ENOUGH!!!

[Synnove]

Synnove, we've all let it out on this site somewhere, so why shouldn't you feel free to? Be our guest.

That is such a problem with the news media now. Only the bad things are reported. When Paul Newman died, people learned for the first time what a philanthropist he was, why wasn't that new out when he started doing it? instead of waiting until he died? We hear and read about entertainment people going into re-hab, but how many were in Louisiana immediately after Katrina hit? Quite a few were, but it was just a blip in the news, more important they showed those poor people begging for help from the roof of their damaged homes. If Jay Leno, and Harry Connick, Jr. and many others got there within 1 or 2 days, why couldn't the President, or the military? See what I mean? only the bad stuff gets coverage. If Newman hadn't died, but filed for divorce instead, you can bet we'd still be hearing about it.

Exactly! They only say good things about people when they are dead. Violence and death make good stories. When someone has died, they can afford to say good things about the person in question. I wonder if it is just because they already have their story? Or am I being cynical. At any rate, it's a problem our media also has. They would rather report about the negative things, which can give one a strange world view.

Tonights the Palin/Biden debate, let's see how many dumb things they say are quoted, but how little the good things are!

And how many things will be taken completely out of context. But at least you have some good satirical shows to balance things out. We have satire... but it's dull.

[ChiO]

Lynn asked:

Does anyone know how many states have early voting?

I posted the info a few posts back. I got it from: http://earlyvoting.net/states/abslaws.php

Chris said:

MD has a plan that getting a driver's license can also register you to vote.

and

It's a law here in MD as well so I wonder too if it is a federal law.

It sure is a federal law, enacted in 1994 or so because I had to help implement it in Illinois. Not just an application for a driver's license, but for any government benefit (there may have been a few exceptions). Should've heard me explain some of the "residence" issues to the State Board of Elections; for example, a person in a state facility for the developmentally disabled, which under State law is considered a "nursing facility", would be a resident/voter at that location, but because a state facility for the mentally ill is considered a hospital and nobody is a resident of a hospital, each person in such a facility would be entitled to an absentee ballot from the county in which they last had (and, legally, still have) residence. "What?", they responded, "Persons in a mental hospital can vote?" To which I said, "There's no mental capacity test for voting anymore. Just look at the Chicago City Council."

[moira finnie]

The only difference is that the cynical and apathetic sit idly by and are either skeptical of supposed "progress" and choose not to involve themselves or are oblivious to the damning nature of politics, whereas the trusting and compassionate willfully engage themselves in a disgusting act called government which has never once proven itself to work in the entire history of mankind.

To wit: O!, my friend, they've done just as much damage as trust and compassion! To pretend otherwise, as the sarcastic edge to an otherwise valid statement implies, is frankly dangerous

Bryce, old bean,
Does this mean that you are, at least at heart, an anarchist, or a libertarian?

Sorry if I came across as sarcastic about the cynical and the apathetic. Those folks have been my dearest friends during my life, and, btw, it's occurred to me on several occasions that those who, in the words of Yeats, "are filled with passionate intensity" and are certain that they are right, have done just as much, and perhaps at times, more harm as the our pals, the cynics. I prefer to be one of the cautiously optimistic, aka the skeptics with a philopsophical gleam in their eye.

Btw, I think most people would like to be anarchists at heart, but have gotten used to the little things in life that come with organization, like relatively clean running water, a job, a house to live in, and a police and fire dept. who come when you call. That may sound materialistic, but so be it. Life comes down to surprising little.

Of course, If the poo hits the fan soon, life will come down to even less.

I think the attitude of indifference is bcause we have had this process in place for 240 years and are under no threat for it to be changed. Maybe that hasn't always been the case elsewhere.

Chris,
I believe that your comment about taking the voting process for granted among Americans is so apt. Amazing how an invasion or two can make people appreciate their rights.

