WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Chit-chat, current events
Mr. Arkadin
Posts: 2645
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

JackFavell wrote:As much as I like Gena Rowlands and the horse, I've never been able to get through to the end of Lonely Are the Brave. Sorry.
Skip to 5:07 for a rundown of the ending:

[youtube][/youtube]
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

That made me to see True West more than LAtB! :) What a terrific scene!

Chris, I think my attention span is sorely lacking as far as this movie is concerned. Yes, I found it dull.
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

For a modern day western considered great by some people, "Lonely" disappoints me too. It's not a bad movie. But not one I would include in a discussion of classics. As for Steppenwolf Theatre's TRUE WEST, this is one of the finest televised plays I've ever seen. Sam Shepard's best work by far, the intensity is exciting, suspenseful and terrifying. Malkovich and Sinise were never better. The play is incredibly well written. The show brilliantly produced.

On another thread, we've been discussing the use of vulgar language in movies and TV. Well...sometimes it's worth it!
Mr. Arkadin
Posts: 2645
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

Lonely are the Brave works for me for a variety of reasons.


1)One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest as western.

When you look at Douglas' role, it's clearly based on R.P. McMurphy--right down to breaking out of jail. Douglas loved the book & bought the rights (even played it on stage), but could never get a film made. He finally handed it off to his son, who cleaned up w/Jack Nicholson, saying his dad was too old for the role.

2)Old world code vs. modernity

Morals & ethics from the western are pitted against enlightenment views. The film also deals with the idea of the individual & the collective & conformity. Man against machine/technology is another theme here.

3)Team effort

Although this is a film about one man's struggle, it could never have come off without a great cast, crew, soundtrack, & cinematography. This is one of those small films (like Patch of Blue [1965]) that was daring for it's time & could only be made in the era it sprung from. When you think of the other westerns made in 1962 before the code lifted & the more visceral Spaghetti films appeared in '64, Lonely are the Brave sets itself apart & lives up to its title, standing in the doorway between classic & modern eras of the western genre, just as its story does.
User avatar
movieman1957
Administrator
Posts: 5522
Joined: April 15th, 2007, 3:50 pm
Location: MD

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

The disc had a special feature where it talked about the music. The most notable part being how the fanfare opens like a traditional western and the only times you get that sense with the music is during shots showing the land and the openness of it. (When he arrives at the lake in the early going.) Mostly it is smaller orchestra with a trumpet signaling the lead character.

The music draws those lines between modern and old style westerns as you point to for the film.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

Those are all great reasons to admire this movie, Joel, and it deals with themes I am strongly drawn to. I think you've brilliantly captured it here. I just can't get into the film. I've tried and I'll continue to try again for those same reasons you cite. I do believe the lack is in me, not in the movie. I have a hard time watching Douglas sometimes, I recognize his talent and his affinity for characters who go their own way and who represent non-conformity and I applaud that. I love the look of the film. I just don't like to watch Douglas on his own, and let's face it, he IS the movie for the most part. And of course there's a lot of suspense about the horse which I have a hard time sitting still through. I'll keep trying!
Mr. Arkadin
Posts: 2645
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

Totally understand. There are people who just flat out annoy me & I can't stand watching. Sometimes the the story is so good I enjoy it in spite of them. Other times...
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

You get me so well. :D
User avatar
CineMaven
Posts: 3815
Joined: September 24th, 2007, 9:54 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by CineMaven »

"Lonely Are the Brave." I like the film. Not much happens I guess, but it was interesting to see the nothing happen; to see Kirk's journey. Maybe it's the horse. I love Douglas' horse in this movie. It's the most beautiful animal I have ever seen. Movies have to resonate with us on some level. And if they don't...they don't. And that's okay.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
CineMaven
Posts: 3815
Joined: September 24th, 2007, 9:54 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by CineMaven »

"LONELY ARE THE BRAVE."

Image Image
"You build my gallows high, baby."

http://www.megramsey.com
User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8024
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by moira finnie »

CineMaven, I had the impression that you found Kirk Douglas pretty insufferable? Has your perception of him changed over time? Forgive me if I am remembering your earlier attitude toward Kirk incorrectly or simplistically. Love Lonely Are the Brave too.
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks
User avatar
JackFavell
Posts: 11926
Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

I think perhaps you may have mistaken my opinion for CineMaven's, Moira, though I could be wrong. I'll let her speak for herself. However, I will say that Maven has always seemed shocked at my dislike, and has tried to convince me to delve into Douglas' work more thoughtfully so I might perhaps get over my aversion. I think dear CCFan. Alison, also didn't really GET Kirk Douglas.

