Noir Alley

[laffite]

What does that italicized exclamation point mean next Noir Alley in my previous post above? Does it mean they don't like me, wah. It must have something to do with the RE: . Did I do that somehow? Wow, this site can get scary sometimes. They ought to make a Noir out of it.

[MissWonderly]

Hangover Square was a treat for me, since it was - once again, thanks Eddie - a film I'd never seen, ( noir or not), and I love it when Noir Alley shows a pic I've never seen before. Plus, this one was very atmospheric and never boring, always a good thing in movies ( and that's an understatement.)
Poor George Harvey ! Laird Cregar is perfect for this role; He has a naturally melancholy-looking face, very big, sad eyes. Even when he's playing a creepy sort ( as he so often did), you kind of root for him, or at least, feel sorry for him. And he's particularly pathetic in Hangover Square. Or maybe I shouldn't say "pathetic", since that word has a certain connotation for contempt, or at least, disdain. Maybe "tragic" is a better word for George/Laird, since he has no evil intentions, and seemingly cannot help the crimes he commits ( the "fatal flaw" thing being, I suppose, his falling apart when he hears a "discordant sound".)
I have to say, Linda Darnell strikes a pitch-perfect note (musical allusion intended) as the shallow manipulative b!tch who uses poor old George to write her "popular" cabaret songs. You don't feel too sorry for her when she gets garrotted (?) - guess she's an Edwardian version of a femme fatale.

I felt upset for the poor kitty, although at least George didn't strangle her.

I did kind of wonder if George's score for his concerto got burned in the conflagration at the end. I hope someone rescued it, since as someone else here (james?) pointed out, ultimately it was his music George cared about more than anything else.

[laffite]

I did kind of wonder if George's score for his concerto got burned in the conflagration at the end. I hope someone rescued it, since as someone else here (james?) pointed out, ultimately it was his music George cared about more than anything else.

...yet he went down with the score. So no matter in the temporal sense, but spiritually other sentiments may abound. The implication perhaps that the concerto will rise to unequaled heights to tower above all others for all eternity. Well, they can herald that when they do a remake of the film, which they haven't and never will. Did Bernard Herman compose the concerto? (Ha, I just corrected my spelling, I wrote "compost" the concerto?) Hey, Bernie, stick to strictly soundtrack work. We will all (me, anyway) love you for it.

[Andree]

Yes, George has many talents. Besides being a brilliant composer, he won the torte eating
contest at Bayreuth last year.




Meet the Edwardian psycho, same as the Victorian psycho. Style, very impressive. Some dark, eerie cinematography and
atmospheric setting in 1903 London, the Guy Fawkes bonfire being a standout. And give Bone credit for the clever idea
of putting Netta's corpse on top of the bonfire just in time. But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises. Hey, whatever.
One does feel sympathy for the old boy, at least a limited sympathy because he is still bumping off folks. And with the
Production Code we know that Bone is going to come to some kind of bad end, and playing the piano while all around
you everything is on fire is not a bad way to end things. A cut above the usual wrong in the head flick, but still too much
of the old been there, done that plot. I looked at Leslie Halliwell's Film Guide entry on Hangover Square and he quotes
this excerpt from Richard Mallett of Punch: 'A half-chewed collection of reminiscences of Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde and
The Lodger.' A little harsh, but I think it sums it up pretty accurately.

[laffite]

[...snip ... ]
But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises.
[ ... snip ... ]

And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?

[jamesjazzguitar]

[...snip ... ]
But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises.
[ ... snip ... ]

And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?

I believe you're on to something here. I assume when Bone performed his concerto the discordant sounds of his own music lead to his breakdown in the moment. It wasn't just because George Sanders was able to get free and showed up at the performance. Muller said that Sanders didn't like his last lines and thus didn't say them. The director should have cut Sanders out of the last scene. Then we would know that it was the music that made him do it.

[Andree]

And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?

I'm not into classical music, but his composition didn't sound more discordant than other music from that period and it's
a rehearsed sound, not the sudden kind that seems to drive Bone cuckoo. I don't see much of an irony or else a very slight
one. I've seen Hangover Square a few times before, so there's not much of a mystery how things will turn out.

