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Loretta Young

Discussion of the actors, directors and film-makers who 'made it all happen'

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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby charliechaplinfan » June 19th, 2011, 10:52 am

Where have I been for the last day or so, helping run the school fete and feeling the payback for it (that's another story) but I understand what you were trying to say Libertine, I have the same problem with what I have read about her. I love her early movies, I think she has such a naturalness that many of the other screen ladies of the day don't possess, she's so fresh and her innocence makes the most of the roles where she is downtrodden by circumstance or forced to take up a way of live that is abhorrent to any decent girl. I don't blame her for her affair with Gable or Tracy, who would? I also think she was incredibly brave in keeping Judy, that's shows some mettle. I believe she was quite an early entrant into the world of television. I have problems putting into words what I feel about what I've read, I am a church going catholic but I detest the judgemental or holier than thou and this is what comes across to me about what I have picked up about her. I have read The Star Machine which I would recommend as it concentrates on quite a few lesser known stars and character actors and covers ground I'd never read about before but most of what I have picked up is from books about others where she is mentioned as a costar or Hollywood personality.

Regarding Judy Lewis I do find Clark Gable's behaviour towards her quite strange, here is a man who really wanted a child but had one, one he couldn't acknowledge but he could have been a family friend or male presence. To my knowledge the meetings of Judy and Clark numbered only two. I will be looking at Judy's website, a woman who has a website dedicated to her by her daughter perhaps doesn't warrant my feelings about her.
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby Libertine » June 20th, 2011, 1:37 pm

charliechaplinfan wrote:Where have I been for the last day or so, helping run the school fete and feeling the payback for it (that's another story) but I understand what you were trying to say Libertine, I have the same problem with what I have read about her.


I do not want to sound like a lunatic, but THANK YOU SO MUCH. :)

charliechaplinfan wrote:I love her early movies, I think she has such a naturalness that many of the other screen ladies of the day don't possess, she's so fresh and her innocence makes the most of the roles where she is downtrodden by circumstance or forced to take up a way of live that is abhorrent to any decent girl.


Yeah, I like her in movies too. I haven't seen her really early movies, as she began as a youngster, but it's not like she's unlikable or anything.

charliechaplinfan wrote:I don't blame her for her affair with Gable or Tracy, who would? I also think she was incredibly brave in keeping Judy, that's shows some mettle.


Yeah, she did risk a lot, in the end, even more so because Judy looks a lot like her father, and I wondered if nobody recognized it already back then?

charliechaplinfan wrote:I believe she was quite an early entrant into the world of television. I have problems putting into words what I feel about what I've read, I am a church going catholic but I detest the judgemental or holier than thou and this is what comes across to me about what I have picked up about her.


Ditto. This is what I wondered all the time when reading a bit about her here and there. I mean, David Niven for an example, said she was one of the nicest women he has ever met. I think he even lived with her and her family (her mother and sisters) for a while, or am I wrong now?

charliechaplinfan wrote: I have read The Star Machine which I would recommend as it concentrates on quite a few lesser known stars and character actors and covers ground I'd never read about before but most of what I have picked up is from books about others where she is mentioned as a costar or Hollywood personality.


I've heard it's a great book. Isn't Ty Power also featured in there? I think so, him and Loretta are on the cover... oh, gosh, my book-wish-list is getting longer.. and longer.. lol

charliechaplinfan wrote:Regarding Judy Lewis I do find Clark Gable's behaviour towards her quite strange, here is a man who really wanted a child but had one, one he couldn't acknowledge but he could have been a family friend or male presence. To my knowledge the meetings of Judy and Clark numbered only two. I will be looking at Judy's website, a woman who has a website dedicated to her by her daughter perhaps doesn't warrant my feelings about her.


Gosh I think we could have a thread on that topic itself... did he know that she was her child from the beginning? You know, somehow the Schwarzenegger-story echoes in my head now.. so to say.
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby charliechaplinfan » June 20th, 2011, 1:48 pm

I don't know about the David Niven story although I can imagine the man could charm the birds from the trees so getting put up by one of his co stars is not surprising. He did make The Bishop's Wife with Loretta and Cary Grant just after his wife died, perhaps his friendship with Loretta started from there.

I suspect that Clark knew all along that Judy was his kid, he knew later on when he paid a visit to her. I find it surprising that a man would be able to contain his curiousity regarding his own daughter, surely it's natural to wonder?
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby Libertine » June 20th, 2011, 2:59 pm

charliechaplinfan wrote:I don't know about the David Niven story although I can imagine the man could charm the birds from the trees so getting put up by one of his co stars is not surprising. He did make The Bishop's Wife with Loretta and Cary Grant just after his wife died, perhaps his friendship with Loretta started from there.

I suspect that Clark knew all along that Judy was his kid, he knew later on when he paid a visit to her. I find it surprising that a man would be able to contain his curiousity regarding his own daughter, surely it's natural to wonder?


Ok, I'll check the Niven book about Loretta... when he arrived in the states, he moved in with Sally Blaine (Loretta's sister)... if you don't have the book "The Moon's a Balloon" I'll type the story in this week(end), let me know if you want to read it, and need it.