I have delved a bit, thanks to Maven and the other folks here at the Oasis who like him, but haven't altogether changed my opinion. While I now really enjoy his performances in Ace in the Hole, A Letter to Three Wives (remarkable), Detective Story, The Bad and the Beautiful, and The Juggler, not to mention his first four ensemble cast, noir film roles in the forties, I can't quite get behind his work as a leading man and star. I find him insufferable, yes, and I think only when playing insufferable types do I really buy him as an actor. There is a lack of feeling, no wait, that isn't right....a lack of depth and simple expressiveness in Douglas that particularly bothers me. While The Juggler seems to have a bit more in terms of character, I still prefer my actors to let the camera come to them, to remain partially hidden from sight, to let their introspection be absorbed by the audience, and Douglas just doesn't have this ability most of the time, to my way of thinking. He'd rather beat the audience senseless with his feelings. This is why I have such a hard time with films like Lust for Life, which makes me laugh, or Young Man With a Horn where the only things I enjoy are watching a surprisingly modern Lauren Bacall taunt Douglas, or Juano Hernandez do anything at all. Once it's up to Douglas alone to carry a movie, or the direction gets a little too overblown, I lose interest. If I were comparing Spartacus to say, The Gladiator, I would take Russell Crowe, because he's all silent, coiled resistance - inward, not outward. I guess I never stop feeling like Douglas is all outward, that he is ACTING, with capital letters.

Anyway, that isn't to say he isn't powerful at times or a good actor. Just that I lack the appreciation for his type of work. :D
RedRiver
Posts: 4200
Joined: July 28th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

My brother, who knows everything, considers THE JUGGLER Kirk's best performance.
User avatar
movieman1957
Administrator
Posts: 5522
Joined: April 15th, 2007, 3:50 pm
Location: MD

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

Wendy:

Your thoughts on Douglas being outward so much may be one of the reasons that "Seven Days In May" is one of my favorite roles he does because he is more inward there. He is more sedate in "Lonely Are The Brave" as well but I don't like the film as much.

Two of his westerns are high on my list, "Gunfight At The OK Corral" and "Last Train From Gun Hill," where his anger is more realistic and maybe more offset by costars. I think certainly so in "Gunfight." Lancaster's calm provides the right opposite attitude there. (Acting or not I've always been impressed by his coughing fit in "Gunfight.")

I very much had that impression of him ACTING in "Detective Story." It doesn't make it a bad film or anything like that but it does make him obvious.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
Mr. Arkadin
Posts: 2645
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

movieman1957 wrote:wo of his westerns are high on my list, "Gunfight At The OK Corral" and "Last Train From Gun Hill," where his anger is more realistic and maybe more offset by costars. I think certainly so in "Gunfight." Lancaster's calm provides the right opposite attitude there. (Acting or not I've always been impressed by his coughing fit in "Gunfight.")
Last Train from Gun Hill is a great one & you see him doing little bits of business that add warmth to his character without being obvious. Gunfight is almost completely the opposite in the fact that he is a very unlikeable character, but here again his role does not seem obvious because of who he's paired with.

While we often can complain about actors and how they play a role, many times it's not specifically their fault. There are some actors who are magnetic and will take over a scene unless the director subdues them. In other cases, that might be exactly what the director wanted. Another issue is interplay among the players. While some actors can elevate lesser thespians (think of Fred MacMurray, Joel McCrea), others seem to be stealing the scene if the people they're working with aren't up to their level. Many of Joan Crawford's critics will jump on her for hamming a scene when the guy she's next to is nothing more than wallpaper. Pair her with Garfield, or anyone of similar stature and that problem disappears. At the end of the road we all have people we don't care for, but you also have to realize that every film does not consist of a single person's performance, just as every dish is not based on single components. The components themselves might be great or not so great, but its the blending and harmonizing of the individual items that create a harmonious piece of work that one can enjoy--or not.
Post Reply