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Choose The Best Noir: Poll Results

Moderators: Sue Sue Applegate, movieman1957, moira finnie, Lzcutter

Out of the Past or Touch of Evil ?

Poll ended at June 11th, 2008, 9:15 am

Out of the Past
10
48%
Touch of Evil
11
52%
 
Total votes: 21

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cinemalover
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Choose The Best Noir: Poll Results

Postby cinemalover » June 9th, 2008, 9:15 am

In this thread you must choose a WINNER between Touch of Evil or Out of the Past for the Bestavorite Noir for 2008!

The voting runs through Tuesday, June 10th, at 11:59pm (Pacific).

Let's try this again as we encountered a dead heat in our first attempt. All previous votes have been taken out back and pummeled with a blackjack, leaving everyone free to re-vote. Bring your A-game and your best arguments, it's time to get serious!!!! We'll lock these two contenders in a room and only one will walk out alive.

VOTE NOW FOR THE BESTAVORITE NOIR of 2008!
Last edited by cinemalover on June 11th, 2008, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chris

The only bad movie is no movie at all.

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ChiO
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Postby ChiO » June 9th, 2008, 3:28 pm

My Fellow Voters from across This Great Globe,

Throughout this long and arduous campaign, you have read and watched many arguments in support of the two Candidates. Although our noble Friend, the opponent, may have unfortunately on occasion lapsed into a fanaticism and fractionalism designed to divide us, we have remained above the fray, calmly and logically setting forth the case for Bestavorite Noir of 2008.

It is time that we -- each of us -- move beyond the rhetoric from OUT OF THE PAST and seek the clear vision of the Future. It is time for a FORCE OF EVIL (Mr. Arkadin: I am not pandering for your vote, but acknowledging your wisdom and seeking your counsel for our brighter Future together), but in its unfortunate absence...

IT IS TIME TO VOTE FOR A TOUCH OF EVIL!!!

Thank you for reading. And may the Welles be with you.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

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cinemalover
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Postby cinemalover » June 9th, 2008, 4:54 pm

Thanks for those bold words, ChiO.

C'mon all you Noir fans, I know you've had to stage these arguments already, but this is it! What could be more fitting to a Noir Finale than SUDDEN-DEATH overtime. You only have until tomorrow to voice your choice. At the moment Touch of Evil has a lead, so all you Out of the Past fans need to get on the vote train.
Chris



The only bad movie is no movie at all.

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Dewey1960
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Postby Dewey1960 » June 9th, 2008, 5:08 pm

My fellow voters and noir enthusiasts…please do not allow the glib and purposefully deceptive tomfoolery of the noble but unenlightened opposition lull you into casting your hard-earned vote for the less worthy of two admirable motion pictures.

No, friends, it is time to shout down those who would denounce and desecrate the beauty and sublime symmetry of the PAST by extolling the facile and fatuous foibles of the EVIL.

We find today that the grand and holy tradition of noir rests on the able shoulders of the beloved Jacques Tourneur, the brilliant craftsman who gave us not only the masterpiece that stands before you humbly seeking your vote, but also three of Val Lewton’s most treasured gems: THE CAT PEOPLE, I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE and THE LEOPARD MAN---the last being one of the most faithful and absorbing cinematic adaptations of Cornell Woolrich’s literary works.

His later day noirs---NIGHTFALL and THE FEARMAKERS are among the best from the 1950s, while his horror shocker CURSE OF THE DEMON continues to dazzle and amaze audiences fifty years after its initial release. Lest we mention Mr. Tourneur’s beautifully realized western, STARS IN MY CROWN, a film the opposition has rhapsodized about whenever the occasion has allowed.

Yes, it has been a hard fought campaign. But I implore you to vote this time around with the knowledge that if OUT OF THE PAST becomes our “bestavorite” noir of 2008, the world will indeed be a little bit darker.

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MichiganJ
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Postby MichiganJ » June 9th, 2008, 5:46 pm

Dewey,
While I can’t fault you on your eloquent treatise on the merits of Mr. Tourneur and his remarkable accomplishments (all of the films you listed, particularly the Lewton’s and Curse of the Demon, are superb.) But, Mr. Welles has a few achievements of his own. The mutilated (but still brilliant) Ambersons; The Trial; Mr. Arkadin; even The Lady from Shanghai. Not to mention that film about that really (really) rich newspaper guy...

And again, with my radio background, I would be remiss in not mentioning War of the Worlds...

Touch of Evil, yes, in the original cut (although I’m not as opposed to the “reconstruction” as you are, I agree that they both should be made available and am thankful I still have my laserdisc copy), is still the “slightly” superior noir.
Vote “Evil” and vote often...

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ChiO
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Postby ChiO » June 9th, 2008, 5:52 pm

The Noir is cast.

Yes, many of us with a TOUCH OF EVIL have extolled the virtues of Jacques Tourneur, a director of American cinema that we find second only to Orson Welles. And we readily admit that STARS IN MY CROWN is a near-perfect Western, and that CAT PEOPLE and THE LEOPARD MAN (yes, based on a Cornell Woolrich story) too are marvelous examples of the cinematic art.

But, dear friends, Voters, and lovers of all things noir, this campaign is not about the three best films by Mr. Tourneur. It is about OUT OF THE PAST. When comparing Mr. Tourneur's fourth best movie to the work of a motion picture genius -- Orson Welles -- and a film that ranks favorably with the greatest work in film history, CITIZEN KANE, it is clear dear friends, Voters, and lovers of all things noir, that TOUCH OF EVIL is the film of Destiny (not unlike the 2008 Cubs).

We humbly seek your support for TOUCH OF EVIL. Let the healing -- in the dark -- begin here.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

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movieman1957
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Postby movieman1957 » June 9th, 2008, 9:10 pm

Such magnanimous good will from opposing sides is to be commended. In the heat of this most important election (for this month) the courtesy and respect afforded each side is most welcome because it is so lacking in the world outside this forum.

I thank you.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."

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Dewey1960
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Postby Dewey1960 » June 10th, 2008, 12:06 am

Tourneur is second to no other American director---especially Welles, whose legitimately great films could be counted on the fingers of Mordecai Brown's right hand. Tourneur left us a legacy of greatness rivaled only by the likes of Nick Ray, Sam Fuller and Fritz Lang. Welles certainly had his moments, undeniably, but to even suggest his stature is more substantial than Tourneur's is a futile foray into abstract delirium.

Let us not allow the bombast of EVIL to overshadow (or in this case, undershadow) the subtle poetry and graceful movements of OUT OF THE PAST, a film for the ages and the only right and logical choice for this prestigious honor.

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ChiO
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Postby ChiO » June 10th, 2008, 7:12 am

Might I remind you, Dedicated Voters, that, as some sink into a pernicious perfidy in their misguided musings while on desperate digressions, the issue before us is Quality, not quantity.

Let not our Big Tent of Respect for Tourneur, Fuller (had to drag him in, didn't you), Lang and Ray be interpreted as a denial of the supremacy of Welles, the Great American Independent. We welcome all to be compared to the Golden Standard.

Dark, depressing, ambiguous and visually stunning...TOUCH OF EVIL...neither over- or undershadowed.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

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Dewey1960
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Postby Dewey1960 » June 10th, 2008, 8:33 am

As this great race for the holy hierarchy heightens (and tightens) it is more than clear that the opposition has been reduced to his own desperate depths of malignant misperceptions, for it is not a question of quality or quantity, but one of the quality of one's quantity. And in the case of Mr. Welles we are not referring to his personal circumference, rather his comparatively puny resume of bloated failures and unfinished misfires.

But let us return to the issue at hand. OUT OF THE PAST is the one noir film in this championship final runoff that encompasses the vast and varied requirements of greatness: a brilliantly realized screenplay that fully captures the nuances and motivations of its characters while establishing a mesmerizing mise en scene (thanks to the unmistakable contributions of its cinematographer, Nicholas Musuraca and its director, Jacques Tourneur---as opposed to the glaringly self-conscious and pretentiously self-directed efforts of his competitor) and the iconographic performances of its lead players: Robert Mitchum who singlehandedly defines the essence of the noir hero in his career defining portrayal of Jeff Markham, whose ultimate selfless sacrifice underscores the layers of tragedy infused into his character; Jane Greer as Kathy who threatens to completely undermine our faith in the human race (or at least half of it) while forcing us to simultaneously love and despise her and Kirk Douglas as Whit Sterling, a man of consummate evil who controls the destiny of those around him like a psychotic puppeteer. These are the people of noir: real flesh and blood characters, some even with the capacity for good and evil.

While those of us who are campaigning so diligently for OUT OF THE PAST are quick to admit our fondness for TOUCH OF EVIL, it is important to remember that this is not mission of frivolity. No, this is an endeavor to establish the rightful ruler of the roost, the dean of Destiny's dark domain. Only one of these two films can lay claim to that throne and deep down in our rancid, noir infested hearts we know that film to be OUT OF THE PAST.

And, for the record, Fuller was not dragged here: he came voluntarily.

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cinemalover
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Postby cinemalover » June 10th, 2008, 9:39 am

Candidates (and campaign managers), I imagine that your war chests are dwindling down as we approach the magical stroke of midnight, signifying the end of the poll. Like any good political forum fillibusters are definitely allowed, and cost only time and imagination. Good luck to both parties, get out there and drum up the support that your candidate needs to get over this final hump. With mere hours to go we have a one vote race.
Chris



The only bad movie is no movie at all.

Hollis
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Postby Hollis » June 10th, 2008, 9:52 am

Ahem. Not to beat my own drum, but if you look at the end of the "Choose the best Western" thread, you'll see that it was moi that suggested this little love fest. Therefore, my vote should count as two and I'm voting for "Touch of Evil." If you don't vote my way, I'm taking my ball and going home! So there. Nyah, Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!

As always,

Hollis

PHILLIES ALL THE WAY !!!

p.s. Listen to ChiO, he' knows what he's talikng about!

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Dewey1960
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Postby Dewey1960 » June 10th, 2008, 10:01 am

Hollis said: "If you don't vote my way, I'm taking my ball and going home! So there. Nyah, Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!"

Hollis -- How positively...Wellesian!

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ChiO
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Postby ChiO » June 10th, 2008, 10:58 am

Dewey said: Hollis -- How positively...Wellesian!

Miring us in a morass of namecalling is inappropriate for this learned Forum. We would never stoop to alleging that a payola scandal was the downfall of an avatar. No...we will not sink to that level and we urge all TOUCH OF EVIL supporters not to repeat such scurrilous allegations involving payola.

We wondered when Nicholas Musuraca would be invoked. Yes, he may be almost as fine a cinematographer as John Alton, but Russell Metty is as well(es) (please see BRINGING UP BABY, MAGNIFICENT OBSSESSION, ALL THAT HEAVEN ALLOWS, WRITTEN ON THE WIND, SPARTACUS and the movie that arguably made Robert Mitchum, THE STORY OF G.I. JOE). The Orson Welles-Russell Metty collaboration brings together two giants (please, no further petty attacks on girth) for an incredible visual feast (and don't say that it's surprising that Welles didn't eat it). These are, after all, motion pictures.

Hank Quinlan is the noir character. Doomed and destroyed...with more than a TOUCH OF EVIL in him. But yet he was right in the end...as well(es) as dead. The duality of the human character was never more forcefully written, portrayed and filmed...and we have the Titan of film to thank for each of those acts...Ladies and Gentlemen, the King of Kenosha, Mr. Orson Welles.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles

Hollis
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Postby Hollis » June 10th, 2008, 1:35 pm

Orson Welles was from Kenosha? Well, Osh Kosh, B'gosh! You learn something every day!

As always,

Hollis


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