At long last I finally got around to "Lincoln." While there was plenty to be impressed about I came away not quite thrilled with it all.
I thought Lewis was great. Overall the cast was very good. I couldn't stand James Spader's character though. I'm sure that is by design but he was more creepy than anything and seemed an odd fit in Lincoln's group. I did like the touches of the interactions Lincoln had with his young son. I thought most of the scenes with Mrs. Lincoln were good. Their argument over their grief especially so. But is was slow. I agree with kingrat's much earlier comments that the ending could have happened earlier. No need for the death scene. We all knew it.
Is it odd that for a film that long there were too many things going on? And that they were taking too long to address them?
One issue I had is that everyone speaks the same. 19th century Shakespeare. I know they are all educated but it is all too much the same. And they all talk too much. Maybe I'm out of place on it but Mrs. Lincoln dressing down Sen. Stevens at a party and in front of other guests with such pointed even sarcastic remarks seems out of place for her. All seemed of one voice.
The atmosphere felt right and it all looked right but it felt like it dragged as much as Lincoln did when he walked. I wish I liked it more.
WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
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movieman1957
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
I'm, so with you on this, Chris!
For a movie with so much hype and the word "brilliant" attached to it so much, I found it a disappointment. I thought many moments were extremely good, but it was neither fish nor fowl - your point about too many elements is a good one. It doesn't stick with Lincoln as a personal journey for him (which I'd love to see), but it doesn't really stick with the political side either, getting into his family situations without real relevance to the story they wanted to tell. Spielberg wanted to have it all ways without committing to paring down the original script. I guess I wasn't too fond of the way it was plotted... it seemed to me to be a preliminary draft of a movie, rather than the finished product. I wish I liked it, too.. I'm a fan of Kushner's other works and of Lincoln in general. I think Spielberg needs a partner who will argue and edit him, rough him up...a John Lennon to his Paul McCartney, a Stewart Copeland to his Sting.
I wish I'd said that about how everyone talks the same - I felt that way too but could not get it into words like you did so perfectly. I think the ideas floating around in this movie were all very interesting, but sometimes it seems that writers get kind of full of themselves, and like to hear the sound of what they are saying. I had the same problem with The West Wing in the last year or so... it seemed less interesting because the actors all started sounding alike. Without character delineation, or perhaps too much one side against the other, It becomes a treatise rather than an entertainment and then it just doesn't work.
I probably would have liked this movie more if it hadn't been so touted by the critics as great.
For a movie with so much hype and the word "brilliant" attached to it so much, I found it a disappointment. I thought many moments were extremely good, but it was neither fish nor fowl - your point about too many elements is a good one. It doesn't stick with Lincoln as a personal journey for him (which I'd love to see), but it doesn't really stick with the political side either, getting into his family situations without real relevance to the story they wanted to tell. Spielberg wanted to have it all ways without committing to paring down the original script. I guess I wasn't too fond of the way it was plotted... it seemed to me to be a preliminary draft of a movie, rather than the finished product. I wish I liked it, too.. I'm a fan of Kushner's other works and of Lincoln in general. I think Spielberg needs a partner who will argue and edit him, rough him up...a John Lennon to his Paul McCartney, a Stewart Copeland to his Sting.
I wish I'd said that about how everyone talks the same - I felt that way too but could not get it into words like you did so perfectly. I think the ideas floating around in this movie were all very interesting, but sometimes it seems that writers get kind of full of themselves, and like to hear the sound of what they are saying. I had the same problem with The West Wing in the last year or so... it seemed less interesting because the actors all started sounding alike. Without character delineation, or perhaps too much one side against the other, It becomes a treatise rather than an entertainment and then it just doesn't work.
I probably would have liked this movie more if it hadn't been so touted by the critics as great.
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feaito
Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
I appreciate your feedback on "Lincoln" (2012), which was never a film I was interested to see and less so now.
Over the WE I saw two films on youtube:
"Mad about Men" (1954), a British comedy directed by Ralph Thomas, that I understand is a sort of sequel to "Miranda" (1948) -which I haven't seen. In it Glynis Johns plays the dual role of Miranda the mermaid and her relative, schoolteacher Caroline, who are identical. Whereas Caroline is restrained, serious and no-nonsense, Miranda is playful, sexy and flirtatious. Miranda takes the place of Caroline for a week and mayhem ensues at the little Cornish town in which Caroline's ancestors' home is located. Maggie Rutherford plays Miranda's nurse and it's one of the few films in which she doesn't steal the film from everyone else, due to Ms. Johns' charming performance as Miranda. All men go ga-ga over Miranda. I won't give more details, because you should see this one.