Maybe Loretta didn't want him to see Judy? So that people could not too easily suspect that there's something "wrong"?
Perhaps I am mad. How should I know? I think I am normal.
~Tallulah Bankhead


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Re: Loretta Young

Postby JackFavell » June 21st, 2011, 10:04 am

Libertine - before I go diving into this thread which looks fascinating, I want to thank you for your lovely avatar. I think I'll stare at that gorgeous continental man for a little while longer before I attempt to read. Image

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby JackFavell » June 21st, 2011, 10:36 am

This is sort of small potatoes, but....

A high school friend of mine got to spend a day with Loretta Young, digging through her closets for a museum installation of gowns designed by Jean Louis that he worked on. First of all, he said that the closets were the best designed he'd ever seen, and secondly, that Ms. Young was the most gracious and kind movie star he ever met.

What immediately leapt into my mind (having read nothing on the subject of any value) on hearing that Gable had only one meeting with his daughter, is that it is very possible that he could have been banned from ever presenting himself to Loretta or the daughter by Loretta's family. If Gladys was that religious, she would have been horrified by the whole situation, and would have tried everything to stop any further contact other than on the screen.

I have had questions about these relationships of Loretta's before myself.. for a religious person, she sure did get around. But people make mistakes. Being religious doesn't mean being perfect or better than others, it means believing in God. It means trying to do the right thing and more often than not, failing, because we are all human. Everyone has their own failings and weaknesses. If Loretta was brought up in a strict household, she may very well have been eager to experience life and love, and may have been foolish in her choices. She was only 22 in 1935, and if she had been sheltered, well.....

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby moira finnie » June 21st, 2011, 10:49 am

Glad to see you back on deck, JF. :P

As I recall in Judy Lewis' book, Gable met his daughter twice. The first time was a few days after her birth, when a reluctant Loretta Young allowed him to visit her and the baby in the small rented house where she and her mother were hiding from the press in the LA area. Arriving and finding the infant being swaddled and deposited in a dresser drawer, the visibly upset actor insisted that the stubbornly independent Young accept some money from him, for, he said, "to at least get her a proper crib." After all the arcane maneuvers that Young went through to adopt her own daughter to throw off the press, the girl was well cared for, though she did grow up with a sense that something was awry.

This is all from the info that Judy Lewis gathered piece meal throughout her life from the few times that she was able to get her mother to talk about this extremely painful topic, but I had the impression after reading this woman's account of things and a few books, (E. J. Fleming's The Fixers: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine (2004), for one), that the guys in charge at MGM would have compelled the married Gable to minimize contact with Young. I am not sure, but suspect that Loretta Young did not have much trust for men in general. Her mother's marriages ended sadly, her own first marriage to Grant Withers was annulled at the insistence of her mother (Loretta was underage), and she had already had an emotionally wrenching affair with the married Spencer Tracy, (which Loretta Young addressed openly in her own authorized bio). Understandably, I don't think men were equated with caregivers in her book. That may have been a factor too, perhaps?
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby JackFavell » June 21st, 2011, 10:56 am

Thanks, Moira, it's good to be back.

Your avatar is also wonderful. :D

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby moira finnie » June 21st, 2011, 11:32 am

JackFavell wrote:Your avatar is also wonderful. :D

Thanks, but look who's talking! Have you seen Joe in Serenade (1956) when he was much older (with flour in his hair)? He waxes philosophical with his star pupil, Mario Lanza, which may have been fun for Mr. Calleia, since he started life as an opera student, I think. Believe it or not, the movie was directed by...Anthony Mann :shock:

I really liked this movie, because of and despite its amusing qualities. It was based on a James M. Cain novel about an opera singer who is torn between a gay impresario and a lusty Mexican prostitute. After the Production Code okayed it, the only part of that last sentence that remained was the phrase "opera singer." Believe me, it's pretty interesting seeing Mario going to drama school under the tutelage of Mr. Mann, as seen below in one scene.
Image

Btw, while we are all discussing Loretta Young's private life, I came across this clip and the following rare movie:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kSrcxcpOB8[/youtube]

And Now Tomorrow (1944): Loretta Young is deaf. Alan Ladd is a doctor. Gosh, what happens next? Haven't seen it in years but I think it was pretty well done at a time when most handicapped people were not shown in movies. The entire movie is here:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDINKHzn9WQ&feature=player_profilepage[/youtube]
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby MissGoddess » June 21st, 2011, 11:58 am

I can highly recommend And Now, Tomorrow. It's one of my long time favorites.
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby moira finnie » June 21st, 2011, 1:32 pm

MissGoddess wrote:I can highly recommend And Now, Tomorrow. It's one of my long time favorites.

Thanks for the recommendation, Miss G. and I'm glad to see you posting a bit. I'll watch And Now Tomorrow tonight if I can. I remember liking Ladd's gentle but firm way of helping the Young character out of her isolation in this one too. The two stars had a nice rapport together, emotionally and physically, as evidenced in John Farrow's China (1943), their earlier collaboration. You can see the pair in the highlights shown below (the video starts with a tedious bit, but you might want to give it a chance since it gets a bit better):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP0DeU0D9sk[/youtube]
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Re: Loretta Young

Postby JackFavell » June 21st, 2011, 2:22 pm

I also loved And Now Tomorrow - and have a little story to relate.

