I Just Watched...

Discussion of programming on TCM.
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TikiSoo
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by TikiSoo »

Lorna wrote: March 29th, 2024, 12:44 pm
even though it's directed by MICHAEL CURTIZ, it's not good, and that is largely due to JOHN BARRYMORE who is not good in his part and clearly only about 30% committed
AND I'M not entirely mad at JOHN for not giving his all, because this movie is pretty much a shameless retread of SVENGALI without the interesting sets- and he had JUST MADE THAT MOVIE WITH THE SAME COSTAR A FEW MONTHS BEFORE.
(snipped)
there is a surprising appearance early on from both a very young FRANKIE DARROW who has a real STAR QUALITY

SPOILERISH there is also a surprise AXE MURDER in this and the obvious and blunt use of COCAINE as a plot device
Haha one of the reasons I love Barrymore- he is always outrageous, even when he’s pouting.

I am also a big Frankie Darro fan and saw how he enraptured my teen girl when we watched Wild Boys Of The Road together. I love Darro’s facial expressions &how he uses his whole body to convey emotion. Acrobatic. Cagney also had that quality.

Love to see drug use in classic film-so demonized! OTOH, I never find sloppy drunks comic relief in a movie-too tragic really.
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CinemaInternational
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by CinemaInternational »

TikiSoo wrote: March 29th, 2024, 4:29 pm
Lorna wrote: March 29th, 2024, 12:44 pm
even though it's directed by MICHAEL CURTIZ, it's not good, and that is largely due to JOHN BARRYMORE who is not good in his part and clearly only about 30% committed
AND I'M not entirely mad at JOHN for not giving his all, because this movie is pretty much a shameless retread of SVENGALI without the interesting sets- and he had JUST MADE THAT MOVIE WITH THE SAME COSTAR A FEW MONTHS BEFORE.
(snipped)
there is a surprising appearance early on from both a very young FRANKIE DARROW who has a real STAR QUALITY

SPOILERISH there is also a surprise AXE MURDER in this and the obvious and blunt use of COCAINE as a plot device
Haha one of the reasons I love Barrymore- he is always outrageous, even when he’s pouting.

I am also a big Frankie Darro fan and saw how he enraptured my teen girl when we watched Wild Boys Of The Road together. I love Darro’s facial expressions &how he uses his whole body to convey emotion. Acrobatic. Cagney also had that quality.

Love to see drug use in classic film-so demonized! OTOH, I never find sloppy drunks comic relief in a movie-too tragic really.
There was one film in the classic era where drug use was used for comic effect: 1932's Jewel Robbery where William Powell played a thief who gave the guards what seem to be marijuana cigarettes. It's a very odd scene for 1932.
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Masha
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Masha »

TikiSoo wrote: March 29th, 2024, 4:29 pm
Love to see drug use in classic film-so demonized!
Are you familiar with: The Mystery of the Leaping Fish (1916)? I feel that it falls a little short of demonizing drugs. It stars Douglas Fairbanks as Coke Ennyday. Hint: The 'Coke' did not refer to a soft drink.

I am sorry to say that the only decent print I can find of it is on: YouTube. It has been restored but they added a godawful soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8-LPlN4kcU
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HoldenIsHere
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by HoldenIsHere »

Swithin wrote: March 28th, 2024, 3:44 am As an older gay man, I use the word "queer" in the way that African Americans may use the "N" word. I'm on the alumni committee of my university and also work with young actors and find the word "queer" is used by younger men almost as much as they use the word "gay." I don't think straight people would be comfortable using it.

I don't think the word "pansy" is used anymore. The gay lyricist Lorenz Hart used it in one of his best songs, ca. 1930:

"Ten cents a dance, pansies and rough guys, tough guys who tear my gown..."

"Sometimes I think, I found my hero, but it's a queer romance..."
The song "Ten Cents A Dance" is featured in the third season episode of THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW "Rhoda The Beautiful," written by Treva Silverman.
Rhoda has entered the Ms. Hempel Contest, a beauty contest for employees at the department store where she works.
As Mary and Phyllis are helping Rhoda pick out dresses, Phyllis reveals that she was once in a beauty contest and won the talent portion.
She then proceeds to reprise her winning performance of "Ten Cents A Dance" in Rhoda's apartment.

"Pansies" in the lyrics was changed to "softies," but "queer romance" was retained.

I love the look on Rhoda's face during one of Phyllis's moments!

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HoldenIsHere
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by HoldenIsHere »

kingrat wrote: March 28th, 2024, 12:09 am Holden, I think it's fair to say that some older gay men still find the word "queer" extremely offensive if applied to them. The assumption that "queer" is an acceptable substitute for, say, "LGBT," is ageist, in my opinion.

