Charlie's Loves

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charliechaplinfan
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Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I've had time to catch up on some reading recently some of it relating to Charlie Chaplin. The books are

Georgia Hale An Intimate Memoir

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork ... ting*title

Chaplin Genius of the Cinema

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork ... ting*title

Chaplin was a complicated man, a self absorbed genius who achieved marital harmony only with his last marriage to Oona O'Neil although he was with Paulette Goddard for a number of years. In his autobiography he speaks of his love for Paulette as being born of loneliness.

He was obviously catnip for some ladies, Georgia Hale thought him her lucky star even before she met him and put up with some terrible behaviour and always forgiven. She speaks of him as two seperate people, the artist which was the nice side and the man who was self absorbe party animal. Lita Grey said similar although I take her memoirs to be slanted.

The most intriguing lady in his life for me is Edna Purviance. In the mutual comedies, possibly my favorite films, there is a real flirtation and enjoyment between them. Edna is a bit of an enigma, I'd love to know more about her, she never wrote her memoirs which is a shame. One hears of her only in relation to Chaplin, her failure to make the big time put down to her increasing alcohol habit. The habit in itself attributed to the disappointment she felt when Chaplin married Mildred Harris. Chaplin in his autobiography says that she gave him the run around with Thomas Meighan. No doubt if he married the gentle Edna he wouldn't have had the bad experiences of his two first marriages.

I always though too that the relationship with Oona was perfect but Georgia says that he wanted to run away with her the night before he married Oona. Who knows?

The question of Charlie's love life has always intrigued me, not the smut but the romantic. He had unconventional tastes and was undoubtedly a difficult man. I wonder if anyone else has anything to add
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
jdb1

Post by jdb1 »

Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the 18-year-old Oona looked just like a young Charles Chaplin, giving Chaplin the opportunity to sleep with himself (you may insert something less euphemistic here) every night without raising too many eyebrows.

Their children look like perfect blends of the two, which wasn't all that hard to achieve since the parents resembled each other so much.

Is it all that terrible? I don't think so. There are people in this world with tremendous egos, and if they can find ways to satisfy those egos without making other people unhappy, why not? Lord knows Chaplin must have unthinkingly made a lot of people unhappy in his time.
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charliechaplinfan
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Post by charliechaplinfan »

I can see the resemblance once Oona and Charlie aged. I never thought of the similarity when Oona was younger. I've always thought it was strange that he settled down with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter after he'd failed in his other relationships. Is it that he reached an age in his life when he turned away from the social side of Hollywood and realised what he wanted.

I'm drawn to Chaplin because he was so complex, he has so many positives and negatives.

I'm drawn to Edna because she seemed so nice, it was a shame that she never did carve herself a career but it wasn't for lack of opportunity.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
stuart.uk
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by stuart.uk »

Alison

If Charlie had married Edna, he might not have ended up with Oona. I wonder to how Charlie might have coped with Edna, who suffered from ill health and as far as I believe aged prematurley.

It seems that Edna was devastated by the, despite the fact she was the guilty party, break-up of her relationship with Charlie. If she'd married Charlie and things worked out, she could very well have been his leading lady in The Gold Rush and City Lights. I certainly think she and Charlie were among the great romantic screen partnerships of the cinema. I also think in The Kid, her moving scenes with Jackie Coogan, show what an underrated actress she was

I sometimes write to a Linda Wada, who runs a website dedicated to Edna
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I think my favorite films of Charlie's are the Mutual comedies and Edna is a large part of these comedies. Their chemistry at this point is the best there has been in cinema, I can't think of many other screen couples who measure up.

I'm not sure Edna has ever had a biography written about her. If she has I'd love to read it. One of the problems when trying to find out about her is that her history is written through books about Charlie. Charlie himself says that Edna was unfaithful with Thomas Meighan and that soured the personal relationship between Edna and Charlie, it's probably true although what Charlie probably neglected to say is that he was unfaithful too. He also says she was too clingy and demanding. What occured from the early twenties was her drinking, which Charlie thought unprofessional, that caused weight gain and made it more difficult for her to gain leading lady status. He was very loyal to her though.

