Did Louis B Mayer really sabotage John Gilbert's career?

[charliechaplinfan]

Which biography of Thalberg did you read? I think he has brought out two, one with lots of accompanying photographs and another fuller biography. I bought the first one of these and was very impressed with it. I'm enjoying Scott Eyman's book too. These books have brought both men to life for me and the truth and sympathy probably lies in the middle ground. I think Thalberg could be stubborn and money minded and not above blaming Mayer for difficult decisions that needed to be made but he had a far greater empathy with the directors and stars on the lot. Mayer could hold a grudge like no other and sometimes did throw his weight around. When Jean Howard married Charlie Feldman (Howard had been Mayer's bit on the side) mayer rang up the other studios and wanted them to cease doing business with Feldman and his clients, that was impossible because Feldman had some big names on his books.

The story about Marie Dressler is absolutely awful if true. Before reading this book I thought he'd protected her, I didn't realise he'd squeezed more films out of her and cheated her out of a bonus of $100,000. The Eyman book does mention that this is completely out of character with how he was shown to behave with others.

I think if I'd have had a relation who was married to John Gilbert, I'd be extremely proud of the connection. I think his excesses have been blown up to make them sound far worse than they were. Anyone who manages to rise out of the kind of childhood he had and then tries to educate themselves and in doing so educates themselves to a level that they can write a film script, that's a special person. I think he would have been excellent as a writer and character actor, not that LB Mayer would have let him get established.

[rudyfan]

Alison, I have both. The new bio was published late 2009 and is an excellent read. Happy news for me, the author Mark Vieira has consented to do an interview for my podcast. I'm thrilled!

[drednm]

As for John Gilbert's excesses.... Colleen Moore seems to have been a reliable witness although by the time she published her autobiography, the stories about Gilbert had been long established as Hollywood fact.

Gilbert remained one of Hollywood's best tennis players, hard to do if your're a total souse. Fountain's book doesn't overlook Gilbert's bad habits and bad choices (especially with women) but she also gets to the core of Gilbert: he absolutely loved making pictures. He would have been just as happy writing and directing and wasn't hung up on being a star (but that's where the big money was). He went where the money was.

Fountain (who barely knew her father) paints Gilbert as a man devouted to his craft, popular with co-workers, and without pretention even at the height of his fame.

I believe it was in Kevin Brownlow's spectacular "Hollywood" series where Leatrice Joy is interviewed about Gilbert. This must have been 40 years or more after the fact. She's asked something about Gilbert and she starts crying and says something like, "Do I answer that with my head or my heart?"

I guess the bottom line here for Gilbert is that whatever the relationship was between Gilbert and Mayer (and Thalberg) and whatever it was based on will never really be known. What is known is that Mayer and Thalberg did absoluetely nothing to save Gilbert and his career.

[charliechaplinfan]

Alison, I have both. The new bio was published late 2009 and is an excellent read. Happy news for me, the author Mark Vieira has consented to do an interview for my podcast. I'm thrilled!

I would be thrilled too, he's a good author. I can see that I'll be buying the companion book with my birthday money later in the year.

"Do I answer that with my head or my heart?" I remember that Dredm, it was a heartfelt moment.

[Gagman 66]

Alison,

There were a bunch of clips from Gilbert's THE COSSACKS on Youtube. Not the complete film, but about half of it. Most were removed by Warner's last May, but three of them still seem to be there. The mere fact that the clips were removed, gave me some slim hope that Warner's might be planning to do something with the movie in the near future. Here are the links to the three clips that still remain. Unfortunately, the opening sequence is cut short. It is memorable when Ernest Torrence character ivan, catch's his son Lucashka, helping his mother with the womanly chores. Further causing him to doubt the boys bravery and metal. Wish that was still viewable. Renee Adoree's chemistry with both Jack and Nils Asther is undeniable. Finally she has had a couple films released through Warner archive. TIDE OF EMPIRE and THE PAGAN. So very good news there. Nice to see THE PAGAN issued in time for Dorothy Janis 100th Birtday next month. Let's hope she makes it.



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[JackFavell]

Beautiful stills, Jeff! Woo-hoo.... look at that dazzling smile under all that fur. swoon.

[Gagman 66]

Wendy,

Thanks. Here are a few more stills from the picture I have worked on. I know these don't meet the size restrictions here. I'm sorry. They have been reduced considerably already.

[JackFavell]

Gosh. What a visceral reaction those photos stirred up in me..... how gorgeous they both are, and just plain sexy.

[charliechaplinfan]

Jeffrey, those pictures are gorgeous, you've done a good job, they're perfect illustration for this thread.

I'm still rattling through the Mayer book, he's just left MGM, it's a great book for vignettes about the stars, directors etc as well as the story of MGM.

[Gagman 66]

Thanks. The Rolling in the Haystck stills are bit to bright, now that I have turned up the contrast and brightness on my monitor a hair or two. Here are a couple more candid production shots taken on the set of the THE COSSACKS.




