The Entertainer; Joan/Vivien
The Entertainer; Joan/Vivien
sorry i've decide to cancel this particular post
Last edited by stuart.uk on June 3rd, 2008, 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gee, Stuart, what is your cut-off date for beauty? 30? 35?she wasn't the great beauty Vivien was, even in her early-50s.
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
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jdb1
Stuart, you seem to have an inordinate fascination with the fact that many women do indeed make it past the age of 25. But it's very nice to see from you a sensitive and insightful statement like the one saying that Olivier got some stability from his relationship with Plowright. Even ancient folks deserve a bit of happiness, after all.stuart.uk wrote:it was a film i avoided for a while, because it appeared sleezy, but a couple of yrs back i saw The Entertainer for the first time. i wanted to see it to get an idea of what Laurence Olivier saw in the young Joan Plowright.
i realise the main reason for the break-up of the Oliver's marriage was Vivien Leigh's mental illness that made her at times difficult to live with, but nonetheless i wanted to make the comparison.
Joan was a younger woman, but though sexy, she wasn't the great beauty Vivien was, even in her early-50s.
clearly, though Larry loved Vivien a great deal, it seems Joan gave him in middle-age a stability, not to mention a family, that was lacking in his Marriage to Viv. if you notice, like Charles and Camilla, there wasn't a hint of bad publicity in Larry's marriage to Joan, unlike with Vivien and Charles relationship with Diana, in which both received lots of media attention, some of it bad.
one scene in The Entertainer made me laugh under the circumstances. the womaising Olivier asked his early 20-something daughter, played by Plowright how she'd feel about him marrying a younger woman. he was married to the aging and unhappy Brenda De Banzie, while having an affair with the very young Shirley Ann Field
the film also saw a young Albert Finney as Olivier's soldier son killed serving overseas and another son in a bigger role played by Alan Bates
However, saying that Vivien Leigh was a great beauty "even in her early-50s" might not be looked upon as so sensitive by many members of this board, a preponderance of whom are in their "early-50s" or older. In my experience, a beautiful woman is beautiful; it has nothing to do with how old she is. I don't think you'd have to be an "older" women to find such comments troubling.
Perhaps you might take a moment before you write them down to consider what the rest of us will read into such statements. I refer you to the SSO Code of Conduct; specifically, the "Choose Words Carefully" section. Your constant comments about women and their appearance as they age are opinion, not fact. Even the mitigating application of "in my opinion" before your comments would soften the blow. You seem to forget to do that, every time.
You have a lot of valuable and interesting things to say here; but please bear in mind who you are saying those things to. (And by the way, what ever happened to capital letters at the beginning of a sentence?)
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jdb1
Not offense as much as annoyance. This site isn't FaceBook, and we try to anticipate and appreciate each other's feelings, and not say just anything that pops into our heads. Besides, if you are going to express strong opinions, you're going to have to accept strong responses.
I suspect you haven't had much Internet interaction with people much older than yourself. It's a different world, as you are learning. Please don't leave us because of anything I've said. I'm not trying to insult you, Stuart, only to, shall we say, "raise your consciousness." You have a lot of good notions about the importance of cinema, and that's why were are here - to exchange such views. But you must remember that most of us here don't consider middle age to be old. It's what we are, and we're looking great and doing just fine, thank you.
There's nothing wrong with your saying that an actress looks great for her age, but we can do without your "believe it or not"-type qualifiers. I believe it because I live it, and I look pretty great for my age, if I do say so myself.
I suspect you haven't had much Internet interaction with people much older than yourself. It's a different world, as you are learning. Please don't leave us because of anything I've said. I'm not trying to insult you, Stuart, only to, shall we say, "raise your consciousness." You have a lot of good notions about the importance of cinema, and that's why were are here - to exchange such views. But you must remember that most of us here don't consider middle age to be old. It's what we are, and we're looking great and doing just fine, thank you.
There's nothing wrong with your saying that an actress looks great for her age, but we can do without your "believe it or not"-type qualifiers. I believe it because I live it, and I look pretty great for my age, if I do say so myself.
i think what i've tried to say has backfired. I think people look great no matter how old they are and that's what I was trying to say, but obviously it's my fault for allowing myself to be misunderstood in what I was trying to put across.
my fear is that i might put my foot in it again and rather than do that I rather walk away. that way noboby will get hurt. i'm myself in my 50s.
my fear is that i might put my foot in it again and rather than do that I rather walk away. that way noboby will get hurt. i'm myself in my 50s.
Aw, Stuart, lighten up! We all have strong opinions about different things, that's what makes us a family. You don't leave family just because 2 of your "sisters" give you a hard time back....
Now, tell me if you've seen Joan Plowright in "Enchanted April". She was absolutely perfection in her portrayal of a woman who slowly comes back to life.
Now, tell me if you've seen Joan Plowright in "Enchanted April". She was absolutely perfection in her portrayal of a woman who slowly comes back to life.
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
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jdb1
Nancy's quite right, Stuart. We have had some very strong disagreements here, and loved every minute of it. No one is faulting you for having opinions. Don't leave us -- we do want to read what you have to say.
By the way, Nancy, in my opinion, Joan Plowright always seems to have the rather blank and puzzled facial expression of a koala. But, then, I like koalas.