[laffite]

And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?

I'm not into classical music, but his composition didn't sound more discordant than other music from that period and it's
a rehearsed sound, not the sudden kind that seems to drive Bone cuckoo. I don't see much of an irony or else a very slight
one. I've seen Hangover Square a few times before, so there's not much of a mystery how things will turn out.

Well, if I had seen it "a few times before," the ending wouldn't be a mystery to me either. And if you are not into classical music, how do you know about that period of music history. Just chiding you, you left yourself open with some careless verbiage. Leave it to me to be the classless opportunist that would profit from it.

Yes, that was really bad, laffite. You should go sit in the corner for six hours. And no Tom Terrific for a week.

I probably agree with you (not you, Snoopy ; but Andree) but is it not the purpose here to bring up anything, though it may be of the remotest significance, even if it has no significance at all? We must look at every nook and cranny for new discoveries To have monstrous inclinations triggered by discordant sounds in one who composes discordant music is not altogether fool. At least for a mention. It may be far fetched but nervous filmmakers might have worried just a little that they may have erred into having something that film goers mulled over that they, the filmmakers, did not intend.

And see James post above. He brings the doctor into play with this issue.

[Andree]

Well, if I had seen it "a few times before," the ending wouldn't be a mystery to me either. And if you are not into classical music, how do you know about that period of music history. Just chiding you, you left yourself open with some careless verbiage. Leave it to me to be the classless opportunist that would profit from it.

Yes, that was really bad, laffite. You should go sit in the corner for six hours. And no Tom Terrific for a week.

I probably agree with you (not you, Snoopy ; but Andree) but is it not the purpose here to bring up anything, though it may be of the remotest significance, even if it has no significance at all? We must look at every nook and cranny for new discoveries To have monstrous inclinations triggered by discordant sounds in one who composes discordant music is not altogether fool. At least for a mention. It may be far fetched but nervous filmmakers might have worried just a little that they may have erred into having something that film goers mulled over that they, the filmmakers, did not intend.

And see James post above. He brings the doctor into play with this issue.

Of course due to the Production Code the viewer knows that Mr. Bone will come to a bad end, they just don't know the
particulars of that end, a fairly spectacular one as it turns out. I'm not into classical music in the same way I'm not
into bluegrass music, i.e. I don't have a deep interest in either genre of music, but I've heard both over the years,
and I didn't find Mr. Bone's music to be more dissonant than other classical music I recall from that period. Bone is
disconcerted by sudden jarring sounds that are not related to his music per se. I suppose that could have some connection
to his livelihood as a composer. Then again, maybe not. Classical music is a higher end topic than if doll houses, dust
bunnies, or ladies' undergarments set him off. A little of the old Hollywood pseudo-sophistication.

[laffite]

My bartender friend liked Hangover Square a lot. She was surprised I missed it but I was hungover and overslept and she was kind not to wake me, so I can’t comment on any drinks left undrunk. Dang.

And it was about hangovers too (of a sort) And you missed It?! O woe to you in the mornin!

[jamesjazzguitar]

Well, if I had seen it "a few times before," the ending wouldn't be a mystery to me either. And if you are not into classical music, how do you know about that period of music history. Just chiding you, you left yourself open with some careless verbiage. Leave it to me to be the classless opportunist that would profit from it.

Yes, that was really bad, laffite. You should go sit in the corner for six hours. And no Tom Terrific for a week.

I probably agree with you (not you, Snoopy ; but Andree) but is it not the purpose here to bring up anything, though it may be of the remotest significance, even if it has no significance at all? We must look at every nook and cranny for new discoveries To have monstrous inclinations triggered by discordant sounds in one who composes discordant music is not altogether fool. At least for a mention. It may be far fetched but nervous filmmakers might have worried just a little that they may have erred into having something that film goers mulled over that they, the filmmakers, did not intend.

And see James post above. He brings the doctor into play with this issue.

