Best And Worst Mothers In Film

[Allhallowsday]

...If we want to get a bit far out, we can ask, into which category, best or worst, would Samantha Eggar in The Brood fall?

...Tastiest...?

[Belle]

Best: Eugenie Leontovich, "Four Sons"
Dorothy McGuire, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"

Worst: Shelley Winters, "Lolita"
Betty Field, "Picnic"

[jamesjazzguitar]

Best: Eugenie Leontovich, "Four Sons"
Dorothy McGuire, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"

Worst: Shelley Winters, "Lolita"
Betty Field, "Picnic"

I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.

[Intrepid37]

I guess Mommy Dearest is a bit too on the nose for this thread?

Crawford lovers get really PO'd when that one is mentioned.

[Belle]

Best: Eugenie Leontovich, "Four Sons"
Dorothy McGuire, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"

Worst: Shelley Winters, "Lolita"
Betty Field, "Picnic"

I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.

Yes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!

[jamesjazzguitar]

Best: Eugenie Leontovich, "Four Sons"
Dorothy McGuire, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"

Worst: Shelley Winters, "Lolita"
Betty Field, "Picnic"

I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.

Yes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!

I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.

[Belle]

Perhaps I could have used a more obvious example of a poor mother in film, than a subtle one. But we do see in life, over and over, women making poor choices of a partner which directly affects daughters in a very bad way - as in this case. The Lana Turner/Cheryl Crane case comes to mind.

Shelley Winters' Charlotte is just dumb as Lolita's mother; sexually frustrated, cloying, needy and deliberately blind to Humbert's creepiness - so brilliantly conveyed by James Mason. (Winters played another neurotic role in "A Place in the Sun").

[Belle]

Another bad mother: Rosalind Russell as Rose in "Gypsy".

[Belle]

I can't help but notice that this thread is distinctly longer than the best/worst fathers thread

It disappears, as do other threads, and I don't know how to search for Page 2.

[LostHorizons]

I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.

Yes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!

I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.

Are you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.

[jamesjazzguitar]

Yes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!

I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.

Are you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.

I agree that the mom was very neglectful. My point was that in the film, I can't recall where she was provided any clues as to Humbert's sexual intentions as it relates to Lolita. You mix 'protecting and raising': Again, where in the film was she provided a clue as to Humbert intentions and didn't protect her from those intentions? You mention shipping her daughter off: That is a prime example of neglect but is unrelated to protecting her.

Yes, she is annoying (which I said), but the core issue being discussed is if the mom didn't protect her from Humbert in the film.

Note that the difference between the novel and film are due to the Production Code: The film couldn't have been made, if such clues were provided. Therefore, I believe you are judging the actions of the mother, as it relates to protecting her Humbert, from how things are more overtly portrayed in the book, than in the film.

[jamesjazzguitar]

I can't help but notice that this thread is distinctly longer than the best/worst fathers thread

Interesting: I watch a lot of 50s and 60s westerns and based on my viewing there are many more bad-fathers than there are bad-mothers.

In many, the mother is the one that comes to the recuse, protecting their kin from the father. Note that stepfathers are portrayed more in a negative light than a positive one. Of course, there are exceptions.

[LostHorizons]

I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.

Are you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.

I agree that the mom was very neglectful. My point was that in the film, I can't recall where she was provided any clues as to Humbert's sexual intentions as it relates to Lolita. You mix 'protecting and raising': Again, where in the film was she provided a clue as to Humbert intentions and didn't protect her from those intentions? You mention shipping her daughter off: That is a prime example of neglect but is unrelated to protecting her.

Yes, she is annoying (which I said), but the core issue being discussed is if the mom didn't protect her from Humbert in the film.

Note that the difference between the novel and film are due to the Production Code: The film couldn't have been made, if such clues were provided. Therefore, I believe you are judging the actions of the mother, as it relates to protecting her Humbert, from how things are more overtly portrayed in the book, than in the film.

Predator or not, you shouldn’t let some random guy you just met into your house and drive your kid into the arms of a child pornographer through your sheer neglect and stupidity. Dolores sought refuge in the arms of perverted men specifically because of her poor upbringing and the fact that even when the mom was around she was basically alone in the world without a strong paternal or maternal figure to guide her.

Whether she knew Humbert was a pedophile or not is totally irrelevant to why she is a bad mother. Her own poor treatment of her daughter and her inability to provide for her and nurture her is a direct correlation with the daughter seeking out Quilty and being abused by Humbert. That is my point.