"Nightmare Castle" (1965), a gothic-horror flm starring the larger-than-life Barbara Steele, the beautiful queen of horror movies. This particular movie had haunted me since I was a kid and thanks to Joel, last week I was able to identify it. In Chile it was aired as "Lovers Beyond the Grave" or "Ultratomb lovers", like its Italian title (Gli Amanti D'Oltretomba). Steele plays two roles, step-sisters, one bold and quite evil and the other innocent and mentally unstable. It's set in the XIXth Century. I won't say anything else, because I don't want to spoil the fun of those interested in this movie. The English dubbing is somewhat annoying, but it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the film, at all.
Over the WE I saw two films on youtube:
"Mad about Men" (1954), a British comedy directed by Ralph Thomas, that I understand is a sort of sequel to "Miranda" (1948) -which I haven't seen. In it Glynis Johns plays the dual role of Miranda the mermaid and her relative, schoolteacher Caroline, who are identical. Whereas Caroline is restrained, serious and no-nonsense, Miranda is playful, sexy and flirtatious. Miranda takes the place of Caroline for a week and mayhem ensues at the little Cornish town in which Caroline's ancestors' home is located. Maggie Rutherford plays Miranda's nurse and it's one of the few films in which she doesn't steal the film from everyone else, due to Ms. Johns' charming performance as Miranda. All men go ga-ga over Miranda. I won't give more details, because you should see this one.
"Nightmare Castle" (1965), a gothic-horror flm starring the larger-than-life Barbara Steele, the beautiful queen of horror movies. This particular movie had haunted me since I was a kid and thanks to Joel, last week I was able to identify it. In Chile it was aired as "Lovers Beyond the Grave" or "Ultratomb lovers", like its Italian title (Gli Amanti D'Oltretomba). Steele plays two roles, step-sisters, one bold and quite evil and the other innocent and mentally unstable. It's set in the XIXth Century. I won't say anything else, because I don't want to spoil the fun of those interested in this movie. The English dubbing is somewhat annoying, but it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the film, at all.
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
I never knew the name of Mad About Men, so thanks Fernando for mentioning it! I found it a fun comedy, and I just love Glynis Johns as Miranda. Light fare but sometimes that's just what's needed. I think I'd watch Glynis Johns in anything.
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feaito
Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
She's been a discovery for me WEN, due to her skill at comedy.JackFavell wrote:I never knew the name of Mad About Men, so thanks Fernando for mentioning it! I found it a fun comedy, and I just love Glynis Johns as Miranda. Light fare but sometimes that's just what's needed. I think I'd watch Glynis Johns in anything.
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
She's just wonderful. Mad About Men really surprised me because I had already seen Miranda. I thought that was what was on, but then it had a different leading man and story and everything.
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
I just watched two really great movies! Both are from 1915. I've posted my review at the What Silents and Pre-Codes Have You Seen Lately? thread, too, but I thought these films were worth posting about here as well.
The first is called REGENERATION, and it was directed by Raoul Walsh. Walsh makes an exciting and poetic film, using all the elements at play in his greatest movies. Those signatures really stand out, even all the way back at the beginning of his career.
The scope of the movie is large, the inner city streets, the bars, the dives and the tenement squalor.
It's the story of a little boy who loses his mother at age 10. (The scene that starts the film is quite moving. This is not to be a comic adventure film, but a very serious drama). He watches as his mother is taken off in the hearse, and he's left alone.
The boy is taken in by a neighbor woman, a harridan, whose husband is a drunkard who beats her and the boy every chance he gets. The boy starts to lose whatever humanity he had, due to the influence of this battling couple and the tenement world they live in. He forgets every soft thing in his life in a very grim effort to stay alive. In this realistic backdrop, Walsh tells us the tale.
He rises to a position of 'prominence' in the tenement community over the years, since he has all the things that the denizens of the street find attractive - a devil may care attitude, a sense of daring, a lot of strength and good looks.
He's never lost his inner gentle nature, but it's hidden under a mask of bravado and cynicism. The actor, Rockcliffe Fellowes, looks like a cross between Marlon Brando, Jimmy Cagney and Jason Segal. He's quite good... in fact he totally reminds me of Brando in THE WILD ONE. The camera loves him. As Owen, he's able to play both sensitive and tough, which is a magic combination for Walsh.