Of course due to the Production Code the viewer knows that Mr. Bone will come to a bad end, they just don't know the
particulars of that end, a fairly spectacular one as it turns out. I'm not into classical music in the same way I'm not
into bluegrass music, i.e. I don't have a deep interest in either genre of music, but I've heard both over the years,
and I didn't find Mr. Bone's music to be more dissonant than other classical music I recall from that period. Bone is
disconcerted by sudden jarring sounds that are not related to his music per se. I suppose that could have some connection
to his livelihood as a composer. Then again, maybe not. Classical music is a higher end topic than if doll houses, dust
bunnies, or ladies' undergarments set him off. A little of the old Hollywood pseudo-sophistication.

It appears you're saying that due to the Production Code Bone had to die (i.e. come to a bad end). If that is what you're saying I don't agree. What both the police and doctor said before the final scene are very understanding comments. Remember it was Bone that went to the doctor in the first place. He had remorse. He wanted to be caught and stopped (similar to a man that becomes a werewolf). The Code didn't require the death of someone who commits crimes that clearly has a mental illness. The best example of this is Scarlett Street where the killer (Eddie G.), escapes all legal punishment. So the film could have ended with Bone completing his concerto and being taken away to a mental institution.

While Bone is playing and the doctor comes in he has one of his "moments"; E.g. his slight gets blurry, etc... What caused that if not the music?

[Dargo]

Help me out here folks, as I must have missed something in Hangover Square.

In the penultimate scene in which Sanders confronts Cregar in the latter's apartment and says to him that he knows he's the murderer and that he must go with him to the police, and they're then shown walking out of the apartment as this scene ends.

However, the very next scene, the film's finale, shows Cregar performing his concerto and being surprised and alarmed to see Sanders walking through the door of concert hall and along with police officers through different doors.

(...so what gives here?...I don't recall Sanders agreeing to allow Cregar to perform his music before escorting him to the police station in the previous scene?)

[jamesjazzguitar]

Help me out here folks, as I must have missed something in Hangover Square.

In the penultimate scene in which Sanders confronts Cregar in the latter's apartment and says to him that he knows he's the murderer and that he must go with him to the police, and they're then shown walking out of the apartment as this scene ends.

However, the very next scene, the film's finale, shows Cregar performing his concerto and being surprised and alarmed to see Sanders walking through the door of concert hall and along with police officers through different doors.

(...so what gives here?...I don't recall Sanders agreeing to allow Cregar to perform his music before escorting him to the police station in the previous scene?)

It appears you missed the scene where a cop and a bystander hear someone banging a door and it is Sanders who has been locked into a room\basement by Cregar. Now there is no scene that shows how Cregar was able to bully Sanders into that room (which had to take place right after Sanders says Cregar has to go to the police and can't go to the performance). I.e. all we see is Cregar going to the performance and Sanders being found. So yea, that was confusing the first time I saw it.

[Dargo]

Help me out here folks, as I must have missed something in Hangover Square.

In the penultimate scene in which Sanders confronts Cregar in the latter's apartment and says to him that he knows he's the murderer and that he must go with him to the police, and they're then shown walking out of the apartment as this scene ends.

However, the very next scene, the film's finale, shows Cregar performing his concerto and being surprised and alarmed to see Sanders walking through the door of concert hall and along with police officers through different doors.

(...so what gives here?...I don't recall Sanders agreeing to allow Cregar to perform his music before escorting him to the police station in the previous scene?)

It appears you missed the scene where a cop and a bystander hear someone banging a door and it is Sanders who has been locked into a room\basement by Cregar. Now there is no scene that shows how Cregar was able to bully Sanders into that room (which had to take place right after Sanders says Cregar has to go to the police and can't go to the performance). I.e. all we see is Cregar going to the performance and Sanders being found. So yea, that was confusing the first time I saw it.

Thanks James. Yep, I must have somehow missed seeing that scene.

(...appreciate the reply here)

[laffite]

I missed it too. I thought Bone just ignored the doctor and bullied his way to the piano. Where was the doctor while the playing was going and the fire was raging and he said, "Better this way," meaning just let him die in the fire. Wasn't he in a position to see what what was going on? How could he be locked up? Thanks.