I have asked other people what the "new improved" meaning of "queer" is, but everyone else seems as mystified as I am. A few years ago a new city council member mentioned twelve times in a brief article that she was a "queer woman." In context, this seemed to mean either "a lesbian who's too cool for school" or "a bisexual whose **** doesn't stink." That may not be the official meaning, however.
kingrat, this goes to show that the notion that “words can never hurt us” is false. Words can hurt and have been used to hurt and mock. I like the idea of taking power away from those who have used the word “queer” to demean people and make them feel “less than” so I do use it as a neutral self-identifier. But I know that some people have a hard time separating “queer” from its history as a weaponized pejorative so I would never use it in the presence of someone if I’m aware they can’t accept the neutral meaning.

I admit that I prefer “queer” to LGBT as an umbrella term. I actually find the alphabet soup offensive. To me LGBT sounds like a disease or a syndrome and has the same clinical connotation as “homosexual.” Queer, on the other hand, connotes uniqueness in a positive way, at least to me it does.

Growing up in the 1990s, “gay” actually had more negative associations than “queer.” In elementary school and junior high, “gay” was used to mean “lame.” So, if you called something “gay” (as in “That’s so gay!”), it meant it was dumb or pathetic. I’m sure most kids who used the word in that way didn’t connect it to “sexual orientation,” but someone (or multiple someones) consciously decided to start using “gay” as a term for something that was “not cool.” I’m fairly confident that the people who started that trend chose “gay” because of its association with people with same-sex romantic attractions not because of the original “happy” meaning of the word. As a kid, I never heard “queer” used as an insult in real-life although I heard it a lot in mainstream movies from the 1980s, where it was presented as okay for the “good guys” to use “queer” (as well as “fag”) as a pejorative. The term “new queer cinema” was coined by critic B. Ruby Rich (who’s the current editor of FILM QUARTERLY) in the 1990s with “queer” used unapologetically as a positive term for the movies that she considered part of that movement.
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TikiSoo
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Re: I Just Watched...

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HoldenIsHere wrote: March 30th, 2024, 1:33 am this goes to show that the notion that “words can never hurt us” is false. Words can hurt and have been used to hurt and mock.
(snipped)
I admit that I prefer “queer” to LGBT as an umbrella term. I actually find the alphabet soup offensive.
Queer, on the other hand, connotes uniqueness in a positive way, at least to me it does.
(snipped)
I’m fairly confident that the people who started that trend chose “gay” because of its association with people with same-sex romantic attractions not because of the original “happy” meaning of the word.
Wow thanks for succinctly verbalizing your opinion about those various terms. I never thought about it before, but it’s my opinion too.

I won’t use the alphabet soup term because it’s clinical & lumps everyone together. If it means “everyone” why even have a word?
I HATED when kids would say “that’s so gay” as if it was an insult. I’d roll my eyes & think 'you don’t even know what you’re saying”.
kingrat
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by kingrat »

HoldenIsHere wrote: March 30th, 2024, 1:33 am
kingrat wrote: March 28th, 2024, 12:09 am Holden, I think it's fair to say that some older gay men still find the word "queer" extremely offensive if applied to them. The assumption that "queer" is an acceptable substitute for, say, "LGBT," is ageist, in my opinion.

I have asked other people what the "new improved" meaning of "queer" is, but everyone else seems as mystified as I am. A few years ago a new city council member mentioned twelve times in a brief article that she was a "queer woman." In context, this seemed to mean either "a lesbian who's too cool for school" or "a bisexual whose **** doesn't stink." That may not be the official meaning, however.
kingrat, this goes to show that the notion that “words can never hurt us” is false. Words can hurt and have been used to hurt and mock. I like the idea of taking power away from those who have used the word “queer” to demean people and make them feel “less than” so I do use it as a neutral self-identifier. But I know that some people have a hard time separating “queer” from its history as a weaponized pejorative so I would never use it in the presence of someone if I’m aware they can’t accept the neutral meaning.

I admit that I prefer “queer” to LGBT as an umbrella term. I actually find the alphabet soup offensive. To me LGBT sounds like a disease or a syndrome and has the same clinical connotation as “homosexual.” Queer, on the other hand, connotes uniqueness in a positive way, at least to me it does.

Growing up in the 1990s, “gay” actually had more negative associations than “queer.” In elementary school and junior high, “gay” was used to mean “lame.” So, if you called something “gay” (as in “That’s so gay!”), it meant it was dumb or pathetic. I’m sure most kids who used the word in that way didn’t connect it to “sexual orientation,” but someone (or multiple someones) consciously decided to start using “gay” as a term for something that was “not cool.” I’m fairly confident that the people who started that trend chose “gay” because of its association with people with same-sex romantic attractions not because of the original “happy” meaning of the word. As a kid, I never heard “queer” used as an insult in real-life although I heard it a lot in mainstream movies from the 1980s, where it was presented as okay for the “good guys” to use “queer” (as well as “fag”) as a pejorative. The term “new queer cinema” was coined by critic B. Ruby Rich (who’s the current editor of FILM QUARTERLY) in the 1990s with “queer” used unapologetically as a positive term for the movies that she considered part of that movement.
Thanks, Holden. Much of this is generational. I have no problem with the word "homosexual" because I have no problem with the related terms "heterosexual" and "bisexual." "Gay" spread through the mainstream public largely because of newspaper headlines: it takes up so much less space.

