I Just Watched...

[HoldenIsHere]

To follow up: Holden mentioned that Jennifer Warren had the same finishing school accent as Jane Fonda. Some critics have noted that although Jane Fonda's performance in They Shoot Horses, Don't They? is very good, her finishing school accent is wrong for the part. Later in her career, it's interesting to hear Fonda working to get a standard New York accent in California Suite. In that film and in Julia, where a very attractive Jane Fonda plays a not so attractive Lillian Hellman, you can see the actress at work trying to create a character very different from herself. Neither performance is completely successful, but you can see the wheels turning in a way you can't where Fonda is more exactly cast.

I do think Jane Fonda has one of the most pleasant sounding voices of any movie actor (male or female).

In a recent interview she mentioned that she had reached out to her 9 TO 5 co-star Dolly Parton when she was preparing for her role as an Appalachian woman in THE DOLLMAKER telling Dolly "You're the only hillbilly I know."

[CinemaInternational]

you guys ever think of maybe starting a separate thread for Murder She Wrote fans ??

YES, but honestly I didn't know if we could (it being a TV show and not a classic film)
still dunno the rules too good.

There is a subsection called General TV and media, so technically a seperate thread could be made.

[Bronxgirl48]

JAGGED EDGE -- annoying '80's courtroom thriller with Glenn Close as possibly the world's dumbest lawyer. The obnoxiously manipulative script tries to "liven" things up with foul-mouthed Robert Loggia but only falls flat.

THE AFFAIRS OF DOBIE GILLIS -- Poorly directed, sluggishly paced, rather lame b&w romantic musical comedy seems almost like the studio's afterthought. Debbie is by-the-book winsome and Bobby Van looks bored. The only reason to watch are Bob Fosse's (his movie debut) startling, ahead-of-his-time innovative dance moves which unfortunately comprise one short scene. 

[CinemaInternational]

JAGGED EDGE -- annoying '80's courtroom thriller with Glenn Close as possibly the world's dumbest lawyer. The obnoxiously manipulative script tries to "liven" things up with foul-mouthed Robert Loggia but only falls flat.

THE AFFAIRS OF DOBIE GILLIS -- Poorly directed, sluggishly paced, rather lame b&w romantic musical comedy seems almost like the studio's afterthought. Debbie is by-the-book winsome and Bobby Van looks bored. The only reason to watch are Bob Fosse's (his movie debut) startling, ahead-of-his-time innovative dance moves which unfortunately comprise one short scene. 

Jagged Edge was one of those films that was a critical and commercial hit at the time, that very few like nowadays. Admittedly, there were so many variations on its plot for nearly a decade afterwards that the "surprises" became threadbare. Still, the performances elevate things quite a bit, not just Close and Loggia, but also Jeff Bridges, Peter Coyote, and briefly Karen Arthur and Leigh Taylor-Young.

Dobie Gillis is minor, yes, but I had a better time with it. It's a unpretentious little B movie which served its purpose: it made me smile.

[Bronxgirl48]

CI, I have to admit I've always had a little crush on Peter Coyote...

[HoldenIsHere]

In my earlier post here about ICE CASTLES (1978) – which can be found on page 186 of this thread – I didn’t discuss viewing the movie through a queer lens. But . . .
When Lynn-Holly Johnson’s character arrives at the Broadmoor World Arena to begin her training, she’s given a tour of the place by a younger girl. This sequence begins with the tour in progress. The first words the audience hears from the skater who’s giving the tour are:
“You’re not queer, are you? I mean it’s all right if you are. No law against it. There was a girl here last year. Oh brother! I never knew what a lesbian was until one night we were up late talking. She kissed me! Right on the mouth. Brother! To each his own. But, you know, it kinda takes you by surprise.”
And this is the last we hear on this topic. It’s not clear why ICE CASTLES felt compelled to “go there.” But they did. Since I can remember there’s been speculation about the sexuality of male Olympic figure skaters. Today, there are several former Olympic competitors who are publicly out, with Eric Radford and (the beautiful) Adam Rippon being the first to publicly identify as gay when they competed at the Olympics (although the argument could be made that Johnny Weir was out when he competed even though he never publicly uttered “the word” until later). I’m not aware of any pre-conceptions about the sexuality of female figure skaters.

Beulah, Colleen Dewhurst’s character in the movie, yells the following while watching a hockey game:
“Come on, you pansies! Get in there! No! Don’t check with your goddam wrist! Let’s have a little blood flow on that ice!”
Beulah’s style of dress and her manner read “butch,” but I don’t get the sense that the filmmakers mean to imply that she is gay. Maybe asexual?

I could be wrong but I don’t think in 1978 ICE CASTLES was queerbaiting with the sequence featuring Robby Benson on the phone in his tighty-whities, but that part of the movie has definitely achieved gay-conic status. There’s not much I can add that the images don’t say for themselves.

It’s interesting to note that both “queer” and “pansy” were pejoratives at the time the movie was released. While “queer” has been reappropriated by the community that the word was originally used to vilify, I don’t see that happening with “pansy.” I do, however, think “fairy” has possibilities. I like the magical connotation of that word.

[kingrat]

Holden, I think it's fair to say that some older gay men still find the word "queer" extremely offensive if applied to them. The assumption that "queer" is an acceptable substitute for, say, "LGBT," is ageist, in my opinion.

I have asked other people what the "new improved" meaning of "queer" is, but everyone else seems as mystified as I am. A few years ago a new city council member mentioned twelve times in a brief article that she was a "queer woman." In context, this seemed to mean either "a lesbian who's too cool for school" or "a bisexual whose **** doesn't stink." That may not be the official meaning, however.

[Swithin]

As an older gay man, I use the word "queer" in the way that African Americans may use the "N" word. I'm on the alumni committee of my university and also work with young actors and find the word "queer" is used by younger men almost as much as they use the word "gay." I don't think straight people would be comfortable using it.

I don't think the word "pansy" is used anymore. The gay lyricist Lorenz Hart used it in one of his best songs, ca. 1930:

"Ten cents a dance, pansies and rough guys, tough guys who tear my gown..."

"Sometimes I think, I found my hero, but it's a queer romance..."

[TikiSoo]

I don't think the word "pansy" is used anymore.

Nor is my favorite "Lavender" which I use to describe classic actors of the closeted past like Edward Everett Horton and Clifton Webb. I'd also use Lavender to describe Patsy Kelly.

I find "pansy" insulting.

Most in my circles use the term "Flamer" for stereotyping flamboyant men, while I prefer "fey" which seems kinder & more accepting.

[Lorna]

Holden, I think it's fair to say that some older gay men still find the word "queer" extremely offensive if applied to them. The assumption that "queer" is an acceptable substitute for, say, "LGBT," is ageist, in my opinion.

for me, a semantic pedantic, I lament the loss of the word "QUEER" as a GREAT way to say "effing ODD." Even the juxtaposition of the vowels is UNUSUAL- i can think of fewer words to better describe when something JUST AIN'T RIGHT, and I often used it on YE OLDE MESSAGE BOARDS in its original sense and was quite miffed every time to remember it was censored.

as far as I am concerned, Men who prefer the company of men, women who prefer the company of women, people who do not subscribe to the gender binary- and all those gray areas in between, Mama, that is a tale as old as time, a song as old as rhyme- ain't nuthin unusual or in violation of nature about ANY of that.

FOOD OF THE GODS**, on the other hand, THAT is a QUEER FILM. It is a QUEER PREMISE. It is QUEERLY SHOT, it is ODD. it ain't right and it is very much against WHAT NATURE INTENDED.


**It was the first example that popped into my head. i probbaly could think of a better one given time but it's rainy this morning and the pollen count is high

[Lorna]

I don't think the word "pansy" is used anymore.

