Noir Alley

[Bronxgirl48]

Yep, a totally unbelievable plot--especially so that whole "Shoot me, I want you to shoot me" ending--that is actually quite well directed.

(...btw, I've always thought if Sam and Minnie Marx had had a daughter and instead of all sons, she would've looked just like Claudette Colbert...anyone else see this?...and no, I'm not kiddin' here)

Lay quiet, Dargo, the men in white coats will be kind to you, lol.

LOL

So then Bronxie you're sayin' you see no similarities in appearance between Claudette and say, particularly so with Leonard "Chico" Marx at ALL here???





AND, that IF Claudette HAD actually been a "Marx Sister", she could have gone by the stage name of "Cheeko" because of those big puffy cheeks of hers?!

And NOT to mention they share the very same NOSE!!!

Not seein' this then, eh?! Well, I DO!

(...and so in THAT case and while I'm waitin' for those men in white coats to arrive to my door here, how's the weather been down your way there in Alligator Land lately?)

LOL

Better you should have picked Fanny Brice!

Oy, Dargo, you know what? I don't think Mozart is going to help at all, lol.

(still hot as hell down here)

[Bronxgirl48]

It was good seeing The Wrong Man again. It may be atypical of Hitchcock but still a great film.

Eddie Muller doesn't go into as much detail on this as he does on others.

One thing I would like to mention is Peggy Webber as the insurance clerk who first sees Henry Fonda and believes he is the hold up man. She later had many memorable roles on Dragnet.

Doreen Lang as her coworker also popped up in The Birds as the mother who loses it in the restaurant. Same type of role as in this.

I think she's also in NORTH BY NORTHWEST, playing Cary's secretary!

[Bronxgirl48]

Yep, a totally unbelievable plot--especially so that whole "Shoot me, I want you to shoot me" ending--that is actually quite well directed.

(...btw, I've always thought if Sam and Minnie Marx had had a daughter and instead of all sons, she would've looked just like Claudette Colbert...anyone else see this?...and no, I'm not kiddin' here)

Lay quiet, Dargo, the men in white coats will be kind to you, lol.

OH, and I just thought of somethin' ELSE here, Bronxie!

And THIS comin' from a woman who's recently admitted in another thread around here that she thought she saw some kind'a "crab puppy" walkin' down a Florida sidewalk one day?!!!

(...kind'a makes my whole Claudette Colbert/Chico Marx thing here seem a whole lot less of a stretch by comparison, wouldn't ya say?!)

LOL

You leave my crab puppy alone!

To quote Lou Costello from A&C MEET FRANKENSTEIN: "I saw what I saw what I saw!"

[Bronxgirl48]

Esther Minciotti specialized in Italian mamas -- MARTY, THE WRONG MAN, FULL OF LIFE and probably others.

[Bronxgirl48]

Next week's OUT OF THE FOG is NOT "proto-noir", no matter what the "Czar" says.

It is a rather pretentious, stage-bound, Actor's Studio type drama teeming with tedious social symbolism. John Garfield gives one of his best performances as the vicious, predatory Goff. Fine cast.

[Dargo]

Next week's OUT OF THE FOG is NOT "proto-noir", no matter what the "Czar" says.

It is a rather pretentious, stage-bound, Actor's Studio type drama teeming with tedious social symbolism. John Garfield gives one of his best performances as the vicious, predatory Goff. Fine cast.

Oh, I dunno about that, Bronxie.

Ya see, coincidentally I just watched this film a few weeks back on TCM, and I remember thinking at the time that because of it's dark toned and claustrophic cinematography and the idea that Garfield plays a gangster who attempts to negatively control everything and everyone's lives in it, it could indeed be considered a "proto-noir".

FWIW, I would assume the definition for a "proto-noir" would be a film containing these same sorts of elements and made before or during WWII, and considering that I understand the French coined the term "film noir" to apply to films with these same elements but which were made post-WWII.

Here's the trailer for this film, and I'd say "proto-noir" might very well define it...

[Bronxgirl48]

Must respectfully disagree here, Dargo, although I will be watching it again next week to see if I still hold to my original opinions. The essence of noir to me (and I am not bound by narrow definitions of the genre) is an existential lack of control which I suppose you could say Thomas Mitchell and John Qualen experience at the hands of the ruthless Goff who might represent an inexorable, intractable Fate which a human being must either surrender to or try to overcome and "win".

It's an interesting discussion we will have next week!

[jamesjazzguitar]

Must respectfully disagree here, Dargo, although I will be watching it again next week to see if I still hold to my original opinions. The essence of noir to me (and I am not bound by narrow definitions of the genre) is an existential lack of control which I suppose you could say Thomas Mitchell and John Qualen experience at the hands of the ruthless Goff who might represent an inexorable, intractable Fate which a human being must either surrender to or try to overcome and "win".