To use loathsome twenty-first century academese (forgive me, Lord), "queer" is a term that "privileges" the false narrative that same-sex attraction is somehow odd or curious or unusual rather than something commonplace. That was Lorna's point, too.

You're absolutely right that when movies had a new freedom of expression (late 60s, 70s, etc.), one of the first manifestations was the use of derogatory terms for gays and lesbians.
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TikiSoo
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by TikiSoo »

Based upon conversation here, I borrowed THE BEST OF EVERYTHING 1959 from the library and watched it the other night. Whew-still catching my breath!

I really like catty melodrama, MILDRED PIERCE and BOLD & BEAUTIFUL are two of my favorites. This movie falls in the category but with absolutely NO redeeming qualities except as a comedy of tropes.

This is a story of a young 20ish girl taking a job in a high power NYC Publishing Company, trying not to be swallowed alive since her boss is a mature Joan Crawford! She takes an apartment with two other office girls so we get to see how their lives are ruined by every man they come in contact with.

This movie contains EVERY trope about how men take advantage of women and I have to believe it’s their punishment for attempting to be independent working girls instead of marrying/having babies right out of High School.

Each man that comes into their lives treats them like a piece of meat and none of them see it coming, so are completely devastated:
• The lecherous older Executive who thinks it’s OK to kiss/touch/anything he can to innocent ingenues. Everyone KNOWS he’s like that & everyone looks the other way.
• The steady bf who is separated by job/distance. Instead of waiting for her, hastily marries a more “available” girl and breaks up by phone call.
• The Director of hit plays who “dates” the aspiring actress who tragically believes he loves her for her outstanding acting talents.
• The charming guy who coerces a very innocent/gullible girl into believing she is his “only” one, gets her pregnant. She believes he’s picking her up to marry her when he’s really taking her for an abortion.

All with Queen Bee-otch Joan Crawford as the cruelest of bosses. She’s so mean & over-the-top you can’t help laugh at her outrageous demands, thinking you’ve worked for people like that before-although none of it would be acceptable in today’s business world. Ah, we have come so far.

This movie seems to be a “primer” for any young girl who was brought up in a safe, nurturing environment with zero knowledge of how boys/men think. These girls just fall for these guys hook, line & sinker. We’re supposed to be outraged at the predatory male behaviour with no responsibility on the "innocent victimized" women.

Some favorite scenes:

Hope Lang as “mommy” giving Robert Evans the hard slap he deserves for toying with a very young very innocent girl, essentially ruining her-
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Ah the fashion! I spotted several fabulous 2 handled vinyl box purses-something I collected in my teens-
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The Barrymore type boss-I knew this type early in my career-
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Makes you wonder if Louis Jordan was ever annoyed at frequently being typecast as a slimeball!
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Kudos to the set designers as well as the costumers!
Notice the costume sketches on the walls in Jordan’s apartment? Also note the “theater" mirror on the right?
I once worked in publishing and the offices were populated by original paintings used for paperback book covers as seen in this movie-very REALISTIC!
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by kingrat »

TikiSoo, somewhere on this site is a wonderful and hilarious review of BATTLE CRY, demonstrating that the young men are essentially the girls in THE BEST OF EVERYTHING.
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Allhallowsday »

THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD (1965)

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MAX VON SYDOW is the best movie Jesus. The part where SYDNEY POITIER helps him with the cross choked me up.
I wonder though... another magical black person?
I missed my favorite part where SHELLEY WINTERS pops out of the crowd, bounces off Jesus and says: "I'm cured...? I'M CURED!!!" To which I always reply: "No you're not. You're still Shelley Winters."
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Lorna
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Lorna »

Allhallowsday wrote: April 1st, 2024, 12:09 am THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD (1965)
I missed my favorite part where SHELLEY WINTERS pops out of the crowd, bounces off Jesus and says: "I'm cured...? I'M CURED!!!" To which I always reply: "No you're not. You're still Shelley Winters."
Image (seriously, i read that at 5:00 am this morning and I am STILL laughing.)
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Lorna
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Lorna »

TikiSoo wrote: March 31st, 2024, 6:38 am Based upon conversation here, I borrowed THE BEST OF EVERYTHING 1959 from the library and watched it the other night. Whew-still catching my breath!