By the way, Nancy, in my opinion, Joan Plowright always seems to have the rather blank and puzzled facial expression of a koala. But, then, I like koalas.
In the role of the dowager, that puzzled expression served her well. She could not understand the character of Lottie, and in the end just gave up and loved her.
BTW, have any of you seen the original version with Ann Harding? For once, I think the newer version was much better than the original. The characters of Rose and Lottie were switched in the second version, Rose's husband was the writer/philanderer, and Lottie's husband was the uncaring solicitor.
I just checked the original book, and the 2nd movie was true to the book in the women's characters. Wonder why they changed it in the first movie?
BTW, have any of you seen the original version with Ann Harding? For once, I think the newer version was much better than the original. The characters of Rose and Lottie were switched in the second version, Rose's husband was the writer/philanderer, and Lottie's husband was the uncaring solicitor.
I just checked the original book, and the 2nd movie was true to the book in the women's characters. Wonder why they changed it in the first movie?
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
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Vecchiolarry
- Posts: 1392
- Joined: May 6th, 2007, 10:15 pm
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Older - Still Beautiful...
Hi,
My 2 cents worth:
I've seen "The Emtertainer" once and that was for Brenda De Banzie, whom I knew very briefly. She was older but still beautiful - she had wonderful skin, peaches & cream - an English rose....
I never regarded her as 'aging' although that may have been the role she played in the movie. She was quick witted and humourous. A "with it chick" so to speak.
I never much cared for Laurence Olivier and always thought Alec Guinness was the best British actor around, followed by Ralph Richardson.
Olivier was always "just there" but of no interest to me.
Vivien Leigh was beautiful to the end of her life from some phots I've seen of her taken by a New York lawyer I knew, who took loads of pictures of many famous people.
He had photographed her at a party not 5 month previous to her death and she looked wonderful...
Haven't seen too much of Joan Plowright's movies but have enjoyed her in them all...
Larry
My 2 cents worth:
I've seen "The Emtertainer" once and that was for Brenda De Banzie, whom I knew very briefly. She was older but still beautiful - she had wonderful skin, peaches & cream - an English rose....
I never regarded her as 'aging' although that may have been the role she played in the movie. She was quick witted and humourous. A "with it chick" so to speak.
I never much cared for Laurence Olivier and always thought Alec Guinness was the best British actor around, followed by Ralph Richardson.
Olivier was always "just there" but of no interest to me.
Vivien Leigh was beautiful to the end of her life from some phots I've seen of her taken by a New York lawyer I knew, who took loads of pictures of many famous people.
He had photographed her at a party not 5 month previous to her death and she looked wonderful...
Haven't seen too much of Joan Plowright's movies but have enjoyed her in them all...
Larry
Hi ya, Larry.
I just "discovered" Brenda De Banzie. Her face was familiar, but I wasn't sure of her name. In my opinion, she walked off with "Hobson's Choice." I don't really care for Mr. Laughton (gasp, the night riders will get me now), but John Mills is a favorite, and I have added Miss De Banzie's name to that list. I would love to see Hobson's Choice again, just to watch her "do her stuff". I hope she was as charming in life as she is in this movie!
Thanks for sharing.
Nancy
I just "discovered" Brenda De Banzie. Her face was familiar, but I wasn't sure of her name. In my opinion, she walked off with "Hobson's Choice." I don't really care for Mr. Laughton (gasp, the night riders will get me now), but John Mills is a favorite, and I have added Miss De Banzie's name to that list. I would love to see Hobson's Choice again, just to watch her "do her stuff". I hope she was as charming in life as she is in this movie!
Thanks for sharing.
Nancy
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
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charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Brenda De Banzie did steal Hobson's Choice didn't she. When I think of David Lean films that is one of the best.
The Entertainer was a move away from the more traditional roles for Larry. It boasts a new crop of talent too. Alan Bates, I could watch him in anything
Albert Finney and Shirley Ann Field.
As regarding Larry, Vivien and Joan I've read about it from both angles in the past. I don't think he could take much more of Vivien, she was beyond being married to and needed help. Joan was obviously very good for him, a sensible girl and provided him with a stable family and home. I'm sure he loved her dearly.
Very poignantly about Vivien's death, Larry was meant to have been present very shortly afterwards and allowed by Vivien's partner of the time to have some time with her, he was extremely upset. I think there's was a grand passion and it was her illness that destroyed their relationship, for that I feel very sorry for Vivien. It's years since I read Olivier's book and one on Vivien.
The Entertainer was a move away from the more traditional roles for Larry. It boasts a new crop of talent too. Alan Bates, I could watch him in anything
Albert Finney and Shirley Ann Field. As regarding Larry, Vivien and Joan I've read about it from both angles in the past. I don't think he could take much more of Vivien, she was beyond being married to and needed help. Joan was obviously very good for him, a sensible girl and provided him with a stable family and home. I'm sure he loved her dearly.
Very poignantly about Vivien's death, Larry was meant to have been present very shortly afterwards and allowed by Vivien's partner of the time to have some time with her, he was extremely upset. I think there's was a grand passion and it was her illness that destroyed their relationship, for that I feel very sorry for Vivien. It's years since I read Olivier's book and one on Vivien.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin