SSO Summer School- The Films and Style of Howard Hawks

[charliechaplinfan]

Does Ford get more of the glory? I've not seen an awful lot by John Ford but what I have seen is hit and miss (the misses How Green is my Valley and Tobacco Road) whereas I love Hawk's work and I prefer Hawk's early work to his later work. I still rate Red River as my favorite Western even though I've not seen The Searchers and Stagecoach (granted there are plenty I haven't seen).

To sum it up very simply for me, Hawks was better with words and actors but Ford had a way of capturing beauty on screen.

[movieman1957]

At first glance it seems a comparison is not easy as Hawks didn't make that many where Ford made many of them.

Ford made big films. There were big characters, big stories and action. Even the landscape was a character in Ford films. Hawks didn't seem to share that sense of grandeur. At is core "Red River" is not a big film but it may more closely resemble a Ford film than the other westerns he made. In that sense it has action and conflict and a struggle to overcome the drive. That is not nearly the case with "Rio Bravo" and "El Dorado." (I can't really speak to "The Big Sky.") They are mainly character studies with limited action and scope.

Hawks' films don't carry the emotional weight of Ford's (nor the sentimentality.) Hawks seem to be more the "buddy" type. While that is no knock on them they are of a different nature.

Now comparing their overall careers you then can get a real discussion going.

Maybe another interesting discussion might be to compare Ford and Boetticher or Mann.

Anyway, there it is such as it is.

[mrsl]

I'm going to surprise you Lynn, because I don't think there really is a fair way to compare the careers of Ford and Hawks. Ford made basically westerns with John Wayne at the helm of most of them. Most of his films were very family oriented, not so much with the family there on screen, but the reason for his characters' decisions. Going all the way back to, believe it or not, Shirley Temple's Wee Willlie Winkie which in most respects can be considered a western, albeit set in a different country, he was usually working on a western. He did other things as well of course, but in most cases, before and after each different one, was a western. As movieman said, Ford made big films, epic in scope actually if he had had Cinemascope at the time (imagine), and all were deep character studies.

Hawks on the other hand only made those few westerns with John Wayne towards the end which were all copies of one another, and Red River which I myself thought was a Ford movie so similar was it. But throughout his career, Hawks made all different genres of films from comedies to drama, to westerns. Ford was good at getting excellent performances but look what Hawks did with Gary Cooper in Sgt. York and Cary Grant in Only Angels have Wings. In fact he seemed to prefer Grant because he made a lot of movies with him, and except for Angels, they were all comedies.

Since I try to be honest at all times, I have to say I looked up Hawks filmography on imdB, but it turns out I've seen at least 75% of his films so, I feel qualified to give my opinions on him. I did the same with Ford to keep it even, but again there are very few I haven't seen.

To put it simply, Ford liked action, mostly in the west, but Hawks liked city dwellers. He stepped out of his own box occasionally with Red River and Big Sky, but didn't have the western 'heart' for much more. I think that's part of the reason he kept re-doing Rio Bravo.

The thing is, both directors left wonderful legacies for us to enjoy over and over. Papa Ford with his trilogy if nothing else, not to forget his war movies. Hawks left us wonderful comedies to laugh with. I personally thank him for Bringing Up Baby, and His Girl Friday, and the original the Thing.

[charliechaplinfan]

I think you've both grasped it for me. I favour Hawks because I like his dialogue ans his choice of actors and the fact he was successful in a few genres. His screwball comedies are amongst my favorite, Red River is my favorite western so far, Scarface my favorite gangster movie. I'm not as qualified to speak about Ford but on my coffee table is the Scott Eyman book about him and I'm currently reading about John Wayne, so I'm learning.

The Quiet Man is one of my favorite films. I loved The Informer, The Searchers is a stunning film one I want to watch again to get the nuances of the performances.

Form what I've read on both men, far more on Hawks than Ford, I can't say I like them as people, maybe I'm hard on Ford because he does seem a bit sentimental but Hawks, no I can't say that I liked the man but I love his films and that is what counts.

[mrsl]

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Encore Western has been showing a TV version of Red River with Jim Arness as Dunson, and when I saw it in the listing during the night, I decided to watch it, and lo and behold it was the original Howard Hawks, John Wayne, which lately has been sneaking into my psyche. I still hate the end, because it doesn't live up to the fullness of the rest of the movie.

My main reason for finding this thread however was to incorporate the fact that with all the things that Hawks copied from John Ford, I never realized he also did the music thing. A song was done instrumentally in the beginning, repeated about the middle, and again near the end, and it was driving me nuts trying to figure out where I had heard it before. Finally the dawn burst and I realized I was singing along with. . . 'my rifle, pony, and me'. . . the song sung by Rick Nelson and Dean Martin killing time in the jail waiting for the bad guys to show up in Rio Bravo.

Now I'm going to pull some of my Hawks movies and see if I can find any other musical repeats.
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