I would like to see more civics training starting in grammar school, field trips to the polls on voting days, election day on a weekend, and polls open from 6am to 12pm staggered across the country on presidential election days so that those lunkheads on tv would stop reading exit polls on air before people have had a chance to vote out West as they've continued to do since 2000, despite their empty promises and hiding behind the first amendment.

These seem like pretty small goals but until they are politically advantageous somehow, I don't think that this will happen.

[movieman1957]

For anyone interested here is a comparison of the two candidates and their positions on various topics.

http://townhall.com/news/politics-elect ... the_issues

I thought maybe those of you in other parts of the world might find it helpful.

[jdb1]

Moira, I certainly agree that the lack of "civics" education in schools these days has added to voter apathy. Students don't have much respect for our system of government, in part because they don't understand it.

I really do chafe at those who are quick to call anyone with an altruistic slant on life "naive." Perhaps they are confusing naivete with enthusiasm, or positivism. Positivism is not a crime, it is not naive and it is not something easily to put into practice. It takes discipline to stay positive and look forward. Some people seem to be born on the negative side of things, and take everything very hard; I'm not one of them. But neither am I some golly-gee-whizz Pangloss. I've been knocked around by life too much for that. Let me quote some verse, too: "It's easier to say you won't/Than it is to feel you can/It's easier to drag your feet/Than it is to be a man." [George Harrison]

If I didn't honestly believe that there is always something to look forward to in life, no matter how small, I couldn't be the person I am. As you say, it is indeed the little things that keep us going. If there is a even a chance that the Democrats can put through a fraction of the changes they are promising, there will be millions of people who will be better off than they are now (including me, I might add). That's something to look forward to, and that's a chance I don't want to let go by.

[charliechaplinfan]

Judith, I'm with you on the lunch hours. What lunch hours? It's the norm here time taken out for lunch means time you have to work back at night. You don't like it? Fine, we'll find someone that does.

Here, here about news reporting. It's true we only hear what is bad about other countries or contoversial. We don't hear any of the good stuff or the heart warming stuff. I never knew that Paul Newman was such a great guy. A pity we had to wait until he died.

Again I find myself agreeing with you Judith. It is those little things in life that make life so worthwhile. A smile or a laugh can smooth over life's difficulties. Talking with you guys is one of the things I do that makes my existence more enjoyable

[mrsl]

Your dismay at my comments about lunch and breaks sent me to the telephone for a couple of hours to see if things had changed so drastically since my retirement. Old friends who still work at the world-wide department store I ended my 'career' at, still have the very structured timed lunches and breaks. Office people are a little less regulated, breaks aren't actually timed because you can usually sit back at any time of day for 5 or 10 minutes and clear your head, but lunches are definitely your time, and you do NOT work them at the end of the day (I can't believe you do CCFan).

CCFan: For all of the food items the Newman company sells, Bar-B-Q sauce, salad dressings, etc. all proceeds go to various charities for children. Some are hospitals, some are foreign countries, but proceeds are 100% given away.

Anne

[jdb1]

Your dismay at my comments about lunch and breaks sent me to the telephone for a couple of hours to see if things had changed so drastically since my retirement. Old friends who still work at the world-wide department store I ended my 'career' at, still have the very structured timed lunches and breaks. Office people are a little less regulated, breaks aren't actually timed because you can usually sit back at any time of day for 5 or 10 minutes and clear your head, but lunches are definitely your time, and you do NOT work them at the end of the day (I can't believe you do CCFan).

CCFan: For all of the food items the Newman company sells, Bar-B-Q sauce, salad dressings, etc. all proceeds go to various charities for children. Some are hospitals, some are foreign countries, but proceeds are 100% given away.