It's an interesting discussion we will have next week!

I agree with Dargo. The film has a few noir themes: one you mention (the existential lack of control). But there are others: E.g. the young bored with life and her surroundings, young woman, wanting so much to get out so much she can't see the threat to those she cares about.

I do agree that the Eddie Albert characters is way too much of a snap, and he gets annoying very quickly. Also I view 'noir' as more of a style than a genre. In that way, the film has some of the traits of the classic noir style and thus, at least for me, I see why Eddie mentions the film as a proto-noir and why he is featuring it on Noir Alley.

(But note it would be much more 'noir' if the Albert character had attempted to kill Goff but instead got killed by him with Goff still getting killed by accident by the old men).

[Bronxgirl48]

Thought provoking, james, and I am also of the view that noir is more a style than a genre. (In this light I am of the opinion, however, that THE SEA WOLF -- also with Garfield and Lupino -- has more proto-noir elements than OUT OF THE FOG)

[Hibi]

I always enjoy Claudette but here I thought the script really did not serve her (or anyone else for that matter) well. I like Colbert better sans cosmetics at the Japanese prison camp in THREE CAME HOME.

Have they shown SLEEP, MY LOVE?

What a coinky dink! They are showing 3 Came Home this Wed at 10:45am! So I'll finally be able to see it! Preceded by The Secret Heart with JUNE at 9am! (debating on recording that one!) It must be her birthday (I know she is born in Sept.) She was born in 1905 so it would be her 118th birthday!

THREE CAME HOME is on this Wednesday? Oh wow, great, thanks my friend! Patrick Knowles (another of my under-the-radar screen dreamboats) plays Claudette's husband. Boy I'd hate to be away from him for so long....

I'll probably be catching THE SECRET HEART again just to get my creepy Allyson fix, lol. (hard to believe she's a fellow Libra)
[/quote]


I'm recording it to see if there's a glimpse of Claudette's right side as someone stated above!

[Hibi]

It was good seeing The Wrong Man again. It may be atypical of Hitchcock but still a great film.

Eddie Muller doesn't go into as much detail on this as he does on others.

One thing I would like to mention is Peggy Webber as the insurance clerk who first sees Henry Fonda and believes he is the hold up man. She later had many memorable roles on Dragnet.

Doreen Lang as her coworker also popped up in The Birds as the mother who loses it in the restaurant. Same type of role as in this.

I think she's also in NORTH BY NORTHWEST, playing Cary's secretary!

WOW. You're right!! I've seen that film so many times, but I didn't recognize her in that part. i guess it's her hair. She doesn't even get a credit for that part in the cast list. Hitch must've liked her to use her that much. In later years she did a lot of tv work.

[Bronxgirl48]

Despite Doreen Lang's American accent I do believe she's actually British, which would give her even more of an edge with Hitch.

[jamesjazzguitar]

I always enjoy Claudette but here I thought the script really did not serve her (or anyone else for that matter) well. I like Colbert better sans cosmetics at the Japanese prison camp in THREE CAME HOME.

Have they shown SLEEP, MY LOVE?

What a coinky dink! They are showing 3 Came Home this Wed at 10:45am! So I'll finally be able to see it! Preceded by The Secret Heart with JUNE at 9am! (debating on recording that one!) It must be her birthday (I know she is born in Sept.) She was born in 1905 so it would be her 118th birthday!

THREE CAME HOME is on this Wednesday? Oh wow, great, thanks my friend! Patrick Knowles (another of my under-the-radar screen dreamboats) plays Claudette's husband. Boy I'd hate to be away from him for so long....

Nice to see praise for Patrick Knowles. While under contact with Warner Bros. in the 30s, Knowles was featured as a secondary leading man in many films. After that contact wasn't renewed Knowles continued to act but more as just a supporting actor. Knowles made his first film in 1932 and his last was Arnold in 1973. That is over 40 years on screen. (as well as T.V. in the 50s and 60s.)

[Bronxgirl48]

Thanks, james -- Knowles had the subtle touch as an actor, plus he was a handsome devil, another of my favorite British heartthrobs which also include Robert Donat and Ronald Colman. He is mainly known in horror film circles (of which I am a member) as Evelyn Ankers' true sweetheart in the original classic 1941 THE WOLF MAN and (teaming with Lon Chaney, Jr. again) 1943's FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLF MAN, where, as a sympathetic doctor trying to cure Lawrence Talbot's lycanthropy, catches Ilona Massey's aristocratic eye.

[Bronxgirl48]

Knowles also played Lindsay Woolsey in the 1958 MAME. He was (very gentlemanly) "after" Mame Dennis although she, foolishly I thought, turned him down for oil man Forrest Tucker.