Nor is my favorite "Lavender" which I use to describe classic actors of the closeted past like Edward Everett Horton and Clifton Webb.

"WOMAN HATER" also tickles me. It shows up in A LOT of old MGM FILMS.

[Lorna]

JAGGED EDGE -- annoying '80's courtroom thriller with Glenn Close as possibly the world's dumbest lawyer. The obnoxiously manipulative script tries to "liven" things up with foul-mouthed Robert Loggia but only falls flat.

NO LIES DETECTED.

One fun thing of note (probably the only fun thing of note about JAGGED EDGE), GLENN CLOSE goes through (something like) FOUR WARDROBE CHANGES during what is supposed to be a single scene during the summation of the case. it was supposed to be set over four days, but they edited it into one.

[Swithin]

Holden, I think it's fair to say that some older gay men still find the word "queer" extremely offensive if applied to them. The assumption that "queer" is an acceptable substitute for, say, "LGBT," is ageist, in my opinion.

FOOD OF THE GODS**, on the other hand, THAT is a QUEER FILM. It is a QUEER PREMISE. It is QUEERLY SHOT, it is ODD. it ain't right and it is very much against WHAT NATURE INTENDED.


**It was the first example that popped into my head. i probbaly could think of a better one given time but it's rainy this morning and the pollen count is high

"I used to fantasize
the most horrible death.
You know, the most frightening.
None of them come close
to being eaten by rats.
The funny thing is,
now that it's happening,
it really doesn't seem
to matter, except for my baby."

[Lorna]

so i know some of you may be shocked and stunned to hear this, but I watched something that wasn't a certain hour long mystery drama that ran on CBS from 1984-1996.



I finally made it through FRITZ LANG'S M (1931)- a film I have tried to make it through many times and failed, in spite of the fact that I love PETER LORRE, I like FRITZ LANG'S films, and the subject matter of GERMANY IN THE EARLY 30s FASCINATES ME.

I'm gonna come right out and say it: the film has AN EXCELLENT START but it then runs into VERY REAL PACING PROBLEMS and a very dull 40ish minutes unfold....now, I realize that this may be the first talkie POLICE PROCEDURAL, and it's been done 10000000000000 times since, but I still say- THIS FILM HAS A DEADLY DULL CENTER and at 2 hours and some change, I think they should've cut some fat around the waist.

that said, something ELECTRIC happens at an hour or so in- a BRILLIANT scene where A BLIND MAN hears A KILLER'S WHISTLE on a busy STREET- and from there, the film TAKES OFF AND DOESN'T STOP.

The ending is riveting, and PETER LORRE'S astounding performance (MY GOD, it is SOMETHING- he even ROLLS HIS EYES BACK INTO HIS HEAD LIKE A SHARK when he reminisces in front of a crowd about how IT FEELS WHEN HE GIVES IN TO HIS URGE TO KILL) eclipses the fact that he's BARELY IN THE MOVIE UNTIL THE THIRD ACT.

A really great movie in spite of the pokey middle- wonderful use of both SOUND and SILENT sequences to DISARMING EFFECT (you WILL check to make sure you haven't sat on the the mute button)

this film makes a brilliant companion piece to FURY (1935) by the same director and it also brings to mind THE TRIAL, THE OX-BOW INCIDENT and even one my favorite episodes of BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES: TRIAL.

The actors are all amazing, I have no idea if they were just extras or not; for someone who had a real reputation as a sadistic SOB, FTIZ LANG gets INCREDIBLE WORK FROM EVERYONE-i will even single out "THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY" who is RIVETING in his brief part at the end of the movie and THE MOTHER OF ONE OF THE CHILD VICTIMS who gets the LAST LINE OF THE MOVIE, which would have been devastating had MY HULU NOT COME FLASHING AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN TO TELL ME THAT "GONE WITH THE WIND" WAS COMING ON NEXT.

God, I hate the 21st century.

[Lorna]

and this shot was terrific: