3 Christian films with a message

[jdb1]

I think you all have touched on a salient point: there's a difference between films that explore the nature of faith, and films that try to show that only their makers' way of thinking is correct.

A non-Christian can certainly accept the notion of the strength of faith; it's the idea that only a Christian concept of faith and religion are correct that can be offensive to some. May I point out: faith and religion are not necessarily the same thing. You can be a person of great faith and morality and subscribe to no particular religious rites. I think that is what some makers of "religious" movies are not prepared to accept.

The problem is, as I see it, when do we stop simply not paying attention to such things because we find them offensive, and when do we have to speak up, because perhaps things are getting a little too offensive, and moving on into dangerous. Frankly, I think the skewering parody version of Left Behind done on The Simpsons gives a very good precis of why such thought can be very dangerous in a free society. However, since our society is de jure, if not de facto, a free one, there should be room for all varieties of thought on the subject.

[ken123]

Many of John Ford & Frank Capra's films show a very Catholic perspective on life, but to me the most Christian film is Stange cargo, starring Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, Peter Lorre, and Ian Hunter.It was directed by the great Frank Borzage, and naturally it was condemned by the Catholic Legion of Decency.

[ChiO]

I gravitate toward films where the director allows for some ambiguity and respects the audience enough for it to draw its own conclusions. As a result, I generally do not care for films with a Big Message -- be it "Racism is Bad" or "Drugs are Good" -- because, by its very nature, a Big Message allows for little latitude in the ambiguity or respect-for-audience departments.

As one who tries to adhere to the tenets of Christianity through worship and the related day-to-day practice of Greek Orthodoxy (founded 33 A.D. or C.E., oh, ye practitioners of the breakaway Christian denominations ), Big Message films are no more palatable to me when dressed in the cloak of Christianity.

As a semi-neutral analogy from another medium, consider Michaelangelo's La Pieta. Some Christians may look at it as purely a moving statement of the Christian faith: The Virgin Mary/Theotokos/Mary, Mother of Jesus not only mourning the loss of her son, but accepting that the loss is the world's salvation (digression: a Roman Catholic friend cannot understand how I can be moved by it in any way since I'm not Roman Catholic ). Others of non-Christian faiths or no faith, knowing the back story, may view it as moving on a more general level, representing sacrifice for a greater good. Others may view it as an incredible sculpture based solely on technique and execution. (Oh, I suppose there's also the "what a waste of a chunk of marble" school.)

And it's all three to me, which is why it is one of the three most moving works of non-film art I have ever seen. The films I like most (and, at the risk of sounding like AFI, I daresay the "best" films) allow that scope of interpretation and, therefore, are able to touch more people in potentially profound ways.

[Hollis]

Dear Judith,

Thanks for speaking so eloquently for those of us that share your views. Maybe I'm somewhat naive but I've never been able to recognize how a faith that so many innocent people have died in the name of could be the "one true religion." I've also had problems with understanding "immaculate conception," "original sin," and "The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost." I believe that somewhere in the Old Testament of the Bible there's a passage that (to paraphrase) says that "A man shall take to his closet to communicate with the Lord." That would seem to me to shatter the whole concept of organized religion. Further, as a pragmatist, I have a great deal of trouble conceiving of a "Supreme Being" with total omnipotence and infallibility ruling over all creation. If there is in fact a "God," what was he doing before creating the universe and life as we know it? In his Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx remarked that "religion is the opiate of the masses." Isn't it conceivable that God is in fact a man made creation used to explain the unexplainable? And most perplexing to me is that the last supposed appearance of God on Earth was more than two thousand years ago. Wouldn't now, in an age where man has the ability to destroy himself and his world so many times over be a far better time for him to make his presence known? When I've asked Christians why they believe the way they do, the most common response I get is "Because the Bible tells me to." I fail to see how so many people can put their faith in a book that has been adapted and revised many times over by humans who want to bring it into line to suit their own personal agendas. I know that faith means believing in something when common sense says not to, but it all seems just so far fetched to me. No disrespect is intended to those who do believe, as all men are entitled to believe as they choose. But talk about your proverbial "leap of faith"and maybe some can appreciate my point of view. I hope that in some way this makes at least a certain amount of sense. I think that I have discovered one immutable fact about Christianity. And that is that a large number of people who call themselves Christians are anything but. They feel that as long as they ask for the Lord's forgiveness on the Sabbath, it gives them free reign to act in any manner they choose during the rest of the week, be it immoral, illegal or unethical. This is something I've witnessed first hand, and the practitioners seem to exhibit no remorse whatsoever for their actions. Hypocrisy seems to be the order of the day for so many. I have difficulty understanding how an omnipotent being could allow this behavior to go unchecked during a person's mortal life only to punish them in the hereafter (if it in fact exists.) A question that no living being can answer definitively. Please understand that this is in no way an indictment of those that choose to live according to the precepts of Christianity. If done honestly and earnestly, there may in fact be no better way to live. It would, at the very least, seem an admirable pursuit.