Anne

Ah, well, Anne - the thought that someone, somewhere, still gets formal breaks from the workday makes me happy. I still sometimes think fondly back to a job I had at a publisher when I was first starting out, about 35 years ago, where there were morning and afternoon breaks, and the "coffee lady" came around with her cart. Those were the days, all right. But taking 5 or 10 minutes here and there to clear your head and rub your eyes so they start to focus again is hardly a coffee break. The reason I can visit SSO during the day is that I long ago mastered the art of talking on the phone and typing at the same time. Only now, the phone isn't used all that much any more, so I had to learn the skill of seamlessly switching from my office email to the SSO site, while also doing my filing and processing the bills. Remember also that in offices of the kind I've worked at for so many years, there is no union presence -- we are left to fend for ourselves.

*************************************************************

OK, now: The Great VP Debate has come to pass. Let's hear your impressions.

[srowley75]

Totally OT, but I think it's funny that a thread emphatically titled "ENOUGH!!!" has gone on for 20 pages.

-Stephen

[moira finnie]

I really do chafe at those who are quick to call anyone with an altruistic slant on life "naive."

I think after a certain point as an adult you have to choose to be an optimist, which is not a naive choice, but a hopeful one, Judith. It may seem archaic, but, this entire country, every artistic, scientific and social breakthrough of mankind came out of optimism by people finding imaginative ways to cope with this rough world. Occasionally people did these things for love as well as survival, a means to increase their purse, their self-esteem and status.

Re: Breaks & Lunches
At all my jobs in the blue collar world, these were looked on as evil necessities (due to labor laws) and were resented by management. In my later jobs in the corporate world, these were something that many people took advantage of, (especially smokers. sorry, but true), and I never felt entirely guiltless taking them due to my early experiences. Now I think that they may help concentration, and overall health of workers.

[ChiO]

I think after a certain point as an adult you have to choose to be an optimist, which is not a naive choice, but a hopeful one

That and Bryce's comments have reminded me of useful definitions:

Optimist: A person who believes this is the best of all possible worlds.
Pessimist: A person who believes the Optimist is correct.

And that's why I love film noir.

[bryce]

Regarding the debates: Biden came across as an educated partisan jerk whilst Palin came across as the sort of psychotic apocalyptist that believes her ancestors walked with the dinosaurs (I didn't know that she and McCain were related - zing!).

Regarding McCain and Obama's stances on various issues, I think they were best summed up by a parody site I visit:

Code: Select all

McCain's Stances:
* Abortion: I'M A WAR HERO
* American principles: I'M A WAR HERO
* Civil rights: I'M A WAR HERO
* Cylons: I'M A WAR HERO
* Disabilities: I'M A WAR HERO
* Economy: I'M A WAR HERO "I'm suspending my campaign. I'm cold and wolves are after me"
* Education: I'M A WAR HERO
* Energy: I'M A WAR HERO
* Environment: JURY RIG IT
* Ethics: I'M A WAR HERO
* Family: BREED FASTER THAN THE MINORITIES!
* Fiscal: I'M A WAR HERO
* Foreign Policy: I'M A WAR HERO, AND I'LL BOMB THE ASIANS
* Gun Control: I'M A WAR HERO
* Health care: I'M A WAR HERO
* Homeland Security: I'M A WAR HERO
* Immigration: I'M A WAR HERO
* Iraq: I'M A WAR HERO
* Monogamy: I'M A WAR HERO
* Political Experience : I'M A WAR HERO
* Poverty: I'M A WAR HERO
* Prostitution: I'M A WAR HERO
* Rural: I'M A WAR HERO
* Service: I'M A WAR HERO
* Seniors & Social Security: I'M A WAR HERO
* Technology: I'M A WAR HERO
* Use of the I'M A WAR HERO
* Veterans: I'M A WAR HERO
* War Heroes: I'M A WAR HERO

