Has America gone Mad?

[mrsl]

Allowing myself to be a bit self absorbing, years ago when I turned off my soap operas because I was getting too involved in them, I turned for a week or two to game shows. That however, lasted only a very short time when I realized how greedy those people all were. Some of the shows especially offered people who had already won nice prizes, a bigger, more expensive prize, and probably 2 out of 3 times, they went for the bigger prize. I love to gamble, but the first rule is if you win, walk away with your winnings in your pockets. My generation was the first to have a TV in every home. Many of my friends growing up did not have TV's, but by the time I was married, the prices had come down to where everyone could afford one. The thing is, I wonder how many little kids were playing in their playpen, while Mom and/or Dad watched game shows all day. We all know kids are little sponges, so could some of that me, me, me, self-centering have come from those early days? It may sound outlandish, but so did the idea of cars and airplanes.

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[jdb1]

Very interesting, those two videos, and Marsalis' analysis is not at all surprising. In fact, his assessment of today's students echos one of the reasons I pulled my daughter out of her first year of high school and home schooled her.

All through grades 1 to 8, she received hardly any correction -- not of her behavior (fortunately not a problem there) and not of schoolwork. Can you believe it -- she got back homework with no corrections, only a "Good" or "Very Good." It's no wonder kids can't read, do math, spell, or comport themselves properly in social situations. And then there's the NYC Board of Education interdiction against competition as well. Children no longer have to compete with each other for anything -- the powers that be are afraid that someone's feelings might get hurt. When Margo told me she wanted to be a cheerleader (7th grade) I asked her when were the tryouts. "Oh, there are no tryouts," she said, "anyone who wants to can get in." So there she was at a school basketball game, along with 37 other girls, all trying to fit onto the court and jump and tumble at halftime. And of all those girls, only about a half dozen were any good (Margo was so-so, but at least she didn't embarrass herself). If there are no standards, what is there to strive for?

By the time some of these kids get into college, they have to be told by their professors that just because they may have paid tuition,that doesn't guarantee a passing grade. They actually have to be told that they are expected to work.

I remember that Columbo episode; it's the one where he sticks it to Mensa. Theo Bikel, who appears in that scene, is an actual Mensa member. But he can't help it -- he was born that way.

[mrsl]

Judith: Now that you mention it, last year my daughter was complaining that my grand daughters' teacher sent home the homework the same way, and when she asked about it, the teacher said it was for the parent to check over, and correct the child. So why does a teacher need a degree to teach?

I wish I could see those video clips you guys insert all the time, because I know I missed something from reading Judiths' post. I had no idea what she was talking about when she mentioned Brandeis. Can you give me just a quick synopsis?

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[jdb1]

Judith: Now that you mention it, last year my daughter was complaining that my grand daughters' teacher sent home the homework the same way, and when she asked about it, the teacher said it was for the parent to check over, and correct the child. So why does a teacher need a degree to teach?

I wish I could see those video clips you guys insert all the time, because I know I missed something from reading Judiths' post. I had no idea what she was talking about when she mentioned Brandeis. Can you give me just a quick synopsis?

.

Brandeis? Did I say Brandeis?

Anyway, Anne, I don't recall any teachers, save one, at PS 209 who expected we parents to pitch in to fill in their lapses. Most of the teachers there seemed perfectly happy with the mode of instruction, and my distinct impression of them is that they would not have moved one extra inch to help those kids, because it wasn't in the cirriculum that they do so. Margo got lucky with her fourth grade teacher, who insisted that the class do its best, and not just get by until she could get rid of them in June. I think I mentioned her in some other thread a while back, where I said that because she imposed standards where other teachers did not, she was considered the strict one in the school. I thought she was an excellent teacher, and so did many in her classes who appreciated the attention she paid to them. I think they will come to appreciate her even more as they go through life.

[srowley75]

The Problem:

Sweet. The Marsalis clip was a gem. I forwarded it to several professor acquaintances of mine, most of whom teach music.

Might the sensitivity to criticism that seems typical of today's youth be proportional to the amount of hard-edged cynicism burgeoning within our society? Along with being unable to accept correction, the general public seems to have become more prone toward widespread mockery and derision toward others (again, via varied media outlets) rather than in true constructive criticism intended to nurture rather than disembowel - and I see this as having been a slow and steady turn. (If I may again refer to reality TV - groan - it's amazing how many series on the various networks are structured around contestants attempting to win over a panel of arrogant, caustic, sneering judges or "experts" spewing one-liners at their expense.) Consequently, it becomes much harder for people-especially the young-to accept criticism because they believe they're simply being devalued when their skills and accomplishments are called into question.

