George Raft

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charliechaplinfan
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Re: George Raft

Post by charliechaplinfan »

Stone, I just noticed that George's imdb page lists his birthday as 1901, it's more believable by the way he looks, I'd certainly of had him younger than Bogart but he claimed the real date is 1895 and your research showed that too.
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RedRiver
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Re: George Raft

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THE APARTMENT is basically a drama. And a comedy. That's what makes it so brilliant. People talk about serious things, but in amusing ways. Spaghetti is strained with a tennis racquet. "Wait till you see me serve the meatballs!" A speech about suicide and hopelessness is delivered with the speaker's face covered with shaving cream. Misunderstandings abound with the rapidity of an Oscar Wilde play. It's not a light comedy. But the best ones aren't.

This is one of the best comedies, and dramas, it's been my pleasure to watch.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: George Raft

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I might not care for One, Two, Three but I love The Apartment for all the reasons you said RedRiver but Some Like It Hot tops them all, not only Billy Wilder movies but comedies in general, it's a masterpiece.
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Western Guy
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Re: George Raft

Post by Western Guy »

Re: Horst Bucholz;

Cagney made it clear in his autobiography that he didn't care for Bucholz. Young Horst and elderly S.Z. Sakall are the only two of Cangey's co-players that he actively disliked. Cagney's main reason was he found the two trying with their scene-stealing antics. Cagney apparently didn't go in for such stuff. He didn't need to; he was a natural scene-stealer.

Re: Raft's birthdate;

Yes that 1901 information did recently pop up, apparently in a census check. Who can say for sure? Raft himself referred to himself as 85 in one of his last interviews, and that is what is inscribed as his birthdate on his cemetery plaque. I tend to believe the 1895 date. Most actors try to shave years off their birthdates, not add on to it.
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Re: George Raft

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[u]CHARLIE CHAPLIN FAN[/u] wrote:I've also got Souls at Sea on it's way from the rental service, can't wait to see the finger puppets, the more I think of it I think the mixture of Gary Cooper and George Raft is really good casting, in my mind they're very much opposites, apart from the roving way with the ladies of course.
[u]CHARLIE CHAPLIN FAN[/u] wrote:My Raft films have arrived, now I just have to send the noisy kids back to school, we are watching The Simpsons Movie for the umpteenth time at the moment.
[u]FEAITO[/u] wrote:How lucky to be able to rent Souls at Sea Ali, not available at all here... :roll:


FEAITO!!! Ooooh, 'scuse me for yelling. COME & GET IT WHILE IT LASTS---------->
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Re: George Raft

Post by feaito »

Thank you Theresa! I hope it's still available when I get home at night, 'cuz the Universal Police is ruthless! :wink:
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mongoII
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Re: George Raft

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And I thought everyone liked S.Z.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: George Raft

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I thought everyone liked SZ too. I can't imagine Horst being a scene stealer, as an actor he doesn't stand out for me apart from as a pretty face, if he was stealing scenes it didn't have a great impact on me. It's very hard to look at anyone else when Cagney's on the screen, he's the most charged of performers. I'm looking forward to Each Dawn I Die too see how George and Cagney act together. Cagney overshadowed Bogart in their movies, I felt, rightly or wrongly there was rivalry both as characters and as performers but Cagney and Raft liked each other and charged as Cagney is, he isn't a selfish performer and their acting styles I'm expecting to be complimentary.

1895 or 1901? I'm presuming from what I've read that a George Ranft has been found on the 1901 census at the right age? Maybe he did claim to be older than he was when he was older, it could end up as complimentary,in a you're kidding you're 85 kind of way. I find it hard to believe that he packed in so much before Hollywood if he was early thirties when he arrived, if he was actually in his late twenties it makes it even more difficult to believe. Plus his close friendship with Owney Madden, that would have set them some years apart then. Still I wonder if there was a man named George Ranft born in Hell's kitchen in 1901 and if it's possible to trace him? And is there a George Ranft census entry that tallies with 1895?
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CineMaven
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Re: George Raft

Post by CineMaven »

[u]charliechaplinfan[/u] wrote:...I'm looking forward to Each Dawn I Die too see how George and Cagney act together. Cagney overshadowed Bogart in their movies, I felt, rightly or wrongly there was rivalry both as characters and as performers but Cagney and Raft liked each other and charged as Cagney is, he isn't a selfish performer and their acting styles I'm expecting to be complimentary.
I'll be very curious to read what you think of "EACH DAWN I DIE." It's one of my favorite Cagney/Rafty movies. Yes, Cagney overshadowed Bogey in the beginning. But after "High Sierra" and "The Maltese Falcon" and "Casablanca" a guy couldn't touch the brim of Bogey's hat.
Still I wonder if there was a man named George Ranft born in Hell's kitchen in 1901 and if it's possible to trace him? And is there a George Ranft census entry that tallies with 1895?
You know what Allison, I don't think there were enuf census takers in the world to keep track of all the kids being born to poor folks in Hell's Kitchen at the beginning of the last century...