Code: Select all

Obama's Stances:
# American principles: CHANGE
# Civil rights: CHANGE
# Disabilities: CHANGE
# Economy: JURY RIG IT
# Education: CHANGE
# Energy & Environment: INFLATE YOUR TIRES
# Ethics: CHANGE
# Family: CHANGE
# Fiscal: CHANGE
# Foreign Policy: CHANGE
# Iraq: CHANGE
# Gun Control: CHANGE
# Health care: CHANGE
# His own Mind: CHANGE
# Homeland Security: CHANGE
# Immigration: CHANGE
# Political Experience: CHANGE
# Poverty: CHANGE
# Prostitution: CHANGE
# Rural: FARM MORE CHICKEN
# Service: CHANGE
# Seniors & Social Security: CHAAAAAAANGE
# Slave Ownership: CHANGE
# Technology: CHANGE
# Veterans: CHANGE
# Change: CHANGE
# Abortion: ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE

A bit off-color, but it does put a humorous slant on the drums they've both endlessly, tirelessly, breathlessly been banging.

Does this mean that you are, at least at heart, an anarchist, or a libertarian?

No, I'm an autarchist. To borrow a line from one of my favorite shows, "I reject your reality and substitute my own." I acknowledge whatever rules it is you feel the need to live by, while I will continue to live by my own.

--

A lot of you are taking very liberal interpretations of my positions and views. To think that I do nothing more than post on a message board about my thoughts is insulting (I say in my best John Cleese accent) - though I understand where it comes from with all of the blogs out there. Yet have I ever once been listened to? What Senator is crazy enough to approach the Congress with the viewpoint of complete and utter dissolution of the high pay representatives earn (if they want to govern so badly, let them pay for things), creating a branch of congress whose only purpose is to retract laws by a one/third vote (if a law is so crap that it barely only passed 2/3 majority, there's a good chance at least a third hate it enough to retract it), and etc.? That'd be pure lunacy! No one would ever march in their own private little clubhouse and deliver a speech to tear it down.

I think we've reached the end of my posturing. About the time I'm asked "What do you propose as an alternative?" I tend to bug out, because I'm not proposing anything in the first place. I live by rules I set for myself, no one else's. I break laws I see as unjust. If you want to call that a "hopeless, every man for himself" scenario, you're more than welcome to, but again, I'm no murderer nor thief, and I wouldn't expect anyone in this country to become one should you suddenly place the burden of responsibility on their own shoulders as opposed to some watchdog's.

You use the civil rights example as a form of peaceful revolution made within the system. Sister (I write that with a smile on my face!), I wasn't alive back then, and I do my fair share of hating on white flight and the white mentality of the 50s and 60s, but I'm not sure anyone would consider the civil rights movement a "peaceful" victory made within the system. I'd say just about the only reason they ever won their rights was because this country was tearing itself apart from the inside, it was facing urban warfare in nearly every major metropolitan area and the public - white, black, yellow, blue and invisible - was quickly tiring of the whole damned thing. The statement LBJ made when sealing the deal, (inexact, sorry): "With the stroke of this pen I deliver the South to the Republicans for the next forty years," is at once a condemnation of the hypocrisy of the voting public and support of a people having finally getting what they deserve, nearly two hundred years after Thomas Jefferson had tried to give it to them.

I'll leave you all with a parting thought: Why do we need government - let's just cut out my more severe tendencies and say big government - to ensure clean drinking water, fire department, police department and more? All throughout history and indeed today in small municipalities these are achieved, many on a volunteer basis, all working together for the betterment of the community. That's what we need. People working together for the community, for each other, on things that really matter. Give me a pioneer society and you'll give me the closest thing to perfection I could ever experience. Explore time and history and you'll see that the only time people are truly free is when they work together in polite society - politeness enforced by moral and tradition as opposed to threat of consequence - without meddling intervention from "authorities" and yammerheads and busybodies.