It's possible in the early days they could have married and she may have made him happy and that might have kept her away from the booze and in better health. My understanding of her health problems are that they were largely drink related.

I would love to know more of her story, does your friend have a website?
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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MichiganJ
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by MichiganJ »

stuart.uk wrote
I also think in The Kid, her moving scenes with Jackie Coogan, show what an underrated actress she was
If you haven't already, you should see her in A Woman of Paris. She's brilliant.
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stuart.uk
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by stuart.uk »

I get the impression because of the failure of A Woman Of Paris, it was the begining of the end of Edna as an actress. She had an unfinished film I think called The Seaguls, plus a scandel involving the now self destructive Mabel Normand finally put a nail in her coffin. However, Charlie stuck by her, paying her a salary for the rest of her days.I agree from the odd footage I've seen she looks really good in AWOP

Alison, here's two links. One is Linda's website and another a book about Edna's unfinished movie. I sometimes send her updated links regarding Claire Bloom. I was disappointed I couldn't get her performance in New Tricks on You Tube.

The first link didn't work, but you'll still be okay as link number two is the same website anyway

Edna Purviance - Charlie Chaplin's Leading Lady - Welcome to Paradise
Chaplin's leading lady between 1915 to 1923. Purviance played in 34 films with Chaplin. Information on her life and birth place, as well as related information.

http://www.ednapurviance.org · Cached page
Edna Purviance - home of The Sea Gull book - special shop for Edna ...
THE SEA GULL "A WOMAN OF THE SEA" by Linda Wada Charlie Chaplin's lost 1926 film, starring Edna Purviance, directed by Josef von Sternberg. KEVIN BROWNLOW

ednapurviance.com · Cached page
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TikiSoo
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by TikiSoo »

Celebrities marrying look alikes is common....look at Mick & Bianca Jaggar and David & Angie Bowie.

The topic of a creative genius's marriages and home life is of great interest to me too. I've been involved with people who are brilliant in their public careers and infantile in their personal relationships and am facinated with the dilemma as long as I'm not in it! A scribbled quote I keep on my desk: "As is the case with all original creators, Charles Chaplin's working life was an amalgam of arrogant self confidence and deflating self doubt." (I'd guess that was written by Garson Kanin) That blend of contrasts is a recipe for disaster for many long term relationships.

I thoroughly enjoyed Paulette by Morella & Epstein (isbn 0-312-59829-7) as a window into her life with Chaplin. It never comes off as mean or insulting. If anything it emphasizes how hard Chaplin tried to make his relationships work, but was clueless at basic understanding of others. Although I love Paulette, the authors make no attempt to hide her love of celebrity and the "good" life, which I'm sure contributed to their demise as a couple.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I like Paulette Goddard, I think they both wanted to make it work, I'm sure there was plenty of love there. Paulette comes off glowingly in the books I've read about Charlie, especially when it came to his children. Until Paulette came on the scene he didn't see his children by Lita. That's something I don't understand, I know he suffered terribly and had a breakdown because of the divorce but here was man who didn't really know his father, you'd have thought he would have been a presence in their lives. Once Paulette encouraged them to be together I think the relationship was quite strong.

As regards trying to make his marriages work. I'm not sure about Mildred Harris, they were mismatched and he was allegedly trapped into matrimony. Read Lita Grey's acount and she has done been quite frank in her memoirs and in the secrets of their marriage revealed in the glare of the court. I'm sure she used quite a lot of artistic liceence, I think Charlie got out of there as soon as he could. Lita wrote another book in her later years after Chaplin had died and softened a lot of the worst allegations in the first book. The second book is very expensive and hard to find.

Thanks for the links Stuart. I'll follow them and read up on her. What made you look for Edna's website, do you have a special liking for her?
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by TikiSoo »

charliechaplinfan wrote: but here was man who didn't really know his father, you'd have thought he would have been a presence in their lives. Once Paulette encouraged them to be together I think the relationship was quite strong.
This reinforces what I said earlier. Chaplin has no example of good relationships growing up, so he was clueless HOW to be a good parent. Paulette stepped in and gave him an example of how rewarding a parent/child relationship can be and how to go about nurturing it. Chaplin was a brilliant and sensitive man and could understand and learn by her example.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

He's a fascinatingly complex man. I think he needed to meet Paulette and she did him immeasurable good. I like the fact that they ended up neighbours and friends and she never felt the need to talk about their private life. For the entertainment world that's good going.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by stuart.uk »

Alison

As I've said before Charlie and Edna to me were as an attractive screen couple as Bogie/Bacall, Flynn/De Havillaind and Wayne/O'Hara. I also think she was a highly underrated actress of the silent era.

