Did Louis B Mayer really sabotage John Gilbert's career?

[charliechaplinfan]

That's an interesting review Dredm. When reading biographies we are only presented with what the author wants us to read, so it's good to see a different opinion.

The thing that struck me most about seeing him in Fastworkers is that he was still incredibly handsome and lithe with it, very different to Gable who was broad and solid. I can take either and be quite happy but the audeinces made their choices apparent.

[drednm]

Yes I thought it was interesting. I flicked through rerviews (free and easily found) for all of Gilbert's early talkies; NY Times reviewer Mordaunt Hall never said a bad word about his voice. He didn't always like the films but that was more the fault of MGM. Even for Redemption the voice reviews are fine.

My hunch is that "voice" problems was only brought up by the studios (and echoed in the tabloids) after the early talkies flopped. This was likely for true for most of the silent stars who faltered in talkies.

[JackFavell]

It's very easy for stars of that period who did not transition for whatever reason, to get mashed together under the title of "bad voice" - Gloria Swanson, Lillian Gish, Buster Keaton all ended up transitioning pretty well, but had sub- par movies and roles, and therefore dropped out of the top ranks... and yet, I still see occasional blurbs questioning their vocal abilities, smoe critics saying that their voices did not match their silent personality. I think the fall of some of these stars had more to do with public taste changing, age and remarkably poor films.

I think Gilbert would have eventually transitioned had he not been a victim of ill health and alcohol.

[drednm]

Gilbert's drinking was more the result of dealing with vicious Mayer and MGM in general. I agree with your assessment of Swanson, Gish, Keaton and I think Gilbert fits this group (along with Pickford, Fairbanks, Bow, Haines, Barthelmess, Novarro, Davies, etc.) Their reasons for fading away had little to do with their voices. Colleen Moore is another. She had a terrific voice but her first 2 quickly made talkies flopped.

Even some who were big hits in early talkies, maybe bigger than they were in silents, faded away because of lousy choices by studios: Bessie Love, Betty Compson, Dorothy Mackaill, Evelyn Brent, Alice White, etc....

[JackFavell]

Absolutely, Dred!

Thanks for listing how many other stars went through the same thing... there were so many! We see them today, these actors who are great in the pre-codes and we wonder what happened.

The thing is, it wasn't only that sound movies came into popularity - there were other big changes happening in the country, too, requiring different personalities. It had happened before, in the twenties the same way - those who were popular before WWI were suddenly seen as old-fashioned. By 1929, some of the twenties stars were starting to be past their prime, which always happens. Others, like Ramon Novarro, did become limited by their voices, his accent made his ability to take on any role a little harder - he had to have roles tailored to him. But I really do think that a more rugged leading man and a wiser leading lady were required for audiences who were facing hardships of their own. A fainting, high born Delores Costello was not going to play in the cities and towns facing hard times. The actresses who did transition - like Mary Astor and Garbo - did so in roles that were far different - working class women. The same with the men - we needed working class heroes, not get rich quick college boys and manor born roues.....

[drednm]

and I forgot Ben Lyon and Bebe Daniels.....

[drednm]

and yes, many of the silent stars simply did not have images that fit the new medium of sound or the Great Depression.

Gloria Swanson had a smash hit talkie debut in 1929 with The Trespasser playing a secretary who marries the boss' son, has a baby, splits up, etc. But she chose a weak comedy with a blah supporting cast, What a Widow for her followup (she needed the cash, having been bankrupted by Queen Kelly). After that misstep she made two quite good films that allowed her to sing (as she had done in The Trespasser) with strong leading men, Ben Lyon and Melvyn Douglas, but for some reason the glitzy prima donna character she played in Indiscreet and Tonight or Never didn't click with 30s audiences.

She then made a British drama with the rising Laurence Olivier, Perfect Understanding, but it was good, not great (although the boat race is exciting and Swanson looks great). Her final attempt was Music in the Air, based on a Broadway hit. But the operetta about battling co-stars who are married had too much of the subplot (Douglass Montgomery and June Lang) and not enough of Swanson and John Boles. Indeed, Swanson doesn't even get a big production number although the plot seems to lead up to what becomes a truncated number.

[charliechaplinfan]

Some stars saw the transition to sound as the natural ending of their careers, I can't blame the Talmadge sisters for quitting when they did. Times changed, the stock market crashed and understandably tastes changed. I think the three I lament the most are John Gilbert, Buster Keaton and Clara Bow, each one had their own problems that kept them from delivering good talkies but from all three there are some good performances either in good movies of their own or good performances they turned in from the sub standard movies they were given.

It makes all the more remarkable the longevity of Chaplin and Laurel and Hardy, neither really changed what they had been doing.

[JackFavell]

I think those are the most heartbreaking for me too CCFan, because in each case, it seemed like such a needless waste of talent.

[charliechaplinfan]

Yes and of all the silent stars they seemed the most vulnerable and lovable but that might just be my take on it.