--

Synnove, it's perfectly relevant, just as your rant is! I know and admire quite a bit about Sweden and the Scandinavian countries in general - and I don't give a hoot what our news has to say, either! - and I wasn't trying to do anything other than point out that even the best of countries, with the best of systems and the best of intentions, can do some really rather terrible things. I in no way, shape, form or fashion think that the law will stand up to the people, let alone the European Union, but it is very telling of the pressure that outside influences have been placing on your government lately. Only in Sweden could the "pirate party" have even garnered votes, let alone such a high percentage (all right, it was half a percent, but the point is it got them) of them. But it's all for naught, in a way, until many in your current government are voted out (do believe the "royal" family are as big a distraction away from the "real" government as I and many others do?). The same for our government, yes? And that's the point. No matter how many people vote, no matter how "educated" people are, a government is still comprised of men, functioning nearly autonomously (via committee, how fun), and men are corrupt, greedy liars when it suits them. In positions of power, it suits them quite often.

Our dissolution with the appeasement process is simply that we recognize what a failure our own government is. Many on both sides recognize that only circumstantially - that is, until their own party has a chance to win - but I think that deep down everyone knows our system, as is, is severely broken. It has been beaten and battered for so long by people pandering to special interests and by one group of people trying to impose their will on the other that there is no remnants left of the country founded two hundred thirty two years ago. Hell, the sham that is the stock market is all but proof that an elite few control this entire country - as it is anything but a free market.

--

So, I ask: What are we to do? Thus far I've come under a lot of fire for saying "the government stinks, let's have a do-over if we get the chance and if not, I'll be next door having a beer" when many of you are bickering over technicalities and irrelevancies. What are you going to do to change things you don't like? Vote? Write to your elected representative - a person who you have to know is most likely part of the problem and not part of the solution? In twelve days I'll be 25 and I'm tired of living in a country full of folks who see in full color but vote in monochrome or two-tone. At this point I'd do everything I could to get the man elected who stepped up and said "I will do absolutely nothing for the next four years, and if that is too much, I'll seek re-election and then do even less."

[jdb1]

In twelve days I'll be 25 . . . .

Aha. Now I get it. When I was 12 days shy of 25, the world seemed an overwhelming, monolithic, unworkable and unshaded bugabear to me, too. If you're lucky, Bryce, you'll get over it. Check back with us when you're 12 days shy of 50.

And, see what ChiO wrote below? That little joke about an optimist believing this is the best of all possible worlds? That's the problem - optimism is a misunderstood and much-maligned phenomenon (no fault of ChiO's of course; he's just written an aphorism that most people think is true). On optimist doesn't think everything as it exists is great; she knows that everything as it exists can be made better. There is a distinction there, and it's far from a small one.

I have spent my adult life speaking out to authority and, at least trying to make my voice heard, for myself and on behalf of others unable to, or too shy to speak. I have been, on occasion, dare I say it, a community organizer. I don't see the need to compare credentials here. I'm much older than you; I've seen more, I've done more, I understand how the world works, and I know what I'm talking about. I don't back away from confrontation in writing or in person. I don't speak up unless I have something to say, and I'm fully prepared to back my contentions, be it with my fellow SSO-ers, the mayor, a senator, a CEO or the CIC him/herself. It's not that I'm convinced I'm right about everything -- it's that I have confidence that I have as much right as anyone else to be heard.

My side of this exchange is closed; I've said all I have to say. Thank you, Bryce, for listening to me, and for your input.

[bryce]

Ouch.

Judith, I'm sorry. My political writing is always somewhere between half-serious and seriously half-baked. Though I know it to be something you dislike, I have to play the "I was joking" card on much of what I wrote. I would never want to belittle you and your thoughts and accomplishments, nor anyone else's, frustrated as they may make me, for that matter, nor would I want to compete and compare credentials, and if my crap impersonations of Oscar Wilde's acerbic wit seem mean and personal because, that's my fault, as I should have stopped and corrected myself.

I'm not good at being diplomatic and I don't expect you to want to continue this line of discussion, but at least know I apologize for being dense and dismissive.

[ken123]

[quote="jdb1"][quote=" I have been, on occasion, dare I say it, a community organizer




Judith,
Dont tell Sarah Palin.