"Strum Like A Russian!"




"Cossacks Have More Fun!"

[charliechaplinfan]

It's a pity Renee Adoree isn't better known today.

[intothenitrate]

Paging Mr. Obvious:

I had recorded "Flesh and the Devil" and "Love" a while back, but just now (yesterday) got around to seeing them. I think John Gilbert is great! [But you guys knew that already].

The print of "Love" is interesting because there's a live orchestral score. I say "live" because you can hear an audience here and there on the soundtrack. It must have been a big, live screening someplace.

There's a big laugh when Gilbert first sees Garbo. His expression is a little exaggerated--but not like Valentino in "The Sheik" or anything. I replayed the portion a few times, and then paid attention to other audience reactions throughout the rest of the film. This is just my own unfounded speculation, but I think that that "modern audience" was really with him, not laughing at him.

It's a shame he didn't continue on, the way Gilbert Roland did. He could have given a lot of on-screen avuncular advice to the next generation of male love interests.

[JackFavell]

I think that sometimes with all the talk about career sabotage, whether his voice was ok or not, that we forget that Gilbert was a highly gifted actor. In fact, I think that there are few better at conveying emotion without words. Lon Chaney and Chaplin are the only two I can think of right now. He also bridged two acting styles - that of the teens and that of the twenties. He simply couldn't be a bridge to the thirties as well. He tried, but didn't have the help he needed.

Though not always subtle, he still has moments of great nuance and finesse. His ability to transmit exactly what he is feeling directly to the heart of the audience is masterful. No actor more clearly expressed emotions that the audience immediately UNDERSTOOD and empathized with. WE KNOW. Thus the laughter in that scene you spoke of is one of recognition - If we were suddenly confronted with Garbo, we too would be falling all over ourselves, smitten with love at first sight. I am willing to bet that just moments after that initial grand meeting, the audience was enthralled by the story and were moved by the end of the film.

There are sections of The Big Parade, most of it, I would say, where Gilbert is incredibly light and subtle, expressing growing feelings with a delicate touch. His scenes with Renee Adoree are exceptionally fine, and he communicates more to us than he does to her. Look at the relaxed way he "talks" to her... he is glib in the use of body language and gesture, though his character is not. His ease at coming up with ways to communicate without speaking is marvelous. These moments are NEVER forced, only the "great lover" moments in his films seem a little ardent. But I think we also forget that ardent is good. His characters in these roles are supposed to be swept away by their emotions. In Flesh and the Devil, he falls so completely and rapturously (and he really did), he cannot stop himself. If his slide were not so great, then would we care? His growing disgust with himself is obvious, as is his inability to end his obsession. The scourging passion he feels is strangling him, and he must abandon himself to it. On some level, we NEED John Gilbert to be that "great lover", to fall deeply and hopelessly. His fall from Hollywood does not seem out of character with the man in these films. We have so little love in our lives... can't we appreciate this man's love instead of ridiculing it? I think we can, and modern audiences ought to be given the chance more often.

[Gagman 66]

Wendy,

Terrific coments , That is an excellent evaluation on your behalf.Recently, on January 7th a couple friends of mine got to see King Vidor's HIS HOUR (1924) at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. They loved the movie and now hope to see something done with it to give the film more expousure. Here was their short appraisials. I sure wish I could have been there too.

"HIS HOUR was FAN-tastic! Beautiful sets and costumes! Ah the jewels and the furs! Jack was great as the Russian prince....very sexy and menacing in his shiny boots and regalia and Aileen Pringle was very pretty and natural as Tamara. She had lovely gowns and was dripping in mink and diamonds throughout the entire movie. There were some very risque scenes depicting debauchery and Gilbert and Pringle had a FAB kiss in a sleigh that I don't know HOW it made it past the censors. Also, the intertitles were in Czech so we we had to figure out the story ourselves but that wasn't hard to do at all."

I would love to see this film restored. Do you know if WB has any plans to do so?" The MoMA will be showing The Big Parade on February 24, 25 & 26 and if the turnout is good it may just convince them that the renewed interest in John Gilbert is not just a fluke.

I cannot say enough about HIS HOUR. In addition to the fine acting by Gilbert and Pringle and the magnificent costumes and sets (no expense was spared), this was a real bodice-ripper with the same sex-menace that sent shivers down the spines of female audiences who swooned for Valentino. This film is a prime example of the high quality silent films that were being produced at MGM during its early years.

[drednm]

Here's a snippet from the NY Times 1929 review of His Glorious Night. The review is positive and says about John Gilbert:

Mr. Gilbert's responsibility does not lie with his lines and therefore he is to be congratulated on the manner in which he handles this speaking rôle. His voice is pleasant, but not one which is rich in nuances. His performance is good, but it would benefit by the suggestion of a little more wit. He, as one might presume, wears his officer's uniform as if he were bred in the army traditions.

Nothing said about a high or effeminate voice. Again this is the film Gilbert made after Redemption although it was released as his starring talkie debut.