Kudos to the set designers as well as the costumers!
Notice the costume sketches on the walls in Jordan’s apartment? Also note the “theater" mirror on the right?
I once worked in publishing and the offices were populated by original paintings used for paperback book covers as seen in this movie-very REALISTIC!
I have a feeling you will also like the TRAILER (probably included on the DVD) about "the girls who DIDN'T marry at 20, and the MEN who WANTED THEM...but NOT for LOVE!!!!"

Also on the DVD they may have some trace of a deleted BIG SCENE for JOAN CRAWFORD that I am SURE she was FURIOUS was CUT, there are brief glimpses of it in the trailer, I swear I saw a moment of the deleted scene- her character AMANDA FARROW is DRUNK and pouring her heart out- and as I recall, she's really good.

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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Lorna »

SOMETIMES I LIKE TO HURT MYSELF by watching REALLY MESSED UP HORROR/EROTIC/EXPLOITATION MOVIES. I don't feel like getting into WHY, I just DO. And TUBI, it seems, is a GREAT PLACE FOR ****ED UP ****, this just showed up in my feed this weekend.

it's a 1981 ITALIAN EXPLOITATION HORROR ZOMBIE "NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD" ripoff from 1981 called BURIAL GROUND and I SWEAR TO GOD, it is like someone decided to remake the following KIDS IN THE HALL SKIT as a RELENTLESSLY VIOLENT AND SADISTIC FEATURE- but still keep the tone:



it is of course dubbed, and dubbed by people who didn't speak ITALIAN and also didn't care what the original dialogue was (really though, why should they? i kinda doubt from the VISUAL content it was anything soul-stirring) so you get dialogue like "RUN THIS WAY!!!!" when two people are running down a hallway from a ZOMBIE, ie "Thank you for your suggestion, Guissepe, and I appreciate your commitment to our survival, but there's only ONE WAY TO RUN AND WE ARE- IN FACT- ACTIVELY RUNNING IN IT RIGHT NOW, SO I DON'T PARTICULARLY NEED TO HEAR THIS!!!!"

AND MY FAVORITE: "Hey, these zombies seem like they want something INSIDE the house!!! What if it isn't us???" [note: this after said zombies have eaten five people] "maybe we should LET THEM IN, THEY'RE SO SLOW, WE CAN OUTRUN THEM." {which is demonstrably false and as you can imagine, THIS PLAN WHEN ACTED ON (!!!!) DOES NOT GO WELL.}

Two things worth noting, no, wait, THREE THINGS:

1. no one does HANDBAGS, SHOES and EXPLOITATION FILMS like THE ITALIANS.
I mean really and truly, the barenaked lack of adherance to any sense of human decency or basic logic gets to be ENDEARING and I seriously mean that. IT IS A charmingly, disarmingly shameless movie

2. it's also noteworthy that THERE ARE NO FALSE SCARES, which is kinda refreshing for a cheap horror movie, everytime a twig snaps or a door is opened THERE IS A GODDAMN ZOMBIE THERE and I kinda enjoy how manipulated this makes the viewer by the end.

3. the zombies in this thing are like WILE E. COYOTE levels of ingenious, and they have better luck then WILE E (granted, their prey are far dumber)- they use TOOLS (even ELECTRIC ONES!), they CLIMB WALLS, they even RUN.

IT'S HARD NOT TO ROOT FOR THEM.

the makeup guy was clearly influenced by DR PHIBES:

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AND I DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET INTO THE WEIRD INCESTUOUS "MOTHER AND SON" RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS TWO:

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Hibi
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Hibi »

Allhallowsday wrote: April 1st, 2024, 12:09 am THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD (1965)

Image

MAX VON SYDOW is the best movie Jesus. The part where SYDNEY POITIER helps him with the cross choked me up.
I wonder though... another magical black person?
I missed my favorite part where SHELLEY WINTERS pops out of the crowd, bounces off Jesus and says: "I'm cured...? I'M CURED!!!" To which I always reply: "No you're not. You're still Shelley Winters."
LMREO!!! I didn't have time to watch it yesterday, I only saw part of it. The Star cameos really hurt the film (a massive bomb) imo.
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Re: I Just Watched...

Post by Feinberg »

Allhallowsday wrote: April 1st, 2024, 12:09 am THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD (1965)

Image

MAX VON SYDOW is the best movie Jesus. The part where SYDNEY POITIER helps him with the cross choked me up.
I wonder though... another magical black person?
I missed my favorite part where SHELLEY WINTERS pops out of the crowd, bounces off Jesus and says: "I'm cured...? I'M CURED!!!" To which I always reply: "No you're not. You're still Shelley Winters."
If you can find Pauline Kael's review of this it is pretty funny.
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