P.S. Maybe men didn't find "Cuddles" so cuddly. :roll:
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Western Guy
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Re: George Raft

Post by Western Guy »

Well, the real Raft birthdate may forever be a mystery, but for what it's worth, I'll stick with 1895. Find it hard to believe he was the youngest of the Warner tough guys. Funny bit in "Invisible Stripes" when Raft's character Cliff Taylor gives his age as 27. Even if Raft was born in 1901 he'd have been 38. Raft had a youthful appearance but no way does pass for 27!

BTW: Bogart was originally cast as "Hood" Stacey in "Each Dawn I Die" until Raft came into the picture, free of his Paramount contract. Fred MacMurray and even John Garfield were two other considerations.

Cagney's dislike of "Cuddles" is not mentioned in his autobiography - he mentions only Horst Bucholz by name with a bit of a knock towards Margaret Lindsay and William Keighley. The John McCabe book "Cagney" (what else?) goes a bit more explicit in Cagney's personal and professional dislikes -- including Mervyn LeRoy (of whom Cagney even composed a poem).
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Re: George Raft

Post by CineMaven »

Oh my, please tell why Cagney didn't care for Margaret Lindsay.
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moira finnie
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Re: George Raft

Post by moira finnie »

CineMaven wrote:Oh my, please tell why Cagney didn't care for Margaret Lindsay.
Maybe I am wrong, but I believe Cagney liked her okay, but found her acting opposite him a tad affected. She had studied in Great Britain and it left its mark on her acting style, (and her accent), which Cagney did not think helped. Here is how John McCabe described Jimmy's feelings in his very good Cagney (Da Capo Press), a bio of his friend, which I would recommend, [along with Cagney by Cagney (Random House)] for anyone interested in the actor :
"Lindsay was something of a mystery to Jim: 'She was certainly a lovely lady. Very nice to look at, but I could never quite get on her wavelength. For all her beauty, there was a coldness to her acting, I felt. She was personable and pleasant offscreen, but on--I don't know. She was an Iowa gal, like my Willie [Jim's wife], but Margaret had gone to acting school in England, and it showed. Inappropriately, I thought. For instance in Lady Killer, she said 'ahsk' for 'ask' and 'bahthrom' for 'bathroom.' I was waiting for Roy [Del Ruth, the director] to correct her, but he never did. Margaret did tha ta lot, putting in unexpected and unwarrantable Britishisms, and they stuck out like a sore thumb.'
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Re: George Raft

Post by Western Guy »

. . . And that is also the reason Cagney couldn't warm to director Keighley. You're right, Moira, Cagney didn't actively dislike either just was annoyed by both coming across as something neither was. A telling point was how he enjoyed the company of tough guy Bartom MacLane and his constant use of profanities. Demonstrates how Yorkville Jimmy preferred the company of natural people and avoided pretense. An admirable quality.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: George Raft

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I was going to ask if anyone had read the McCabe book on Jimmy Cagney, I have and I liked it, I came away thinking that Cagney was one of the most likeable and moral men in Hollywood. Such a difference from the early gangsters he played. A gentleman.

I just love delving into our censuses to check details, of course they are only as accurate as the homeowner wants them to be but just to look back a hundred years and see how many children made up a household, what age they went to work and what jobs the family did. I find it fascinating, especially when those houses are still standing today.

Theresa, I can't wait for Each Dawn I Die, Cagney and Raft and your recommendation too. I know what you mean when you say that no one can touch Bogey after he made High Sierra, The Maltese Falcon etc he perfected what he did but my heart goes for Cagney every time as to who I prefer (if that's the right word) between them, I think it's the dancer in Cagney that gets me hooked, if a guy can dance and sing too well, it goes a long way for me.

I'm hoping Stone, in these films I've got, many which are later George Raft that there will be film noirs amongst them, I love film noirs. I get the plots confused, I can never remember who is in them unless it's a big name but it's a guilty pleasure of mine and I'm not allowed to watch them when hubby's at home.
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Re: George Raft

Post by Western Guy »

Allison, you enter the Raft film noir element mostly with the post-Warner years, primarily the RKO output. My recommendations would be Johnny Angel, Nocturne, Red Light, Race Street and Rogue Cop. If you're interested, google Stone Wallace and you'll find some Raft noir write-ups I did.
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