Respectfully,

Hollis

[mrsl]

Being raised in the Roman Catholic religion, going to their schools and married in the church, I couldn't wait to get out when I was divorced. By then I had found so many holes in their fabric, and nobody who could sew them up with any sensible threads other than "Have Faith", I have my own private little religion between me and God. Of course many of the tenets that were so ingrained in me in all those years of schooling, are still there like guilty conscience lurking on each side of my shoulders.

IN any case I don't go for the heavy/deep religious themed movies such as have been mentioned thus far. Halfway through Lion in Winter, Kate had me wanting to tear my hair out while she debated her life choices. However, I do like the light hearted movies that come around occasionally. Our wonderful Stars in My Crown comes to mind. Angel in my Pocket with Andy Griffith is another, The Bishops Wife, Going My Way, and Bells of St. Mary all come to mind as pleasant hours spent in front of the TV without getting the feeling of being pushed into something. There are loads more where family values are paraded out like Macy's, but none of them are harmful.

And of course, there is always that wonderful little on/off button.

Anne

[movieman1957]

Hollis:

It's free will. People have the ability to choose how they live their lives. God doesn't interfere with that choice. He has a plan that we were not always meant to comprehend.

I agree that Christians are often their own worst enemies. They do things they think they have been given permission from on high to do when that is not really the case. Some of the history is ugly.

If Christians tell you they believe because the Bible tells them to then they are missing the point. They should believe because they have a personal relationship with God. All that comes after from the Bible is instruction and enlightenment. The passage you mention about prayer goes to the heart of the relationship in that it is one on one. Jesus even spoke against displays of prayer for the sake of showing off. Prayer is a personal thing. That is its purpose. Even with that we were not meant to do life alone. Fellowship and friendship are among the greatest gifts.

I think God is to big and complicated to be man made. That doesn't mean we've left ourselves out of the definition at some point. Religion is largely man made. There in lies the problem. Religions are often so caught up in their rules and traditions and legalities that are self imposed that they miss the point.

Man's nature is sinful (biblically.) We were created, I believe, to have a relationship with God but he wasn't going to force us. He allows things to happen. I have at least four people who are part of my church band or their family members who are dealing with cancer. No one sees it as punishment. Most are doing well. They provide strength and often an example on dealing with adversity. Indeed most of their ability to deal with this is their relationship with God.

Your questions are natural enough. I only wanted to take a minute to tell you that all is not as it seems. We fail. We make mistakes. We ask forgiveness and go on all the while trying to do the best we can. At least that is this Christian's attempt to answer some of your thoughts.

[charliechaplinfan]

I think a person's faith is between themselves and a higher order. I've been brought up a Catholic. My grandmother and great auntie had such faith, there was no doubt in their minds. They truly believed in the teachings of the church and they lived their lives in a very Christian, generous and gentle way. This is what I'd like to be. I still follow the Catholic religion and am bringing the childen up as part of it. When they grow up, it's their choice. If my church and myself have managed to instill enough faith into them to be a Catholic and a churchgoer of their own free will good, at least by taking them to church I have given them the tools to make up their own mind.

Someone else mentioned Catholic guilt, I'm not immune, the religious teachings here have changed so much from my childhood, the strictness has completely disappeared.

Hollis mentioned the type of churchgoer who thinks because they go to church they are immune for the rest of the week. There is also the church goer who's brand of religion or piousness is better than anyone elses. To me these people are not following the teachings of the Christian church and they cast a bad light on religion.

I believe that the fundamental teachings of Christianity are about tolerance, love, giving and kindness. These are qualities that all of us can share no matter what we believe in.

Hope I haven't sounded too preachy.

My two favorite movies that deal with faith are Ordet directed by Dreyer and Miracle In Milan directed by Victor De Sica. Each film has a central character who truly believes in the power of God and miracles happen because of their belief.

It's that believe and purity that I love.

The Passion of Jeanne D'Arc is another. You really get the felling Joan is on her way to sainthood, she is obviously human and suffering but transformed by her belief in God.

[jdb1]

These are issues very delicate to discuss, and I hope those of you who are reading this thread are not taking any offense at our honest and thoughtful expressions of opinion.

I have spent most of my life from an early age contemplating these issues. Coming from a mixed religous background (Roman Catholic and Jewish), I consider myself fortunate to have had been exposed to more than one religious/theological/cultural point of view from a young age. Both sides of my family were very open to other points of view, and I hope I have absorbed the better elements of both schools of thought.

There is a lot of organized religious activity going on in NYC today, and many different sects are springing up constantly. I think this has more to do with the great infusion of population here over the last 20 years, and the need for people to belong to and be identified with something. I don't see anything essentially wrong with that, but what I have observed is a cynical exploitation of that need, and that worries me.

I agree wholeheartedly with what some of you have said: my relationship with God is between me and God, and I don't feel the need to make any public displays on that count. However, the temple and the church (and I attend both from time to time) provide another service to us, and that is to give us a sense of community and continuity with the past, which some people may need to experience more than others do.

To tell you the truth, I prefer to hear the Catholic mass in Latin -- that gives me much more of a sense of "communion" than to hear it in English. Once I heard and read the English translations of the mass, I was ready to go back to hearing it in Latin. But Latin masses are hard to come by in NYC these days, although a few churches still do it, usually at the crack of dawn.