[srowley75]

If there are no standards, what is there to strive for?

By the time some of these kids get into college, they have to be told by their professors that just because they may have paid tuition,that doesn't guarantee a passing grade. They actually have to be told that they are expected to work.

Don't assume it's different in college by any means. A friend of mine - an English professor - knew of some graduate assistants whose philosophy of education prevented them from handing out failing grades to their students in Comp 101. One of the GAs (an unbearable young SOB, by the way) was fired halfway through the semester. A female acquaintance of mine took over his classes and found that one of his students was an ESL learner who could barely speak or write English, yet somehow earned a B on his most recent paper.

I hesitate to speak concerning other departments, but for English teachers at the university level in particular, it's become more about ego enhancement via publication in journals and accolades from peers, rather than helping young minds learn to communicate well and appreciate well-written prose.

-Stephen

[ChiO]

I hesitate to speak concerning other departments, but for English teachers at the university level in particular, it's become more about ego enhancement via publication in journals and accolades from peers, rather than helping young minds learn to communicate well and appreciate well-written prose.

One hopes that that is not intended as an intimation of a conspiracy among university English teachers (or university teachers in general) to avoid teaching.

My impression (and it goes back to my days as a young aspiring professor in the early '70s) is that the vast majority of university teachers want nothing more than to teach. The UNIVERSITY, however, wants the teachers to publish publish publish so that the school attracts grants that attract graduate students that attract money (or, change the order because it doesn't matter as long as money is somewhere in the equation).

[mrsl]

Judith: I have no idea where I got the name of Brandeis from, it's that old no-short form memory of mine.

With four kids in three different schools and one of them on the year round system, I had plenty of experience with teachers, good and bad. By the time people get to University, granted, some classes they need a lot of guidance and training, but in many other choices really only a good leader is necessary. "Teaching" is really needed in the lowest of grammar school grades, and high school. A is for apple, B is for boy is only for youngsters. College is mainly lectures, and reading and memorizing thousands of pertinent items. College is a reinforcement and a broadening of what you learned in previous years and an additional hierarchy of facts and figures, but the basic learning experiences are already implanted. That is why the lowest grades are so vital and need really dedicated teachers.

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[jdb1]

Judith: I have no idea where I got the name of Brandeis from, it's that old no-short form memory of mine.

With four kids in three different schools and one of them on the year round system, I had plenty of experience with teachers, good and bad. By the time people get to University, granted, some classes they need a lot of guidance and training, but in many other choices really only a good leader is necessary. "Teaching" is really needed in the lowest of grammar school grades, and high school. A is for apple, B is for boy is only for youngsters. College is mainly lectures, and reading and memorizing thousands of pertinent items. College is a reinforcement and a broadening of what you learned in previous years and an additional hierarchy of facts and figures, but the basic learning experiences are already implanted. That is why the lowest grades are so vital and need really dedicated teachers.

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Amen, Sister.

[ken123]

Hearing Mr. Limbaugh's rant today ( via Think Progress ) about " Obama's America " and the need for segregated school buses made this 61 year old white male sick to my stomach.

[klondike]

I think Limbaugh needs to be segregated from American broadcasting.

No, wait, better idea : let's make him Don Imus' new sidekick -
they'd either fall madly (& perversely) in love with each other's rhetoric, or they would resort to fisticuffs, repeatedly, while still on the air . . it would be to die for!
(If the latter actually occurs, my money's on Imus . . he's moronic, but scrappy!)

[MichiganJ]

Even as a "joke", what does this say about our country?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,556722,00.html

[ken123]

Newsmax is a consevative website, yesterday it posted a blog by a Mr. Perry who called for a military coup to solve " the Obama problem ". Media Matters & Think Progress has the story.

[mrsl]

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I'm seeing red, so I decided to print in it. In answer to the questioned title of this thread, the response is a resounding YES :!: :!: :!: I am so angry I could spit. Barack Obama has received the Nobel Peace Prize, and the ignorants in Congress, and the media of this country have the insurmountable gall to question it, and say it is a mistake. THEIR president and his staff were warmongers who got us into war with an innocent country, and continued it for 5 years after knowing the truth, yet this new president is receiving one of the highest honors of any reputable congregation and his own countrymen question it :!: :!: :!: . Someone please explain to me where they get off before I explode. This is more than disgraceful, it makes me sick to think some of these stupid people are my neighbors, but wouldn't admit it.
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[CoffeeDan]

I'll be glad to explain it to you, Ann -- as soon as you can tell me what President Obama did before Feb. 1, 2009 that was worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize. (NB: Feb. 1 was the nominations deadline for this year's NPP.)