He falls for Marie whom he calls Mamie Rose (Anna Q.Nilsson), a wealthy girl who is being groomed by her parents for marriage to the city's new District Attorney. The DA has just been appointed and tells all the newspapers that he is cracking down on crime. One night, the girl tells the DA that she wants to see what the street toughs are like for herself. The DA tells her and her friends that he knows a dive where they can see all the lowlifes they want to. Of course, after having his picture in the papers all over town, the DA is immediately recognized and the crowd starts to heckle him showing him how tough they really are. The girl cries out for someone to help the foolish DA, and our Owen breaks up the crowd and leads them to safety. Owen is smitten, and Mamie is struck hard with the need to help the poor and destitute.
She immediately starts work in the neighborhood, doing good deeds and handing out medicine and money to the needy. The rest is just about what you would think a Walsh film would be, with Owen trying to make good out of unrequited love for Marie, who doesn't really realize his feelings. He finds inspiration to become better educated and make something of himself through her ministrations. She turns to him as a pillar of strength when things go wrong. But his past is not going to let him be. It will rise up and strike him where he lives, at his heart.
His loyal pal, a street kid who has a deformity who Owen once saved from being made fun of, is a splendid actor who remains unknown. His name was not in the credits that I could find. All the street toughs really look like street toughs, which is refreshing and a bit scary. Walsh builds up the action in a very similar way to The Roaring Twenties, with a really evil gang leader who takes over when Owen tries to goes straight. He makes Bogie look like a sissy.
I don't think you can get the feel of the movie from the pictures I've posted. It's very much broader than the intimate scenes I've shown here. The scale feels "city"... big, grimy and filled with people and their refuse. There's a rhythm to it, as in the best Walsh films. There was a surprise ending, for me anyway. and I found myself shedding a tear even though I hadn't meant to and swore to myself I wouldn't. I can see how it made Walsh famous. It made me love him all the more for his sensitivity and realism.
***************************************************************************************
The other film, also from 1915, was called YOUNG ROMANCE, and I knew nothing about it. It was directed by William C. de Mille, Cecil's older brother. I will definitely check out other films by him. It was a charming, quick moving comedy about a shopgirl who dreams of living like a rich person, so she saves her money to go to a beachfront resort in Maine. She has planned for a year to live in style for a week, impersonating a wealthy woman, a customer at her shop. She buys her clothes for the trip and takes off to find love and adventure whcih she does, more than she expects.
Sound familiar??? I was surprised to see this story (one of my favorites, I love pretty much every movie with this plotline) in 1915. The movie starred Edith Taliaferro, a charming young actress who was really quite brilliant in putting over her character. She's a bit reminiscent of Janet Gaynor in acting style, not in looks. Her actions and reactions are so clear and simple, so natural, you can actually read her lips when she speaks. So if you like MOON OVER MIAMI or HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE, this is a film you would enjoy. I loved it. Charming.
Regeneration:
[youtube][/youtube]
Young Romance is available at Netflix on a dvd with Regeneration.
The first is called REGENERATION, and it was directed by Raoul Walsh. Walsh makes an exciting and poetic film, using all the elements at play in his greatest movies. Those signatures really stand out, even all the way back at the beginning of his career.
The scope of the movie is large, the inner city streets, the bars, the dives and the tenement squalor.
It's the story of a little boy who loses his mother at age 10. (The scene that starts the film is quite moving. This is not to be a comic adventure film, but a very serious drama). He watches as his mother is taken off in the hearse, and he's left alone.
The boy is taken in by a neighbor woman, a harridan, whose husband is a drunkard who beats her and the boy every chance he gets. The boy starts to lose whatever humanity he had, due to the influence of this battling couple and the tenement world they live in. He forgets every soft thing in his life in a very grim effort to stay alive. In this realistic backdrop, Walsh tells us the tale.
He rises to a position of 'prominence' in the tenement community over the years, since he has all the things that the denizens of the street find attractive - a devil may care attitude, a sense of daring, a lot of strength and good looks.
He's never lost his inner gentle nature, but it's hidden under a mask of bravado and cynicism. The actor, Rockcliffe Fellowes, looks like a cross between Marlon Brando, Jimmy Cagney and Jason Segal. He's quite good... in fact he totally reminds me of Brando in THE WILD ONE. The camera loves him. As Owen, he's able to play both sensitive and tough, which is a magic combination for Walsh.
He falls for Marie whom he calls Mamie Rose (Anna Q.Nilsson), a wealthy girl who is being groomed by her parents for marriage to the city's new District Attorney. The DA has just been appointed and tells all the newspapers that he is cracking down on crime. One night, the girl tells the DA that she wants to see what the street toughs are like for herself. The DA tells her and her friends that he knows a dive where they can see all the lowlifes they want to. Of course, after having his picture in the papers all over town, the DA is immediately recognized and the crowd starts to heckle him showing him how tough they really are. The girl cries out for someone to help the foolish DA, and our Owen breaks up the crowd and leads them to safety. Owen is smitten, and Mamie is struck hard with the need to help the poor and destitute.