I remember in the 60s or maybe early 70s Chaplin shorts on Saturday mornings with I think whay must have been a narration, because her characters were always referred to as Edna.

I also began to feel, she was the most important love of Charlie's early adult life. I'm not sure if you can include Hetty Kelly, as she was more of a fantasy figure for him. If you take away the fact Lita gave him two sons and Mildred one, Edna was more important to him than they were. Georgia seems to have been important to him, as was Paulette, but then there was Oona. I don't want to appear ageist, but when Edna was begining to lose her looks, through ill health, Oona was still a very young woman. As I wondered in a previous post, how would Chaplin have coped in later life with Edna, if he had have married her. He also wouldn't have had his 8 children, possibly not even his older sons, as Edna I don't think had any kids

I think Charlie's hard done by. He's been called a womanizer, but I'm not sure he had many girl-friend in his life. Edna, Mildred, Lita, Pola Negri, Georgia, Paulette, Joan Barry and Oona. Come to think of it, that's still quite a handful LOL. Others will say, look how many children he had, not realizing he only had three sons, until he was in his 50s. Then he married a teenager, who for twenty-years-regulary gave him a child, in the end 8.
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I think most of us develop through the relationships we have with the opposite sex and not very many of us meet the right one first time. People who have had stable upbringings tend to find it easier to settle into longlasting relationships, others people it might take a little longer. I think Charlie had the desire to have a wife and family, not so much early on in his career but later when he'd established himself. His failed relationships are part of the man he was, his relationships with both Paulette and OOna showed that he wanted stability.

With Edna And Charlie I think if it was meant to have been that they married they would have done so. At the time of their emotional seperation neither seemed to suffer too much, perhaps later Edna come to realise what she'd let go.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by Synnove »

He was obviously catnip for some ladies, Georgia Hale thought him her lucky star even before she met him and put up with some terrible behaviour and always forgiven. She speaks of him as two seperate people, the artist which was the nice side and the man who was self absorbe party animal. Lita Grey said similar although I take her memoirs to be slanted.
I get this from reading his autobiography too. Sometimes he could be really humanistic and very sensitive, you see where the film-Chaplin's artistry comes from. And then you read something that makes you think, this is awful, how can I enjoy this man's movies? In the end we're all human. Chaplin's childhood was really difficult, he hadn't really known much stability and his mother became mentally ill. The age difference between Chaplin and Oona never seemed like a problem because apparently they clicked together and it worked.

I agree with Stuart.uk though, considering the way Chaplin appeared in his autobiography, I have a hard time imagining him staying married to Edna at that stage in his life. He was constantly fascinated with good-looking young women wasn't he. There's something very romantic about the outlook he shows in his films, especially in the way he presents the ladies. I wonder if he maybe was a romantic when it came to relationships after all, even though he could act horribly towards women. Maybe his staying happily married to Oona meant he finally wanted to settle down though like Alison says.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Charlie's Loves

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I hope this doesn't sound awful but is it possible that the time he met Oona because he was older he didn't have as many women throwing themselves at him and that made him believe a longer relationship was possible. He was completely forced inot his first marriage he says as much himself. He was trapped again into number two but that is his own fault, he should have known better. Paulette and Charlie showed real signs of trying to stay together.

Something that was mentioned on the 'what have you read thread'. This book



has been written with a psychiatrist's evaluation of his work. Something I didn't realise until I read the review of the book that his mother's madness had been caused by syphilis. Seeing as this book is endorsed by Geraldine Chaplin there's no reason not to believe it. It sheds a different light on the madness, that can't have been hereditary but also his penchant for young girls, the would have been clean.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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