Since my feeling is that it's the connection, and not the method, that counts, I like to attend services in many different churches, to see what it's like. I feel just as comfortable in a Hindu temple as I do in an Episcopal church -- they are both working toward the same end. I think that in the case of faith, it's the message, not the medium, that counts.

[charliechaplinfan]

I think you touched on something very important, the feeling of community and belonging to a community. In the past mothers would stay home and a lot of the houses in a street would be inhabited during a day. When we first lived here and were both working full time we might see our neighbours on the street once in a while. When it's winter it's too dark outside, only in summer did we see something of them. Apart from at church on a Sunday. It encourages communities to get together, especially for the older people. It arranges a mini bus service to get the older people together for bingo nights, take them to church, the buses are driven by people in the community, same with meals on wheels.

It's nice to be able to foster a community spirit.

Ultimately I hope what we are judged on is how we live our live and how we treat others .

[Hollis]

Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to explain certain things to me without being judgmental while doing so. It's without a doubt a very complex subject and there are no easy answers for many of us. Your point about having free will is perhaps the most salient point you made. What confuses me about free will though is that God (if he/she is up there) will allow an individual to employ their will and in so many instances it results in the loss of an innocent life, someone who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. A small child killed by a drunk driver or caught in the crossfire of a drug deal gone wrong. I've been told that God had already determined that it was part of his plan for that child to be "called home" at that moment in time. But the loss of potential and the grief that is caused for their loved ones just seems so totally unnecessary. Similarly, the young mother killed during a robbery while shopping for groceries to feed her family because the perpetrator is afraid she'd be able to identify him later as the party who committed the act. Like Judith, I was raised in a multicultural household (Martian and Venusian) too. Actually dad was a MidWestern Methodist and mom a Northeastern Jew. Talk about a clash of cultures. But it seemed to serve them well, and it introduced me to concepts I might not have been exposed to in a more traditional household. It certainly led to some interesting discussions to say the very least. I'm also sure that it led in a large way to me being tolerant of others at a relatively early age and taught me that people are more alike than they are different

[movieman1957]

Thank you Hollis. I never want to come across judgmental. It's not my place and never my intent.

Believe me when I say we struggle with those kinds of losses. Certainly in a big picture they make no sense but in the small world in which that victim lived it might, someday. Then again maybe not. If those things were to happen with no consequences than what we learn? What progress would we make?

Glad you're able to be on. Rest easy friend.

[charliechaplinfan]

Coming from a community where it was not the done thing for my parents generation to marry a Anglican or vice versa an Anglican to marry a Catholic, they faced social ostracism. The tales of your families that are from different religions rather than different denominations show a greater openess and acceptance in the USA than here. Perhaps it's a result of the different cultures that make up the tapestry that is America. I think it's great.

[MichiganJ]

I had the honor of rooming with a Catholic while in college, and with me minoring in philosophy, we’d get into some very interesting discussions. While he did his best, many aspects of Christianity still confuse me.

For instance, I must confess that I don’t understand the concept of Free Will at all. This seems to contradict many aspects of the Bible. God said something like (paraphrasing, of course) “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. And before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.” Does Jeremiah (forgive me if I have the name wrong) actually have a choice here? Can he say, no thanks, I’d rather sell shoes? Isn’t God essentially saying that he knows exactly what Jeremiah will do for the whole of his entire life, and that’s why God created him in the first place?

More troubling to me is at the Last Supper: Jesus tells Peter that Peter will deny him (Jesus) three times. Peter, of course, says that this will not happen, but, again, does he have a choice? If he does, and doesn’t deny Jesus, then what? What if he denies him twice? Was Jesus (aka God) wrong? That’s impossible, isn’t it? So, Peter must deny Jesus three times, whether he “chooses” to or not.

Obviously I’m missing something here, but it’s the logic behind the whole thing that baffles me. (In college I’d wait ‘til my roomie was almost asleep and then ask: “Can God, who is perfect by definition, create something imperfect? If so, why? Why not just create perfection?”)

One of the most spiritual movies I’ve seen would be Scorsese’s Last Temptation of Christ. One of the few films that gave me a better understanding of Jesus and the sacrifice he made. (And there’s the inspired casting of Harvey Keitel as Judas!)
The absolute least favorite must be Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ. In my view the film was no better then a religious snuff film.

[jdb1]

You know, Alison, I read only recently in some newpaper or magazine feature article (I have to start cutting/printing those things out so I remember the sources) that the average American changes religious affiliation at least once in his/her life. I suppose it's one of the advantages of our not having to conform to any one state-endorsed religion. If we can't find a satisfactory answer to our cosmic questions under one system, we usually have no compunctions about looking elsewhere for answers.

As I get older and see more and more gray areas where I previously saw only the black and white of things, I am convinced that it doesn't really matter much what you call yourself, as long as you adhere to a loving, fair, productive and responsible lifestyle.

[charliechaplinfan]

Amen to that. I completely agree. If every single one of us lived life in a fair, loving, productive and responsible way the world would be a happier place and I believe the majority of us do live like that.