She immediately starts work in the neighborhood, doing good deeds and handing out medicine and money to the needy. The rest is just about what you would think a Walsh film would be, with Owen trying to make good out of unrequited love for Marie, who doesn't really realize his feelings. He finds inspiration to become better educated and make something of himself through her ministrations. She turns to him as a pillar of strength when things go wrong. But his past is not going to let him be. It will rise up and strike him where he lives, at his heart.
His loyal pal, a street kid who has a deformity who Owen once saved from being made fun of, is a splendid actor who remains unknown. His name was not in the credits that I could find. All the street toughs really look like street toughs, which is refreshing and a bit scary. Walsh builds up the action in a very similar way to The Roaring Twenties, with a really evil gang leader who takes over when Owen tries to goes straight. He makes Bogie look like a sissy.
I don't think you can get the feel of the movie from the pictures I've posted. It's very much broader than the intimate scenes I've shown here. The scale feels "city"... big, grimy and filled with people and their refuse. There's a rhythm to it, as in the best Walsh films. There was a surprise ending, for me anyway. and I found myself shedding a tear even though I hadn't meant to and swore to myself I wouldn't. I can see how it made Walsh famous. It made me love him all the more for his sensitivity and realism.
***************************************************************************************
The other film, also from 1915, was called YOUNG ROMANCE, and I knew nothing about it. It was directed by William C. de Mille, Cecil's older brother. I will definitely check out other films by him. It was a charming, quick moving comedy about a shopgirl who dreams of living like a rich person, so she saves her money to go to a beachfront resort in Maine. She has planned for a year to live in style for a week, impersonating a wealthy woman, a customer at her shop. She buys her clothes for the trip and takes off to find love and adventure whcih she does, more than she expects.
Sound familiar??? I was surprised to see this story (one of my favorites, I love pretty much every movie with this plotline) in 1915. The movie starred Edith Taliaferro, a charming young actress who was really quite brilliant in putting over her character. She's a bit reminiscent of Janet Gaynor in acting style, not in looks. Her actions and reactions are so clear and simple, so natural, you can actually read her lips when she speaks. So if you like MOON OVER MIAMI or HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE, this is a film you would enjoy. I loved it. Charming.
Regeneration:
[youtube][/youtube]
Young Romance is available at Netflix on a dvd with Regeneration.
Last edited by JackFavell on April 23rd, 2013, 4:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
That Lincoln movie...Great reviews. Multiple award nominations. Yet I don't know one classic movie fan who liked it. Not sure what that means. But I'll take a recommendation from this forum before any other source. Still haven't seen it, myself.
I think I'd watch Glynis Johns in anything.
"Isn't it rich? Are we a pair?"
I think I'd watch Glynis Johns in anything.
"Isn't it rich? Are we a pair?"
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
Ha! Maybe we are too accustomed to excellent biopics!
I think it's well worth watching, and some of it is very good, red. Don't stay away from it, just don't necessarily believe all the hype it got.
I think it's well worth watching, and some of it is very good, red. Don't stay away from it, just don't necessarily believe all the hype it got.
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sandykaypax
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
I loved Lincoln. I saw it in the theatre, was not bored for one second, and loved it. I've been afraid to admit it here! It made me feel like I was actually watching Lincoln the man, not an actor playing Lincoln in a bio-pic.
I see the validity to many of the criticisms made here, but that was not my experience.
Sandy K
I see the validity to many of the criticisms made here, but that was not my experience.
Sandy K
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movieman1957
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
Sandy, I hope we (or especially me)never make anyone hesitate to talk about something with a differing opinion. That's the way I learn things from people. So very glad you posted it anyway.
Lewis was great. No doubt.
Lewis was great. No doubt.
Chris
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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JackFavell
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
Sandy, I'm so sorry if I made you feel like your opinion was not right! This is why I hesitated at first to write about it. I agree about feeling like you were seeing Lincoln the man.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
What a great post about the Roaul Walsh movies, I completely agree Wendy, they were real eye openers for me. The location work took me right into that world and the actors, it reminded me of Neo Realism albeit years before, they didn't feel very staged as movies but instead like pieces of real life.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Robert Regan
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?
And how great to see Anna Q> Nilsson in Regeneration. Remember her in Sunset Boulevard, one of Norma's "waxworks"?