh. This is from the American Film Theater project that filmed eight plays with various stars in them. Whatever complaints I could make about the play--such as that the Brit and the Boer are too Boer-ing--are unimportant next to the clash of Robert Ryan as the disillusioned ex-anarchist Larry Slade and Lee Marvin as the salesman Hickey whose visits to the saloon are what the other inmate of the saloon live for.

Some people lamented that the movie star Lee Marvin was cast rather than Jason Robards, Jr., who had played the role on Broadway, but I emphatically disagree. Marvin's charisma, his utter alpha maleness, his ability to walk in a room and own it, are what Hickey must have. The director, John Frankenheimer, also considered Marlon Brando (who would probably have been awful) and Gene Hackman, who would have been good, but Lee Marvin was his top choice.

Hickey knows that Larry Slade will be his toughest antagonist. The moments of Slade trying to figure out what Hickey is up to, while Hickey begins the process of testing Slade's vulnerabilities are really wonderful. Every shot of Robert Ryan seems to show a lifetime of experience. He would die not long after filming.

Lee Marvin's screen persona was perfect for the role of Hickley. See the vet Ryan and the at his peak Marvin doing their dance is something special.

While I assume we both are not saying Robards wasn't up to the tasks, I can't think of another actor, with as much box office appeal being a better fit than Marvin. (and box office appeal was necessary to get people to go to the theater to see a movie that was over 3 hours long).

There is a superb review of The Iceman Cometh by Pauline Kael that is easy to find online. This is simply one of the best reviews she ever wrote, with great insight into how the strengths and the weaknesses of the play sometimes help each other out. She is one who laments that Robards did not get to play Hickey, but nonetheless this is a great review.

For me, Robards' performances run the gamut from great (Long Day's Journey Into Night) to godawful (Brutus in Julius Caesar). He would probably have been fine on screen as Hickey, but he lacks the charisma of Lee Marvin, and I doubt he would have had the great chemistry that Marvin has with Robert Ryan as the two match moves in what is in effect a duel to the death.

There's eloquent praise of Lee Marvin's performance in Stanley Kauffmann's Living Images. I'm not sure if the original review in the New Republic can be found online.

[Fedya]

As for Lume, that has been around a while, enough to spark a major deodorant company to develop/produce/market an “all body” product in less than a year. We have been shaming body odor to the point of people poisoning themselves in attempt to cover “unpleasant" odor. I do believe the Talc Powder lawsuit was won by the Public.

It was won by the Class Action Lawyers.

That said, I will spritz Chanel on occasion and that hippie staple Patchouli when hiking as an insect repellant.

Did you meet Cornel Wilde on a train, too?

[jimimac71]

Some of us guys love it when the ladies wear leather.
You know, "that new truck smell."

[jamesjazzguitar]

I will put in a good word for Arty Tragg. I never got the impression that he loathed
Perry and Paul. Naturally they were on opposite sides, but for the most part Tragg
kept his cool. In some episodes he would come to Perry's office at the end and pass
along something that had made Burger mad and all of them would have a good laugh
at that. He was basically going behind Burger's back and telling tales out of school.
One of Tragg's funniest scenes was when he came to Perry's office at the end of a trial
that involved beatniks and he was leaving he said something like Don't crowd me granny
(referring to Della). I'm one of the hip ones. Dig? See you later, daddy-o. And Tragg was
much more interesting than the vanilla on white bread duo of Anderson and Drumm.

LMREO!!!!!!! I must've missed that one!

The beatnik episode that Andree is referencing is "The Case of the Jaded Joker", in which Big Sleep gal Martha Vickers plays Sheila Hayes. This was from season 2 in 1959. I must have seen it 20 times and it is a hoot. There are a few pot references in this one and as well as two coffee house scenes (the place 50 beatnik stoners would go that didn't serve booze). It is always funny to see how up-tight 50s and 60s TV shows would show this type of counter-culture.

Hopefully you can see it someday. And yes, that Tragg daddy-o line leaves Perry and Delta doing a double take.

[Bronxgirl48]

I think that describes a certain public figure pretty well, Bronxie!

Where is Henry Fonda when we need him? (FAIL SAFE, THE BEST MAN)

[Bronxgirl48]

THE PINK PANTHER never gets old.

[jimimac71]

THE PINK PANTHER never gets old.

Blake Edwards never gets old!

[Bronxgirl48]

Agree!

[Detective Jim McLeod]

Some of us guys love it when the ladies wear leather.
You know, "that new truck smell."

[Bronxgirl48]

Who else enjoyed the cheapjack Monogram WWII propaganda "thriller" I ESCAPED FROM THE GESTAPO? Dean Jagger (when he still had hair, but it was probably a rug) plays a forger unwittingly involved with a drab bunch of B-movie Nazi saboteurs in hard g "Los Angle-eez" headed by John Carradine. We know the group is foreign because they don't, er, I mean do not, speak with contractions. The motley crew is holed up in a room attached to an amusement arcade where average Americans are strolling around eating cotton candy, oblivious to what is going on behind their patriotic backs.

While all the humdrum "intrigue" is going on, there are some half-hearted but not unwelcome stylistic noir flourishes. These unfortunately cannot elevate the entire production into anything other than a tepid exploitative bargain basement programmer.

Interesting dialogue: "Mendelssohn! I haven't heard him since the Reichstag fire"