When I was in high school, my mother would get very frustrated with me because I would sit in my room with my movie books, or watch old movies all the time. She wanted e to spend more time with friends, doing things.

She went to the library all the time, and one day I went and checked out a book - And Now Tomorrow. An afternoon later, I came out of my room bawling, tears streaming down my face. My mom asked what was wrong, and I told her through my gasping sobs that I had just read this great book..and showed her. She stopped and stared at the old, un-dustjacketed book. It turns out this was her favorite book when she was a teen - and she told me to watch the movie! I waited for years, but finally saw it and I thought it captured the book well.

As for Serenade, no, I haven't seen it yet, but now I HAVE to, not just for Joe, but for an ANTHONY MANN musical. Does it get progressively darker throughout the whole thing, and end with Lanza pushing a man under a heavy falling Fresnel lamp? :D

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby Libertine » June 21st, 2011, 2:32 pm

JackFavell wrote:Libertine - before I go diving into this thread which looks fascinating, I want to thank you for your lovely avatar. I think I'll stare at that gorgeous continental man for a little while longer before I attempt to read. Image


You're welcome, glad you like it. :D

JackFavell wrote:What immediately leapt into my mind (having read nothing on the subject of any value) on hearing that Gable had only one meeting with his daughter, is that it is very possible that he could have been banned from ever presenting himself to Loretta or the daughter by Loretta's family. If Gladys was that religious, she would have been horrified by the whole situation, and would have tried everything to stop any further contact other than on the screen.


Thanks for this post. So her mother/family was already religious? I assume "Glady's" is her mom, right? So, ok, she did what her mother wanted, eh? Well, those were different times.. must have been difficult for her then.

moirafinnie wrote:As I recall in Judy Lewis' book, Gable met his daughter twice. The first time was a few days after her birth, when a reluctant Loretta Young allowed him to visit her and the baby in the small rented house where she and her mother were hiding from the press in the LA area. Arriving and finding the infant being swaddled and deposited in a dresser drawer, the visibly upset actor insisted that the stubbornly independent Young accept some money from him, for, he said, "to at least get her a proper crib." After all the arcane maneuvers that Young went through to adopt her own daughter to throw off the press, the girl was well cared for, though she did grow up with a sense that something was awry.

This is all from the info that Judy Lewis gathered piece meal throughout her life from the few times that she was able to get her mother to talk about this extremely painful topic, but I had the impression after reading this woman's account of things and a few books, (E. J. Fleming's The Fixers: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine (2004), for one), that the guys in charge at MGM would have compelled the married Gable to minimize contact with Young. I am not sure, but suspect that Loretta Young did not have much trust for men in general. Her mother's marriages ended sadly, her own first marriage to Grant Withers was annulled at the insistence of her mother (Loretta was underage), and she had already had an emotionally wrenching affair with the married Spencer Tracy, (which Loretta Young addressed openly in her own authorized bio). Understandably, I don't think men were equated with caregivers in her book. That may have been a factor too, perhaps?


It was not so easy for her then. I find it, after watching the clip of Judy Lewis talking about her father, really sad. I mean, who in the end, I wonder, kept him really from meeting his child? Loretta? Her mother? MGM? He himself? Or all of these possibilities more or less together? However, it's just sad, because it kept daughter and father to get to know each other, to spend time with each other, etc.
Perhaps I am mad. How should I know? I think I am normal.
~Tallulah Bankhead


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Re: Loretta Young

Postby charliechaplinfan » June 21st, 2011, 2:50 pm

It's really sad to think they were relative strangers. I can imagine MGM threatening Gable with a ruined career if he acknowledged or even visited their child. If Loretta was brought up in a strict Catholic household with a strict mama and then started working in films in her teens that's going to lad to mixed messages and possibly some rebellion.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Loretta Young

Postby MissGoddess » June 21st, 2011, 5:12 pm

moirafinnie wrote:
MissGoddess wrote:I can highly recommend And Now, Tomorrow. It's one of my long time favorites.

Thanks for the recommendation, Miss G. and I'm glad to see you posting a bit. I'll watch And Now Tomorrow tonight if I can. I remember liking Ladd's gentle but firm way of helping the Young character out of her isolation in this one too. The two stars had a nice rapport together, emotionally and physically, as evidenced in John Farrow's China (1943), their earlier collaboration. You can see the pair in the highlights shown below (the video starts with a tedious bit, but you might want to give it a chance since it gets a bit better):


I don't know if I've seen China...I think I did a long time ago but I'd love to find the whole thing again.

As for And Now, Tomorrow, I like seeing loretta's character learn and grow and how Ladd's character also kind of learns to be patient. Initially, he's so turned off about her whole social status and money that he assumes the worst of her, but she comes through nicely.

Wendy you now make me want to look for the book.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers


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